Hardcore Ethics

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Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby thinkdr » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:16 am

Formal Axiology, among many other functions, serves as the meta-ethics for the Unified Theory of Ethics.

Although this is an over-simplified explanation of Formal Axiology, it may prove helpful: click on this link, safe to open –
https://www.cleardirection.com/docs/formalaxiology.asp

Also see this account simplified for the layperson: https://valueinsights.com/axiology/the- ... -axiology/

And check out this insightful discussion HERE: https://valueinsights.com/axiology/meas ... tangibles/

To see the original text, by the philosopher who inspired it all, read this book: Robert S. Hartman – The Structure of Value.(1967).
Ask your local library to get it for you from the nearest university.


Your impressions, reflections, queries?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you Google the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
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Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby thinkdr » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:48 am

It would be interesting to learn whether any one of you followed up on the resources listed in the previous post -- and if so, did you, as a result get to Know Thyself better? Did you learn something from your studies of value theory? Did you take a values inventory? Are you now more aware of your capacities, value-insight scores, etc.?

Let's hear some feedback !

Okay?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you Google the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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Posts: 701
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby thinkdr » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:27 am

Most branches of Philosophy are about conceptual analysis and other thought processes, about the search for truth, about extracting the wisdom from a scenario or piece of writing, about the joy of exercising one’s mind, about offering a new fresh perspective. One branch, however, is exceptional

Ethics is not only about all of the above but it also has a practical side; it is meant to be applied to daily life, to set a shining example of ethical living. For if people are going to learn to be more-ethical it is by seeing a role-model or example. …since that speaks “louder than words.” Ethics is oriented toward practice as well as it is toward theory.

That is why I was thrilled to discover a non-profit organization, headquartered in Silicon Valley = San Jose to be specific – which is putting Ethics and human development into practice. It has marvelous values and it translates them into policies and activities. It does not merely think deeply about values such as democracy and sustainability; it engages in advocacy; it works out the agenda, the practice – which is an integral part of Ethics. It spells out “how to get from here to there.” Most ethical theories fail in that respect. This website exemplifies hardcore ethics!

Visit http://www.humanagenda.net/policy-agenda

And see especially the first paragraph here to learn the core values guiding the moral applications: http://www.humanagenda.net/claro

What do you think?
Is this ethics in action? Does it solve problems? Is it worth it? Could it contribute to making progress?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you Google the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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Posts: 701
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby thinkdr » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:07 am

Well worth watching!!!

When Ethics is applied to Economics we get this significant knowledge (in a brief talk) that a businessman - who also is a pretty-good teacher of Economics – provides for us. Be sure to view this insightful video in order to gain the new knowledge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th3KE_H27bs

It gives a capitalist’s perspective on why Neo-liberalism is a faulty ideology based on unsound ideas; and we are informed as to what we can do to counteract such misleading doctrines.

We can choose to fix the prevailing economic arrangements that aren’t working well. We can consciously choose to make things better, and this capitalist explains clearly how.

The capitalist giving the Ted Talk is named Nick Hanauer, and, incidentally, he is a billionaire. {Again, here is that link:}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th3KE_H27bs


Please tell us what you thought of this presentation. Did you note how it applied concepts from Ethics? Did you detect the ethical principles and ideals that served as its basic foundation? Is Nick H. making workable proposals? Would those proposals he makes be more-properly be labeled 'Reforms' or 'as 'Radical changes' ...or neither?
What are your views as to what would result if Ethics theory were applied to Economics?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you Google the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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Posts: 701
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby promethean75 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:21 pm

Great video, doc!

A capitalist comes clean. This is like a black swan event. I can hardly believe my ears.
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Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby thinkdr » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:25 pm

promethean75 wrote:Great video, doc!
A capitalist comes clean. This is like a black swan event. I can hardly believe my ears.


LOL. Thanks for some positive reinforcement !!

And I'm glad you enjoyed it.


Did anyone else view that "black swan"? What were your impressions?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you Google the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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Posts: 701
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby thinkdr » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:31 pm

In case you never got around to viewing the TED Talk on You Tube, here are some of the points made by Nick Hanauer, the successful businessman.

Innovation is a process which will solve human problems. ...innovation plus cooperation results in increasing prosperity for all.

An effective business is not a jungle; it's a garden: a garden of cooperation.

Inclusion is the answer. Inclusive cooperating teams will create economic growth and prosperity. This is true for competition among corporations and even among nations.

Being rapacious means being psychopathic; greed is NOT good !!



