iambiguous wrote:Lisbeth: No, not the video. I'll kill you. Do you doubt anything I've said? Do you doubt what's in the reports that have followed me around all my life? What do they say, if you had to sum it up? They say I'm insane.
[Bjurman desperately nods no]
Lisbeth: No, it's okay. You can nod because it's true. I am insane.
No, not really. She just lives her life...outside the lines?
fuse wrote:iambiguous wrote:Lisbeth: No, not the video. I'll kill you. Do you doubt anything I've said? Do you doubt what's in the reports that have followed me around all my life? What do they say, if you had to sum it up? They say I'm insane.
[Bjurman desperately nods no]
Lisbeth: No, it's okay. You can nod because it's true. I am insane.
No, not really. She just lives her life...outside the lines?
The situation she was in with her "guardian" was insane. When the conditions of your life are so whacked, "insane" measures make sense and help you survive. It wasn't likely any "proper" authority would have believed Lisbeth about the abuse, considering her history and reputation. She had to deal with the matter herself, by the means available to her, in a way that would end the abuse with near certainty.
iambiguous wrote:fuse wrote:iambiguous wrote:No, not really. She just lives her life...outside the lines?
The situation she was in with her "guardian" was insane. When the conditions of your life are so whacked, "insane" measures make sense and help you survive. It wasn't likely any "proper" authority would have believed Lisbeth about the abuse, considering her history and reputation. She had to deal with the matter herself, by the means available to her, in a way that would end the abuse with near certainty.
"Insane", yes. But she seemed to embody Nietzsche's notion that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. The end of the movie reminded me of Andy Dufresne going from bank to bank in The Shawshank Redemption.
fuse wrote:I've always wondered, what exactly did Nietzsche mean by that statement? Of course it's not true in an unconditional sense, for being wounded such that a limb has to be amputated certainly does not leave you stronger or open up any potential to be stronger that wasn't possible before. However, there are contexts in which N's statement rings brilliantly profound such as the case with being exposed bacteria and allergens early on in life leading to the development of a stronger, more resistant immune system for life. But what the hell did Nietzsche have in mind? If it was simply the sentiment that hardship can strengthen skills and resolve, well that's fairly common wisdom.
iambiguous wrote:fuse wrote:I've always wondered, what exactly did Nietzsche mean by that statement? Of course it's not true in an unconditional sense, for being wounded such that a limb has to be amputated certainly does not leave you stronger or open up any potential to be stronger that wasn't possible before. However, there are contexts in which N's statement rings brilliantly profound such as the case with being exposed bacteria and allergens early on in life leading to the development of a stronger, more resistant immune system for life. But what the hell did Nietzsche have in mind? If it was simply the sentiment that hardship can strengthen skills and resolve, well that's fairly common wisdom.
Well put.
I think he was just plain wrong. This spiritual machismo is present in a number of religions and subcultures and I think it has done a lot of damage. Sure, a person may be able to do things without worrying or hesitation they would not have been able to do without certain kinds of hardship and pain. But I think those who do this are cutting portions of themselves out, using or at least experiencing the harsh experiences as purging, toughening them up like leather. Scars instead of skin. A hopeless heart. Others, still in contact with the damaged parts of themselves function openly less well and do not appreciate what they went through in the way the ones who are positive about this do.fuse wrote:I've always wondered, what exactly did Nietzsche mean by that statement? Of course it's not true in an unconditional sense, for being wounded such that a limb has to be amputated certainly does not leave you stronger or open up any potential to be stronger that wasn't possible before. However, there are contexts in which N's statement rings brilliantly profound such as the case with being exposed bacteria and allergens early on in life leading to the development of a stronger, more resistant immune system for life. But what the hell did Nietzsche have in mind? If it was simply the sentiment that hardship can strengthen skills and resolve, well that's fairly common wisdom.
Moreno wrote:I think he was just plain wrong. This spiritual machismo is present in a number of religions and subcultures and I think it has done a lot of damage. Sure, a person may be able to do things without worrying or hesitation they would not have been able to do without certain kinds of hardship and pain. But I think those who do this are cutting portions of themselves out, using or at least experiencing the harsh experiences as purging, toughening them up like leather. Scars instead of skin. A hopeless heart. Others, still in contact with the damaged parts of themselves function openly less well and do not appreciate what they went through in the way the ones who are positive about this do.fuse wrote:I've always wondered, what exactly did Nietzsche mean by that statement? Of course it's not true in an unconditional sense, for being wounded such that a limb has to be amputated certainly does not leave you stronger or open up any potential to be stronger that wasn't possible before. However, there are contexts in which N's statement rings brilliantly profound such as the case with being exposed bacteria and allergens early on in life leading to the development of a stronger, more resistant immune system for life. But what the hell did Nietzsche have in mind? If it was simply the sentiment that hardship can strengthen skills and resolve, well that's fairly common wisdom.
Surely we all know someone or have seen someone who has been shattered by experiences that did not kill them, but who have lived on, half or less the person they were before. Sure, it can be tough sometimes to see the loss in those who beat their chests and say I can take it. Or is it harder? seems it can be right on the surface with them also?
I can see how some people do manage to grow through horrible experiences, gaining empathy and depth of character, and this can be a kind of strength, but unless I missed something this is not the 'stronger' N was writing about.
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