Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:59 pm

cease fire, delta farce. i repeat; cease fire. save your ammo. objective is complete. now get to the chopper. over.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:08 pm

oh and this bit about the 'genetic dead end' of homosexuality. it's true, but why must the human species survive? it mustn't, but it can, provided that those who participate in doing so want to. so his argument turns into these terms: it is anti-natural to not want to participate in the reproduction of the human species. but, being the case that the human species need not continue, the desire to not want to participate in its continuation is not an imperative violation. and yet he presents it as an imperative violation of a teleological rule... of which there is not.

see this is how it's done. don't get me wrong, biggs is good, no doubt about it. but with my help, he could be the best.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby MagsJ » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:27 pm

promethean75 wrote:well because ilp is a filty nest of desperate degeneracy. duh. but it's me, biggs, jakob the fixed barbarian, and pezerocles (to an extent) that absolutely infuriates him the most.
..that’s alright then. :)

that's what's so delicious about the kt/ilp saga. it's like an amateur wittgenstein/moore incident without the fire poker and a few garage philosopher dummies instead of academics. but i imagine every major forum has these same dramas... where a handful of regulars become an arch-nemesis to each other.

Release the hounds time? Their asking for it Prom..

and even if there were no drama between us blokes, we'd still find something to argue about.

..as long as I can laugh along with, but not get dragged into, it all.. I’ll go along with that. :lol:

it is anti-natural to not want to participate in the reproduction of the human species. but, being the case that the human species need not continue, the desire to not want to participate in its continuation is not an imperative violation. and yet he presents it as an imperative violation of a teleological rule... of which there is not.

..a ‘teleological ad argumentum’ work in progress? I’m sure he’ll get back to y’all on that one soon.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:48 pm

Look at the other dumb fuck who was found to have so much merit by the desperate degenerate.
It insists on putting words in my mouth.
He continues to reduce me to a level he believes he can deal with.
Where, you imbecile, have I ever used "unnatural" in reference to homosexuality?
Quote me.
I never even said paedophilia, necrophilia, bestiality was "unnatural", moron.
What ghosts are you fighting.....reflections of yourself.
Who are you "destroying" with your "arguments"? Who are you "debating" and calling them "objectivists"?


Okay, let's consider this. Let's say he does not argue all those behaviors he personally detests are unnatural. If, instead, any and all human behaviors are in fact manifestations of nature unfolding on planet Earth, than how can we react to them other than by noting that some of us choose one set of behaviors over another. There are behaviors that more choose, sure, but the behaviors less chosen are still no less natural. No less the product of an enormously complex interaction of genes and memes pertaining to any one particular individual out in any one particular world.

And only to the extent he is willing to examine his own political prejudices here as rooted existentially in the sequence of experiences that he has come to embody from the cradle to "here and now" will it begin to finally dawn on him that his intellectual contraptions are in turn no less the embodiment of this.

But he won't go there because that involves examining in turn his assumption that unless someone is willing to accept his own "general description" of the role genes and memes play here they are necessarily wrong.

Again, it is what he believes is the obligation of all rational folks to believe in turn that propels his own objectivism into the future. All the way to grave is my guess.

And then there's still this part of my argument:

And, sure, if you reduce human sexuality down to reproduction and then further insist that the reproduction of the human species is necessarily a good thing, you can become alarmed if, one day, everyone of us became a homosexual and the species stopped reproducing. Though, I suspect, this is unlikely to happen in our own lifetimes.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:59 pm

wrong thread
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby MagsJ » Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:21 pm

Look at the other dumb fuck who was found to have so much merit by the desperate degenerate.
It insists on putting words in my mouth.

:lol:

Charming. :shock:

He’s always had a way with (character-descriptive) words.. the minute he knows you revel in the name, is the minute he stops. He doesn’t want others to gain any pleasure from his output.. only displeasure, and only at his hands.
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I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:39 pm

Release the hounds time? Their asking for it Prom..


i can't do it. there's so many fronts from which to attack i can't make up my fuckin mind which one to take. i mean there's so many ways to approach and refute any particular statement. i call it the 'shooting fish in a barrel' dilemma, or 'amphibius non selectus'. like which one do i shoot... you know what i mean? it used to not be like this for me, though. i used to not be aware of all these analytical options of approach, and so i never had to hesitate.

