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There is a change therefore there is a mind

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:53 pm
by bahman
Consider a change in a system, X to Y. X and Y cannot coexist therefore X has to vanishes before Y is caused. But there is nothing when X vanishes and nothingness cannot cause Y. Therefore a mind with the ability to experience, decide and cause, should exist. The mind experiences X, then decide and then cause Y.

Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:25 am
by Prismatic567
Rather is there is an emergence of the mind and consciousness, then there is change.
Change is more of a concept, thus mind-based.

Note Hume's,
i.e. there is cause and effect because there is mind.

Note this clue that change is mind-based;
Akinetopsia (Greek: a for "without", kine for "to move" and opsia for "seeing"), also known as cerebral akinetopsia or motion blindness, is a neuropsychological disorder in which a patient cannot perceive motion in their visual field, despite being able to see stationary objects without issue.[1] There are varying degrees of akinetopsia: from seeing motion as a cinema reel to an inability to discriminate any motion. There is currently no effective treatment or cure for akinetopsia.


Those with Akinetopsia cannot follow changes in motion.

Here is a Zen Koan re the wisdom of Hui Neng the Six Patriach;

Two monks were watching a flag flapping in the wind.
One said to the other, “The flag is moving.”
The other replied, “The wind is moving.”
    Hui Neng overheard this.
    He said, “Not the flag, not the wind; mind is moving.”

Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:54 pm
by bahman
Prismatic567 wrote:Rather is there is an emergence of the mind and consciousness, then there is change.

Mind according to OP exists and cannot be emergent.

Prismatic567 wrote:Change is more of a concept, thus mind-based.

Change is something we experience. What one experiences is caused by mind.

Prismatic567 wrote:Note this clue that change is mind-based;
Akinetopsia (Greek: a for "without", kine for "to move" and opsia for "seeing"), also known as cerebral akinetopsia or motion blindness, is a neuropsychological disorder in which a patient cannot perceive motion in their visual field, despite being able to see stationary objects without issue.[1] There are varying degrees of akinetopsia: from seeing motion as a cinema reel to an inability to discriminate any motion. There is currently no effective treatment or cure for akinetopsia.


Those with Akinetopsia cannot follow changes in motion.

Like time I am not sure that change does exist in outside.

Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:10 am
by Prismatic567
bahman wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:Rather is there is an emergence of the mind and consciousness, then there is change.

Mind according to OP exists and cannot be emergent.

An emergent emerges and exists spontaneously.
Thus the mind exist as an emergent.

Clouds exist as emerging based on various elements, conditions and imperative with the mind.

Prismatic567 wrote:Change is more of a concept, thus mind-based.

Change is something we experience. What one experiences is caused by mind.

What one experience is a complex process but the underlying ground is the mind, which is also influencing the mind there upon and subsequently.

Note a baby has a baby-mind which has the potential to experience but the subsequent experiences through the baby's and person's life also influence its state of mind and the collective mind of future generations.

Therefore it is not a sole truth that 'one's experience is caused by the mind' or there is change because there in mind.

Prismatic567 wrote:Note this clue that change is mind-based;
Akinetopsia (Greek: a for "without", kine for "to move" and opsia for "seeing"), also known as cerebral akinetopsia or motion blindness, is a neuropsychological disorder in which a patient cannot perceive motion in their visual field, despite being able to see stationary objects without issue.[1] There are varying degrees of akinetopsia: from seeing motion as a cinema reel to an inability to discriminate any motion. There is currently no effective treatment or cure for akinetopsia.


Those with Akinetopsia cannot follow changes in motion.

Like time I am not sure that change does exist in outside.[/quote]
My main point is, it is more that there is mind-1, then there is change and subsequently there is change so there is mind-2.
Note there is no fixed mind that is permanent within a person, a person's mind changes at every moment.

Therefore your OP, "There is a change therefore there is a mind" just cannot stand by itself without the appropriate qualifications.

Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:09 pm
by bahman
Prismatic567 wrote:
bahman wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:Rather is there is an emergence of the mind and consciousness, then there is change.

Mind according to OP exists and cannot be emergent.

An emergent emerges and exists spontaneously.
Thus the mind exist as an emergent.

Clouds exist as emerging based on various elements, conditions and imperative with the mind.

The behavior of whole is a function of behavior of parts. You cannot have something extra. Therefore there is no emergence.

Prismatic567 wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:Change is more of a concept, thus mind-based.

Change is something we experience. What one experiences is caused by mind.

What one experience is a complex process but the underlying ground is the mind, which is also influencing the mind there upon and subsequently.

Note a baby has a baby-mind which has the potential to experience but the subsequent experiences through the baby's and person's life also influence its state of mind and the collective mind of future generations.

Therefore it is not a sole truth that 'one's experience is caused by the mind' or there is change because there in mind.

True.