Existence is Perfect

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Existence is Perfect

Postby Certainly real » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:29 pm

Omnipotence and Omniscience

1) There is existence
2) Everything that exists, does so only in existence
3) We are fully dependent on existence.
4) This logically entails that all minds are fully limited to what existence allows (if you can meaningfully imagine something, it’s because existence makes it possible for you. Existence makes it a meaningful item of thought or imagination)

5) Anything that is either meaningful or comprehensible necessarily belongs to existence (existence accommodates it. It is either a part of existence, or it is a part of existence’s potential to produce it. As in it either exists or it is hypothetically possible for it to exist), anything that is either irrational or incomprehensible is necessarily non-existent (existence does not accommodate it. It cannot be created. It is meaningless. It is absurd; like a married bachelor or a square circle)

6) "infinity", "omnipresence", "omnipotence" and "omniscience", are all rational. They are not like a square-circle. They are meaningful concepts. So existence accommodates these concepts. Either something can come to possess these traits, or something possesses these traits.

7) All-mightiness and All-knowingness are only hypothetically possible of that which is All-present (to be almighty one needs to have reach and access to everything. One needs to be omnipresent to be omnipotent). Either (7.1) it is hypothetically possible for something to become All-mighty and All-knowing or (7.2) something is All-mighty and All-knowing.

Nothing can become omnipresent from a non-omnipresent state. Nothing can become infinite from a finite state. Given 7, nothing can become almighty from a non-almighty state. Therefore 7.1 is false. It is hypothetically impossible for something to become almighty. Given that 7.1 is false and that 5 and 6 are true, 7.2 must be true. Something has always been and will always be omnipotent (almighty) and omniscient (all-knowing).

Existence Is Perfect

1) A true and objective definition of perfection is logically impossible within imperfect boundaries. If something exists and another thing is better than it, then by definition, it is not perfect because there are better things or beings than it.

2) Where the experiences are good (happiness is constant), it is good and better to be a self-aware being than to be an insentient being. Where the experiences are bad, it is better to be an insentient being than a self-aware being. So a definition of Perfect logically requires good self-awareness.

3) There is nothing better than that which is perfect. So that which is perfect is by definition always happy, perfectly satisfied and self-aware. A happy self-aware triangle is better than an insentient triangle or an unhappy self-aware triangle regardless of whether it’s a fully accurate triangle or not (by fully accurate I mean it matches the definition of triangle with full accuracy…it has 3 sides that are straight with the total angles adding to 180 degrees) Calling a triangle Perfect is like calling an imperfect or incomplete thing Perfect or Complete. This is defining Perfection within imperfection. This is defining Perfect imperfectly or incompletely. This is defining the best possible imperfect thing. It is not defining the best possible thing which is what a pure definition of Perfect requires.

4) There can be nothing better than God. Only God is always completely satisfied, almighty, infinite, all-knowing and so on. Only God has all the traits that Perfection by definition logically requires. A simple question of which is better…God or a triangle? Demonstrates that only one is Perfect whilst the other has never been perfect and will never be perfect

5) Perfect is a meaningful concept. Therefore either it is hypothetically possible for something to become perfect, or something is perfect
That which is Perfect is by definition; Infinite, Omnipresent. It has no beginning and no end. It has always been perfect and will always be perfect. Nothing can become infinite from a non-infinite state. Nothing can become Omnipresent from a non-omnipresent state. Therefore, nothing can become Perfect from an imperfect state.

6) Given 1-5 Existence is Perfect. Has always been Perfect. Will always be Perfect.
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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby barbarianhorde » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:29 pm

Okay so since I can imagine this bridge in front of me turning to sugar and running around as the marshmallow man existence necessarily is able to produce that.

I don't think so. But good try dude.

Yawn
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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby Certainly real » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:03 pm

barbarianhorde wrote:Okay so since I can imagine this bridge in front of me turning to sugar and running around as the marshmallow man existence necessarily is able to produce that.

I don't think so. But good try dude.

Yawn


It's a hypothetical possibility as far as we know. It's not like a married-bachelor which we know is impossible.
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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby barbarianhorde » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:04 pm

Speak for yourself.
I understand the world, I intuit physics and whatever paranormal shit is out there is equally understandable.

Never build on a "this seems nonsensical but I cant disprove it by what I know" thesis.

Find a "this is absolutely revolutionarily certain" one.

The sport of philosophy is not exploiting boredom but inventing lightning. Thats as well as I can put it.

"perfect" is just one thing in all the things that exist. Existence is perfect, imperfect, good, bad, beautiful, ugly. Cucumbers, raisin, reason, plague, withering smile of an old tart who never could have what she wanted and the gulping lust of a pretty 5 year old in the summer.
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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby barbarianhorde » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:10 pm

Im just saying don't be arrogant.

If existence were perfect it wouldn't require of us to weigh our decisions.

My opinion is that perfection is the objective of genius, and genius is the only way existence could find a way to stand against the likelihood of nonexistence.

I suppose I respect your wish that the universe is perfect and your attempt to prove it.
But you must make it perfect, not prove that the situation you have on your hands already is the utmost of all it could ever be.

Proof is always an experience.
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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby barbarianhorde » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:14 pm

It's a hypothetical possibility as far as we know. It's not like a married-bachelor which we know is impossible.


You wouldn't go into a football game with that attitude.
Philosophy is not less strictly disciplined than a top football team, but more so.

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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby promethean75 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:59 pm

"It's a hypothetical possibility as far as we know. It's not like a married-bachelor which we know is impossible."