i guess i'll just throw the ol' 'sense and reference' concept out there to account for the very general problems of philosophy. a subtle and persistent defect of philosophical language is that it replaces an actual referent with a provisional referent and then treats the sense gained from this reference as a real object. in derridean terms this is called differance, and how i mean it here is that it describes how philosophical statements are taken to be true if their correspondance to other philosophical statements is consistent within a given set of previously accepted definitions. so for example, in a simple syllogistic form, if i define a 'nihilist' as someone who listens to barbara streisand, and anyone who listens to barbara streisand is a desperate degenerate, then any desperate degenerate is a nihilist.

now that conclusion is logically sound, and the sense of one referent is made through access to the other. but the referent itself is only another sense - a name - and it is not clear what a nihilist or a desperate degenerate is aside from the fact that we now know they are equivalent. and very often this is what we observe in philosophy and call 'a world of words'. a provisional referent of one kind of sense is used to define a sense made of a statement without referent. and around and around it goes. what derrida meant by the 'aporia' is that never-ending process of referencing more sense-without-referent to define the sense of a particular concept.

and this difficulty increases exponentially when philosophical arguments contain value statements. so when (if) professor satyr says 'nihilist suck and should eat a dick', we now have the additional difficulty of finding a referent for what 'sucks', more precisely why it sucks, as well as finding a referent for the sense 'nihilist' other than 'the desperate degenerate who listens to barbara streisand.'

ontological statements can be broken down into atomic propositions so an aporia here isn't as dreadful; the referent for any sense becomes the fundamental particle. a nihilist desperate degenerate has the same sense as a lawn chair if our referent is the 'stuff' each is composed of. but when we go making value statements about lawn chairs and nihilists, we transcend the foundation of the atomic propositions that build our statements and lose any referents... other than the referents we use to support the provisional sense made during the process of differance and aporia.

as you can see, philosophy is some pretty sketchy shit, and those that do it, even sketchier. this is why i was saying earlier that we need a qualified therapist to sit each philosopher down and help him work through his neurosis. the philosopher has something on his mind, yes, but it's not what he's saying, because he's talking a lot of balderdash.

thus concludes my desperately degenerating nihlo-linguistic hijacking of language to destroy western culture and make everyone a homosexual genetic dead-end.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:30 pm

σᾰ́τῠρος wrote:Nihilism is the self-serving meme usurping the self-serving gene.
But is not the "self" of the gene another way of referring to the self of the individual - the continuum of DNA?
What is the "self" of the meme? An idea/ideal. An ideology. A word/symbol. An abstraction...a noumenon.

Have I not explained all this about a hundred times?


How might this "general description intellectual contraption" be yanked down out of the didactic clouds and made applicable to actual human interactions that come into conflict over value judgments.

Back again to homosexuality.

It would seem that in nature the self-serving genes of any particular man or woman who chooses to engage in homosexual relationships is likely to become intertwined in any number of memes...depending on which actual historical, cultural and experiential context he or she is "thrown" into at birth. And then on the unique set of experiences that he or she comes to embody in shaping the biological "I" into any number of possible anthropological, political, sociological and psychological renditions of "I".

The gene self is clearly more embedded in factors that are beyond our control. But the far more fascinating aspect here is grappling to understand the relationship between the biological self and all the other ones.

And, come on, is it really possible that someone like σᾰ́τῠρος is able to believe that only his own understanding of all this reflects the optimal frame of mind? Or, in fact, encompasses the only rational reflection of all? Philosophically or otherwise.

As a matter of fact, sure, it happens all the time. There are any number of folks right here at ILP and over at KT who offer us one or another ponderous rendition of their very own TOE. And almost without exception they are encompassed in intellectual contraptions.

You either go up into the clouds with them and think about things like homosexuality as they do "in general" our you are flat out wrong. Or, for σᾰ́τῠρος, a "Desperate Degenerate".
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:55 am

σᾰ́τῠρος wrote:It's hilarious...Desperate Degenerates have no clue what I am saying and why, so they just attack their own simplistic understanding, reducing me to a level they believe they can defeat.


Or:

It's hilarious...σᾰ́τῠρος and his claque have no clue what I am saying and why, so they just attack their own simplistic understanding, reducing me to a level they believe they can defeat.

Only he actually means it! Or, rather, he actually believes a philosopher can mean it =D>
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:07 pm

Transgenders and homos are "born that way", but females are socially constructed.
Sounds about right.
It's all subjective...no way to objectively determine what is correct and what incorrect.
Appearances matter....only within the market-place....outside of it, it's all superficial.


