free will

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free will

Postby barbarianhorde » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:42 pm

per definition, rain rolls down the mountainslope

not per definition, feet ascend the mountainslope
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
~ Владимир Ильич Ульянов Ленин

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Re: free will

Postby waechter418 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:21 pm

"Talks about free will are usually motivated by the hope to get wishes fulfilled, but where there is Will there are neither wishes nor hopes."

chapter 4 "Selfrealisation" https://waechter418.wordpress.com/
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Re: free will

Postby promethean75 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:21 am

here's something fun to do that might be derridaian in spirit... kinda like reverse differance. what we can demonstrate is that trains-of-thought carry their own internal aporia-avoidance mechanisms which can be cancelled if the writer is forced to reconfigure any particular instance of text without the support of the entire body of writing. when writer becomes reader, he exits the train-of-thought and might arrive at a particular point in the text at which he would go an entirely different direction. in other words, if the writer doesn't remember what he was thinking before he arrived at point y, he can't be sure he'll end up at the same point z if he is forced to begin at point y without having point x to refer to. let's see if it works.

these excerpts are from the posted link. complete the following sentences without referring back to the text:

1. A relationship (in collective-images represented by rulers and serfs) that seems inevitable, since the strong and the weak forces are________.

2. considering the legions of technologists who, under the guidance of science, invent myriads of apparatuses and instruments to optimise its walls, which are guarded by________.

[cue jeopardy music]
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Re: free will

Postby barbarianhorde » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:41 pm

waechter418 wrote: but where there is Will there are neither wishes nor hopes.

Damn straight.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
~ Владимир Ильич Ульянов Ленин

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Re: free will

Postby Meno_ » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:26 pm

barbarianhorde wrote:
waechter418 wrote: but where there is Will there are neither wishes nor hopes.

Damn straight.


Yeah, to Power.
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Re: free will

Postby waechter418 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:16 pm

Meno_ wrote:
barbarianhorde wrote:
waechter418 wrote: but where there is Will there are neither wishes nor hopes.

Damn straight.


Yeah, to Power.


Power implies capability – and the performance of existence requires a capability that is associated with pride, which in turn connotes nobility manifesting in dignity and generosity – characteristics that have enabled Homo to create splendorous cultures and at the same time to appreciate the capabilities of his fellow-creatures.
As a matter of fact, many cultures praised them – as well as wind, water, volcanoes, trees, planets and other aspects of existence – in temples, myths and works of art, as manifestations of Consciousness.
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Re: free will

Postby waechter418 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:22 pm

waechter418 wrote:"Talks about free will are usually motivated by the hope to get wishes fulfilled, but where there is Will there are neither wishes nor hopes."

chapter 4 "Selfrealisation" https://waechter418.wordpress.com/

Will is absolute - unless subjected to morals & purpose, or otherwise adulterated.

Will cannot be willed, as there are no two Wills.
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Re: free will

Postby promethean75 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:56 pm

In the Egyptian version, Seth divided Osiris and claimed his throne – or pole position – which put him into opposition to Horus


No way, dude. Atari didn't come out with Pole Position until 1982, so there's no way Osiris could have had it... unless he used the stargate to travel into the future... but stargate didn't come out until 1994, so he couldn't have used it, either.
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Re: free will

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:24 pm

waechter418


"Talks about free will are usually motivated by the hope to get wishes fulfilled
,

That might depend on the individual and where the talking is occurring. Yes or No?

If one of those wishes is to see/realize that we are, by right, autonomous people, then I can agree with you.
The other is kind of shallow I think.

but where there is Will there are neither wishes nor hopes."


So then what is its driving force? What is its origin? What did it arise from?
Can you give me an example, a scenario?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: free will

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:39 pm

barbarianhorde,

per definition, rain rolls down the mountainslope


How can that be seen as free will? Rain has no other recourse but to roll down the mountainslope or at any rate to go down it. It is observing the laws of nature.

Now real free will would be if it could go rolling up the mountainslope, going against the grain so to speak.
Is free will or any will really being exercised by your definition?
Now I know I may be wrong in this but somehow I see it differently.
Am I making too big a thing of what encompasses "free will"?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: free will

Postby waechter418 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:20 pm

promethean75 wrote:
In the Egyptian version, Seth divided Osiris and claimed his throne – or pole position – which put him into opposition to Horus


No way, dude. Atari didn't come out with Pole Position until 1982, so there's no way Osiris could have had it... unless he used the stargate to travel into the future... but stargate didn't come out until 1994, so he couldn't have used it, either.


for example: a triangle has 3 a square 4 and a cube 8 poles

(if you can think of a better term, i am open to suggestions, particularly as English is not my native language)
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Re: free will

Postby waechter418 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:41 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:waechter418


"Talks about free will are usually motivated by the hope to get wishes fulfilled
,

That might depend on the individual and where the talking is occurring. Yes or No?

If one of those wishes is to see/realize that we are, by right, autonomous people, then I can agree with you.
The other is kind of shallow I think.

but where there is Will there are neither wishes nor hopes."


So then what is its driving force? What is its origin? What did it arise from?
Can you give me an example, a scenario?


(The following interpretation is taken from "Selfrealisation" chapter 4 - see above)

Will is the force of creation and Love the force that relates (unites) its manifestations.

Will has no cause, nor can it be deduced from effects – Will is cause and effect, both are united through Love.

Will is absolute – unless subjected to morals & purpose, or otherwise adulterated.

Will cannot be willed, as there are no two Wills.
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Re: free will

Postby Exuberant Teleportation » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:19 pm

Going into combat against the elements is a question kind of like, "can manmade arts surpass the artistry of nature?" There are things that are naturally occurring in accordance with the laws of nature, but if we come into contact with God (who is just part of nature), we may receive ideas that go beyond the initial beauty of nature all around us in a harmonious anchor, grounding its treasures into our forefront. There are natural cycles, but there's also whirling vortices that we can tame.
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Nihilus Harnesses Yoda Wisdom viewtopic.php?f=5&t=195214
Kazaam viewtopic.php?f=5&t=195203
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