The gentleman speaker is only saying the truth of such a hypothetical would be probable and not demonstrative (using hume's fork), and that as such it wouldn't be logically impossible like a deductive contradiction.

The gentleman speaker may continue. *gavel*
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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby surreptitious75 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:07 am

Existence is neither perfect or imperfect in any absolute sense as it just is and nothing else
For perfection is an imaginary concept that does not exist in reality only within imagination
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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby Certainly real » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:35 pm

There is a clear distinction between that which is hypothetically possible, that which is necessary and that which is absurd. If it's without a contradiction or a paradox, it's acceptable. If it contains a paradox or a contradiction it's unacceptable.

Omnipotence can't be both meaningful and hypothetically possible. It's either meaningless like a square-circle, or it is necessarily a trait of Existence. Because it is hypothetically impossible for something to become omnipresent from a non-omnipresent state.

As for Perfect, it is clear that there is nothing better than being God and that there is nothing better than God. Infinite, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnibenevolent towards good, Omnimalevolent towards evil, Always Perfectly Satisfied doing whatever It Wants and whatever It Wants always being perfect. Take any of these traits aways and you have something that can be better. Take any of these traits away and you have imperfection that can be bettered. God Has Perfect Desires and Preferences (omnibenevolence towards good and omnimalevolence towards evil, creativity etc.)

As imperfect beings, we exist perfectly because perfection is omnipresent. If we had all the premised with regards to why someone gets treated good or bad or what their final outcome will be, we'd come to realised that it was perfection or Justice all along. We don't have all the premises, so we get fooled by the appearance of things. Existence Being Perfect is apriori necessary.
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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby Certainly real » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:41 pm

surreptitious75 wrote:Existence is neither perfect or imperfect in any absolute sense as it just is and nothing else
For perfection is an imaginary concept that does not exist in reality only within imagination


The mind or the imagination makes clear distinctions between that which is necessary, that which is hypothetically possible and that which is absurd or paradoxical. Existence not being perfect is paradoxical. Existence Being Perfect is necessary...not just a hypothetical possibility because that which is logically required of Perfection (for example Omnipotence and Omnipresence) is not something that is hypothetically possible. It's either absurd or necessary. Because it has meaning, it's not absurd like a married-bachelor. So it's necessarily true of Existence. You cannot have something that is meaningful and not paradoxical yet be absurd at the same time. So because it's not a hypothetical possibility (you cannot have something become perfect from an imperfect state...as you cannot have something become omnipresent from a non-omnipresent state) it is necessarily true.
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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby barbarianhorde » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:55 pm

Certainly real wrote:There is a clear distinction between that which is hypothetically possible, that which is necessary and that which is absurd. If it's without a contradiction or a paradox, it's acceptable. If it contains a paradox or a contradiction it's unacceptable.

The idea that the Earth is round was and is still considered absurd by many.

Omnipotence can't be both meaningful and hypothetically possible. It's either meaningless like a square-circle, or it is necessarily a trait of Existence. Because it is hypothetically impossible for something to become omnipresent from a non-omnipresent state.

Okay.

As for Perfect, it is clear that there is nothing better than being God and that there is nothing better than God.

Ah.

]Infinite, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnibenevolent towards good, Omnimalevolent towards evil, Always Perfectly Satisfied doing whatever It Wants and whatever It Wants always being perfect. Take any of these traits aways and you have something that can be better. Take any of these traits away and you have imperfection that can be bettered. God Has Perfect Desires and Preferences (omnibenevolence towards good and omnimalevolence towards evil, creativity etc.)

Dude you just presume the existence of God.
I think God can only be highly imperfect for us to ever experience perfection with him.
He needs to mate with the utmost desire of his creation to meet him to feel what he did.

God is in a phantom world double absence horror nightmare along with his supreme bliss of will. Do you not know that God suffers?

As imperfect beings, we exist perfectly because perfection is omnipresent. If we had all the premised with regards to why someone gets treated good or bad or what their final outcome will be, we'd come to realised that it was perfection or Justice all along. We don't have all the premises, so we get fooled by the appearance of things. Existence Being Perfect is apriori necessary.

Ah, Justice.

I take it you are the Executioner.
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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby surreptitious75 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Certainly real wrote:
surreptitious75 wrote:
Existence is neither perfect or imperfect in any absolute sense as it just is and nothing else
For perfection is an imaginary concept that does not exist in reality only within imagination

The mind or the imagination makes clear distinctions between that which is necessary that which is hypothetically possible and that which is absurd or paradoxical
Existence not being perfect is paradoxical . Existence Being Perfect is necessary not just a hypothetical possibility because that which is logically required of Perfection ( for example Omnipotence and Omnipresence ) is not something that is hypothetically possible . Its either absurd or necessary . Because it has meaning its not absurd like a married bachelor . So it is necessarily true of Existence . You cannot have something that is meaningful and not paradoxical yet be absurd at the same time . So because it is not a hypothetical possibility ( you cannot have something become perfect from an imperfect state ... as you cannot have something become
omnipresent from a non omnipresent state ) it is necessarily true

This is nothing more than philosophical word salad for the existence of God because none of it is actually verifiable
Words like Perfection and Omnipotence and Omniscience look impressive but are not any part of observable reality
This is simply what you believe and that is absolutely fine but beyond that these words have no real meaning at all
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Re: Existence is Perfect

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:36 pm

In the now, modern world the view of perfection is moderated by nihilism, refusing to take account of precedence over the ....sillyness of existential premature joy. The old syllogisms have faded and Schopenhauer has resurfaced its joy in the sadness of gone romantic times.
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