What on Earth does this have to do with my point here:

It would seem that in nature the self-serving genes of any particular man or woman who chooses to engage in homosexual relationships is likely to become intertwined in any number of memes...depending on which actual historical, cultural and experiential context he or she is "thrown" into at birth. And then on the unique set of experiences that he or she comes to embody in shaping the biological "I" into any number of possible anthropological, political, sociological and psychological renditions of "I".

The gene self is clearly more embedded in factors that are beyond our control. But the far more fascinating aspect here is grappling to understand the relationship between the biological self and all the other ones.


Which of our assessments here strikes you as the more serious attempt to explore homosexuality given some measure of intellectual depth?

We have reached the "end of philosophy"...we are at a pinnacle. Nothing more to think or discover...so we can all die happy, about living in the end of times, as the "last men".
Philosophy has debunked itself. It was all nonsense. The meaning of life is '42'...if we manipulate the numbers some profound symbolisms will emerge. Try it...it works.
Let's fuck and get high, let's get drunk before we die....but no conditions. I mean, everything is conditioned, except in human relationships - here unconditional love ought to be the goal.
love as alpha & omega. Hedonism.


That this sort of intellectual slop does not embarrass him is the lesson I take from the endless rantings we get from him regarding desperate degenerates.

It ever and always revolves around him giving you the chance to prove that you are worthy enough to be deemed "one of us". Or,if you refused to accept his own assumptions about the "natural" relationship between genes and memes, it is to the dungeon with all the other degenerates.

Whole swaths of folks based solely on their gender or race or ethnicity or sexual preferences or religious and political views.

Still, I suspect that the manner in which I expose this to him is taking it's toll. His subjunctive reaction above alone speaks volumes.

If you know what I mean.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby MagsJ » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:48 pm

I released a lot more than I bargained for, in thinking that to release the hounds was required.

Why is he obsessed with the genetic dead-end of gays? They either adopt or surrogate-create babies, so definitely still a part of the nurturing/adding to, of the population/the gene pool, respectively.
promethean75 wrote:
Release the hounds time? Their asking for it Prom..


i can't do it. there's so many fronts from which to attack i can't make up my fuckin mind which one to take. i mean there's so many ways to approach and refute any particular statement. i call it the 'shooting fish in a barrel' dilemma, or 'amphibius non selectus'. like which one do i shoot... you know what i mean? it used to not be like this for me, though. i used to not be aware of all these analytical options of approach, and so i never had to hesitate.

i guess i'll just throw the ol' 'sense and reference' concept out there to account for the very general problems of philosophy. a subtle and persistent defect of philosophical language is that it replaces an actual referent with a provisional referent and then treats the sense gained from this reference as a real object. in derridean terms this is called differance, and how i mean it here is that it describes how philosophical statements are taken to be true if their correspondance to other philosophical statements is consistent within a given set of previously accepted definitions. so for example, in a simple syllogistic form, if i define a 'nihilist' as someone who listens to barbara streisand, and anyone who listens to barbara streisand is a desperate degenerate, then any desperate degenerate is a nihilist.

now that conclusion is logically sound, and the sense of one referent is made through access to the other. but the referent itself is only another sense - a name - and it is not clear what a nihilist or a desperate degenerate is aside from the fact that we now know they are equivalent. and very often this is what we observe in philosophy and call 'a world of words'. a provisional referent of one kind of sense is used to define a sense made of a statement without referent. and around and around it goes. what derrida meant by the 'aporia' is that never-ending process of referencing more sense-without-referent to define the sense of a particular concept.

and this difficulty increases exponentially when philosophical arguments contain value statements. so when (if) professor satyr says 'nihilist suck and should eat a dick', we now have the additional difficulty of finding a referent for what 'sucks', more precisely why it sucks, as well as finding a referent for the sense 'nihilist' other than 'the desperate degenerate who listens to barbara streisand.'

ontological statements can be broken down into atomic propositions so an aporia here isn't as dreadful; the referent for any sense becomes the fundamental particle. a nihilist desperate degenerate has the same sense as a lawn chair if our referent is the 'stuff' each is composed of. but when we go making value statements about lawn chairs and nihilists, we transcend the foundation of the atomic propositions that build our statements and lose any referents... other than the referents we use to support the provisional sense made during the process of differance and aporia.

as you can see, philosophy is some pretty sketchy shit, and those that do it, even sketchier. this is why i was saying earlier that we need a qualified therapist to sit each philosopher down and help him work through his neurosis. the philosopher has something on his mind, yes, but it's not what he's saying, because he's talking a lot of balderdash.