Readers: Do you agree that his approach to business and to economics is
applied Ethics? From your understanding of the new paradigm, Ethics, can it absorb within itself everything that Nick is teaching about Economics? I believe
it can, but I'd like to hear from you.
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you Google the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
Thinker
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby thinkdr » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:30 pm

.
THIS IS A SURVEY:
Do you hold that ethics is learned:

A. Only at “your mother’s knee,” that is, at home when you are young

B. In a classroom when one is either a senior in high-school and/or it can be taught to a college student

C. Both of the above A and B

D. Neither A nor B, because it is genetic

E. All of the above

F. None of the above.

Please let us know how you vote in this survey.
Which option do you choose?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you Google the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
Thinker
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby thinkdr » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:10 am

.
Well, let's forget about the survey. No one wants to vote, it seems.

One bright young philosopher, writing at a forum, argues that “morality is about removing trolley problems from every-day life for as many people as possible. He claims that Ethics is a study that removes having to choose – as we go about our daily lives - between the well-being of you-versus-other-individuals.
It’s us vs. them!
But then he clarifies his position when he writes: "Due to food shortages people are resorting to violence. Therefore, in order to decrease violence, it is morally right to ensure an increase in food supply/production." He offers statistics, and a bell-curve diagram, to back up his claim.

Do you agree that that’s all there is to ethics-theory

Alternatively, another claim the young man made, is that ethics is only concerned with negotiating what is “harm” and how to minimize it?

Are his efforts at reductionism credible? Can you accept that these are the only concerns of a good Ethics theory?

If not, why not?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you Google the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
Thinker
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:22 pm

thinkdr wrote:In case you never got around to viewing the TED Talk on You Tube, here are some of the points made by Nick Hanauer, the successful businessman.

Innovation is a process which will solve human problems. ...innovation plus cooperation results in increasing prosperity for all.

An effective business is not a jungle; it's a garden: a garden of cooperation.

Inclusion is the answer. Inclusive cooperating teams will create economic growth and prosperity. This is true for competition among corporations and even among nations.

Being rapacious means being psychopathic; greed is NOT good !!



Readers: Do you agree that his approach to business and to economics is
applied Ethics? From your understanding of the new paradigm, Ethics, can it absorb within itself everything that Nick is teaching about Economics? I believe
it can, but I'd like to hear from you.


One tricky area is deciding what is greed. Also earlier in the quote 'effective' is not defined, here at least. Effective at what. Unfortunately greedy companies are quite effective at some things.

(it's tangential but I dislike the metaphors. Gardens are good because they are cooperative, jungles are bad because they are not. In a garden one could argue that the home owner/gardener is deciding what life is valuable using purely selfish criteria. A jungle, while obviously having a lot of competetion, also has a lot of symbiosis. There is some of this in a garden of course, but always related to the desire of the king. A jungle has hierarchies but also horizontal relationships. Anyway I could go far along on my issues with this metaphor, but it really does relate to all sorts of fallacies about civilization vs. nature, ideas of nature as primarily competitive and the blind spot of humanism as a kind of speciesism, all being ironic in context)

we end on this 'being rapacious is psychopathic'

but that's more or less cheating. You have a pejorative word 'rapacious' being defined by another pejorative term psychopathic.

Right off that simply alienates anyone who thinks competition is or can be good and also thinks that competition need not be rapacious. the whole quote seems to assume that cooperation and competition are mutually exclusive. Perhaps he tried to demonstrate this elsewhere.

I guess my take on it is that it is propaganda and not really much of an argument.

and hey I am critical of corporations and tend to think of them as regions of fascism as they are currently protected and conceived under the law, with rights and reduced responsibilities compared to how they were first conceived.

The trick is to show, to my mind how competition, desire and cooperation come to some balance.
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Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby thinkdr » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:23 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:

thinkdr wrote:Innovation is a process which will solve human problems. ...innovation plus cooperation results in increasing prosperity for all.

An effective business is .. a garden of cooperation....Inclusion is the answer....cooperating teams will create economic growth and prosperity ..
greed is NOT good !!


One tricky area is deciding what is greed. Also earlier in the quote 'effective' is not defined, here at least. ...Unfortunately greedy companies are quite effective at some things.
we end on this 'being rapacious is psychopathic' but that's more or less cheating. You have a pejorative word 'rapacious' being defined by another pejorative term psychopathic.

Right off that simply alienates anyone who thinks competition is or can be good and also thinks that competition need not be rapacious. the whole quote seems to assume that cooperation and competition are mutually exclusive.

and hey I am critical of corporations and tend to think of them as regions of fascism as they are currently protected and conceived under the law, with rights and reduced responsibilities compared to how they were first conceived.