thus concludes my desperately degenerating nihlo-linguistic hijacking of language to destroy western culture and make everyone a homosexual genetic dead-end.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

--MagsJ
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:13 pm

Why is he obsessed with the genetic dead-end of gays?


that is a symptom, not a cause. i mean the part about homosexuality is just a feature of a larger philosophical world view... but here's the cool part. the philosophical world view is also a symptom, not a cause. the actual cause is a very, veeeery deep seated fear and resentment, nervousness, of the future, of turning political and social tides... as well as a little personal vendetta against various posters. this is the edifice upon which all this is fueled and built.

i do understand the personal disgust with male homosexuality, though, because it's something that makes me nauseous as well. but i'm not trying to save the world from a homosexual invasion. the world is perfectly fine. better than it's ever been (in the final analysis), minus all the preventable death, scarcity and poverty. however, if i was to feel that the world was in danger and i was personally disgusted with male homosexuality, i might try to work them together into an dystopian intellectual contraption prophesizing the great fall of the western empire.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:31 pm

They either adopt or surrogate-create babies, so definitely still a part of the nurturing/adding to, of the population/the gene pool, respectively.


this of course would be countered with the argument that children raised by same sex couples will be dysfunctional. this image of dysfunctionality will be modeled off the old image of human identity that was conditioned and manufactured by the paternalistic model/institution of marriage.

this dysfunctionality only pertains to a cultural issue, not a materialistic issue, which is the only kind of issue that matters. a persons role in the modes and means of production; everything else is a subset of that and has very little relevance. a fellow can prefer to play with barbie dolls so long as he has a job, contributes to production, and doesn't break the law. barbie dolls are his personal business which government should not interfere with. sociologists who argue that identity is in jeopardy when males stop doing male stuff are limiting their scope of analysis to a very narrow period of time in the continuum of human social/economic evolution. they get this monolithic concept of 'masculinity' stuck in their heads and want to seize all change that disturbs that concept.

allow bruno to demonstrate:

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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:27 pm

Again, I make this point...

It would seem that in nature the self-serving genes of any particular man or woman who chooses to engage in homosexual relationships is likely to become intertwined in any number of memes...depending on which actual historical, cultural and experiential context he or she is "thrown" into at birth. And then on the unique set of experiences that he or she comes to embody in shaping the biological "I" into any number of possible anthropological, political, sociological and psychological renditions of "I".

The gene self is clearly more embedded in factors that are beyond our control. But the far more fascinating aspect here is grappling to understand the relationship between the biological self and all the other ones.


And all he can do is to come back with bombastic retorts like this...

σᾰ́τῠρος wrote: The desperate degenerate feels a vindictive pleasure with any idea concerning ends - telos.
For him his death ought to be the end, because he has no claim on the future - he is un-invested in the present, and he has rejected the past.
The nil is the absolute end.
Negation of all, past and future, leaving only the present to waste away using chemicals and distractions....and any type of pleasure - hedonism is the compensating validation of his existence.


and

σᾰ́τῠρος wrote: In the nihilistic paradigm man can impose his will upon the world, but not physically, but noetically - via symbols/words - ideologically.
The world no longer shapes man's ideologies, his beliefs, but man changes the world, by the sheer power of his will, using semiotics - words/numbers. He thinks an alternate reality into existence.


Seriously, I challenge anyone [from here or from there] to actually bring pedantic intellectual crap like this to bear on an issue like homosexuality.

By, for example, actually responding to the point I raised above.
Last edited by iambiguous on Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:26 am

That second one is a gem. What does 'reject the past' mean? Pretend like it didn't happen? Ignore the lessons and experiences we've had?

And how can someone 'have no claim to the future and not be invested in the present'?

Does this mean they have no plans, no goals? Does this mean that someone refuses to believe they exist right now? That they are not willfully occupied with whatever it is they're doing in the moment?

Nah... it doesn't mean any of that, because only an imbecile or someone on a permanent acid trip would ever mean something like that.

What it really means is; you don't have the history I have, you aren't doing presently what I am, and you don't have the same plans for the future. Ergo; you are a desperate degenerate nihilist.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:30 pm

σᾰ́τῠρος wrote:The idea is...that if you critique something negatively then you must be immune, or outside the critique.
So, if you critique women then it must be because of sexual frustration or because you are male.
Some claim to being excluded must be at work....because only positive things can ever be said about those you belong to, or identify with.
This is the either/or psychosis of Desperate Degenerates.
The self, or anything identifying you, must be praised - painted as absolute good.
if it is not, then the absolute opposite must be the case - one criticizes it as an absolute other, or nothing.


Again, all one can do here is to challenge him to take intellectual contraptions of this sort down off of their
"world of words" skyhooks and note with considerable more specificity how he reconfigures general descriptions of this ilk into his own interactions with others in which values come into conflict.

How, given the enormous complexity of genes interacting with memes down through the ages, would one go about demonstrating that "if you critique women then it must be because of sexual frustration or because you are male."

No exceptions? Applicable to all contexts?

And it is of course the either/or mentality [if not actual psychosis] of the objectivists here that exposes the need on their part to keep their arrogant assumptions about human interactions up in the clouds of abstraction.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:36 am

Check this out, biggs. One of the old members over at KT wants to share a tasty treat and posts this in the food and culture thread.

Dish" I learned from a Kurd: cut in half small tomatoes and pieces of garlic, add half piece of garlic to each half small tomato.
If you don't mind "bad breath" this is truly excellent.


No big deal, right? Just a harmless tomato and a few pieces of garlic. How does satyr respond? Go to 1:24.

This is how you know. We're gonna have to put him down, biggs.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby MagsJ » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:27 pm

Lol.. releasing his inner-hound. :lol:

Perhaps he’s carbo-depleting, and has gone on a major crank..
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:32 pm

Who knows. I'll tell ya another thing he does. Whenever you say something he happens to agree with (or vice versa), he likes to think you learned it from him. Duddint matter what it is or how simple (like this error in value theory).

If I posted tomorrow that cats are mammals, he'd pat himself on the back thinking I needed him to tell me that. Can you believe it?

This fuckin guy. holy mackerel.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:05 pm

σᾰ́τῠρος wrote:Now we move to the other type of desperate degenerate...the cynic.
He, correctly, laughs at the verbal acrobatics of the first....but then declares the word meaningless. "There is no such thing as love", he declares, because he rejects his fellow degenerates definitions and tactics as the only way to give the word 'love' meaning. It's an empty word, for him...because it must become so; if he cannot experience it, then the word itself must be used to negate it. If no absolute evidence can be given then the word must be dismissed as another example of human folly.
In all this human psychology is a driving factor.


First, of course, nature hard wired us genetically to express and to embody cynicism. So there must be a reason for that in and of itself.

Right?

But down through the ages, in any number of vast and varied memetic contexts, individual men and women found themselves feeling more or less cynical. And there must be a reason for that.

Right?

But only objectivists of his ilk insist that this manifestation of nature can in fact be pinned down such that as "one of us" you are able to tell the world not only what it is natural to feel cynical regarding, but how the Desperate Degenerates are always cynical about the wrong things.

Right?

Well, as long as the discussion is sustained up in the autodidactic clouds. Where the only thing that ever counts is the Word.
You define the meaning of cynicism as he does. And then with respect to human interactions that come into conflict all behaviors are deemed either worthy of cynicism or not worthy.

Not sure? He'll tell you.

As for love...the same thing. Nature has seen fit to provide us with genetic/biological components necessary to embody it. But it means so many different things to so many different people in so many different contests that only a complete fool would argue that, re his or her own tiny slice of existence, they have come to properly distinguish love from the perspective of the uberman and love from the perspective of the herd.

And, yes, for those who flock to self-righteous wordmeisters like this, human psychology is the driving force. Only, as with most everything else, that comes to mean different things to different people as well

The part embedded in dasein. And this is my own existential contraption: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:34 pm

σᾰ́τῠρος wrote:OK..I tire of degenerates in their unending desperation.
I need more serious stuff to focus my attentions upon.

Like circus clowns.

Shall we not dedicate ourselves to creating the absolute clown? Our will to mirth....is a task we must accept and laugh at the enormity of its gesticulating calling.
Joy ontology.


Okay, but what if the clown is a homosexual? And what if we note the definition of a circus clown...

A circus clown...a jester, or a person who dresses in funny clothes and entertains at a party or in a circus with jokes and tricks, or a person who pretends to be foolish.

...and then go on to explore the complex interactions between genes and memes here down through the ages. Think of clowns portrayed in horror films or the fear of clowns or the character Kyoami in Kurosawa's Ran.

σᾰ́τῠρος wrote:Okay....a last parting gift....I'm done.


You know, after having thoroughly thumped us yet again!! :lol:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:52 pm

"Okay, but what if the clown is a homosexual?"