The trick is to show, to my mind how competition, desire and cooperation come to some balance.


Hi, Karpel

Nice to hear from you again! Thank you for responding, and for keeping the dialogue going. I shall take up your points one at a time.

Greed is an obsessive-compulsive neurosis; this neurosis is usually seen when persons collects old magazines, or newspapers, and when you enter their room you note that these papers are piled right up to the ceiling. In the case of greed the urge is to collect MONEY.
:wink: [How can a person be expected to scrape by on only one-hundred-million?! He has to become a billionaire!]

When I use the word "effective" I mean by it: beneficial to enhancing quality-of-life, applying Intrinsic valuation to the situation.
Greedy individuals and companies are quite efficient at some things. {In my writings I have made this distinction between the concepts "efficient" and "effective." The former is Extrinsic value, while the lattter is Intrinsic value. I-value is worth uncountably-more than E-value. (This is another-- a more academic - way of saying that love is more valuable than savoir-faire.)

Yes, I believe Nick Hanauer intended those words (rapaciousness is pathology) to be perjorative. It was not so much a definition as it was an attribution. He was describing greed as sociopathic, and used the word 'psychopathic' instead. The point is he was emotional about other businessmen having that neurosis called 'greed.' He feels it gives business a bad name.

Nowhere in his ten-minute talk did he give (me, at least) the impression he is against competition.

In the booklet, THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS, the first link in the signature below, the final pages are devoted to the topic: competition. It discusses contests, bees, and rivalry of various sorts. It distinguishes ruthless rivalry from healthy competition, and gives an example, in the form of a story, of a healthy competition. That is one where everyone wins.

It recommends that we innovate new contests which, as a result of such competition, the world is better off afterwards.

And I am all for getting into balance, as a glance at my writings would show.


Comments? Questions? Analysis? Discussion?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you Google the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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Posts: 701
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Hardcore Ethics

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:40 pm

thinkdr wrote:
Greed is an obsessive-compulsive neurosis; this neurosis is usually seen when persons collects old magazines, or newspapers, and when you enter their room you note that these papers are piled right up to the ceiling. In the case of greed the urge is to collect MONEY.
:wink: [How can a person be expected to scrape by on only one-hundred-million?! He has to become a billionaire!]
I'm with you here, however when we look out at society competition and greed and cooperation can mix be separate, overlap.

When I use the word "effective" I mean by it: beneficial to enhancing quality-of-life, applying Intrinsic valuation to the situation.
Greedy individuals and companies are quite efficient at some things. {In my writings I have made this distinction between the concepts "efficient" and "effective." The former is Extrinsic value, while the lattter is Intrinsic value. I-value is worth uncountably-more than E-value. (This is another-- a more academic - way of saying that love is more valuable than savoir-faire.)
Efficient usually means getting things done with low expense, quickly, low resource use. Effective usually means how much you can count on it working. A bulldozer is extremely effective at getting through a doorway, but not so efficient.

A greedy company can generally point at their products and services. Some greedy companies even make very good products and employ a bunch of people.

Yes, I believe Nick Hanauer intended those words (rapaciousness is pathology) to be perjorative. It was not so much a definition as it was an attribution. He was describing greed as sociopathic, and used the word 'psychopathic' instead. The point is he was emotional about other businessmen having that neurosis called 'greed.' He feels it gives business a bad name.
Sure.

Nowhere in his ten-minute talk did he give (me, at least) the impression he is against competition.
OK but then this seems implicit when greed is being defined as opposed to cooperation. Though I did reread the quote and it seems like he is viewing competition positively. Which means he is not seeing them as mutually exclusive. Good.

But we need to get under the generalities. One can be greedy and also cooperate. In fact a corporation pretty much has to. With its suppliers, customers, employees, the state and so on. We might argue that there is coercion or imbalance in what they are calling cooperation.

How do we distinguish between cooperation that is fair and not. And even with greedy people, some of them actually can be quite fair. This may fit their business model. They may think it works. Or works in many areas of their corporation.

IN a sense I am saying that it seems to me there is a category error, or several, in what you quoted.

Even greed and cooperation are not mutually exclusive. In fact to be effectively greedy you have to cooperate with people, some of them perhaps greedy.

We have a compulsion (Greed)

and we have a pattern of interaction (Cooperation).

They aren't opposed. They are in different categories.

And then there will be a strong subjective element in what different people consider the drive of a CEO or shareholder.
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