Or a Cleveland Browns fan.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:52 am

sarty pants wrote:Poor Marxist...classic Jew victim psychology.
Exploitation is part of natural selection.
Herbivores exploit the processing of solar energy work of plants; carnivores exploit the processing of the condensed solar energy work of herbivores.


salary/wage earner: "nah I don't want to be paid more."

capitalist: "why not?"

salary/wage earner: "because cows eat grass and humans eat cows."

capitalist: "oh".
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby MagsJ » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:50 am

iambiguous wrote:
σᾰ́τῠρος wrote:Shall we not dedicate ourselves to creating the absolute clown?

Our will to mirth....is a task we must accept and laugh at the enormity of its gesticulating calling.
Joy ontology.


But when the guy is funny, he’s funny.. I’ll give him that. :lol:

After releasing the hounds, he’s sending in the clowns.. send in the clowns, where are the (god damn) clowns.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:15 pm

maybe, but it's forced. its not a genuine loftiness of humor because he can't escape the dour gravity of his seriousness. this man is dank and cavernous. deeply troubled, like a johnny cash song.

sarty pants wrote:Some Marxists admit that there is no substance to Marxism other than resentiment seeking retribution, and the collective seeking to usurp the elites.
nothing more than a means to an end.
If you are born poor, and failed to earn wealth, then you must demand its sharing from those who have been more creative or fortunate - a blackmail.
No high ideologies and deep altruistic motives.
Basis stuff.
If you cannot earn, take; if you cannot take, threaten; if you cannot threaten; beg.

But...can't we connect this to nature?
Of course we can.
if you cannot gather energies from the sun, exploit plants; if you cannot exploit plant work, scavenge the dead; if you cannot scavenge take it by becoming proactive, a predator.
Herd psychology finds its place.
So, no more Nietzsche posturing for you commies. Admit what you are to yourselves., Herbivores.


if you go far enough back in history, you'll find societies organized in ways that didn't involve a proto-bourgeois class. in which, ironically, those who were considered the strong and the powerful were the producers and functionaries (workers, soldiers, athletes, etc.), a class not characterized as elite because of it's rights to property ownership, but because of the society's dependency on them. it was only after the society became too big to be managed without designing cooperating branches of government, in turn requiring legislators, that the proto-bourgeois class began to emerge. the first form it took was in the mystics; wisemen, shaman, priests, etc. these people's 'function' was to act as an intermediary between the citizens and the imaginary gods. hardly what we'd call a real job, but you get the idea. this class was allotted a great deal of luxury and was exempt from any tangible role of material production. next comes the legislators and lawmakers, the rulers. at first, their function was legitimate. governing was a real job and as important as all the other real jobs. but after some time, once it became clear that is would be possible for the productive class - the proletariat - to form its own government consisting of themselves, the auxillary rulers, and the luxury they were afforded, became threatened. the task then became to invent 'ideology', and for this, philosophers were needed. the mystic class becomes the philosopher class, who works with the ruling class to a) convince the threatening lower working classes that it is by god's decree that these rulers maintain their power and authority... and then, after the enlightenment, b) convince the threatening lower working classes that the current type of society is rational (because they can't use god anymore).

fortunately for the ruling classes, before this time elapsed, property laws were already put into place and were accepted by everyone as normal. now, the only thing the ruling class had to do was pass its accumulated wealth through the following generations, and the bourgeois class would persist.

so we have this general timeline of events:

productive class of people expands in size and requires more complex forms or organization.
governing class emerges for this role.
modernization makes it possible for productive class to organize itself; rulers are no longer needed.
rulers recognize this danger and use religion/philosophy as a form of propaganda to forestall social reform.
once effectively brainwashed, citizens accept as normal existing property rights, and bourgeois class sustains itself through inheritance.

so you see - and i've written about this more extensively long ago but lost it all in the forums - that originally it was the very class now viewed as the 'weak' that was the 'strong', and only after thousands of years of incremental structural changes to the arrangement/organization of society, did the weaker, useless class (mystics and rulers; the bourgeois) become viewed as the 'elite'. today, the very parasite class that in the distant past was no sooner needed for society to function than it was needed to 'rule', is revered as the higher type.

you can see this reverence in the above words of sarty pants. but here's a wonderful irony; to an extent his attitude can't be blamed, because the damage capitalism has done to human nature in the last four hundred years is so extensive, that even the once noble proletarian class has become something contemptible. when a group of motley, uneducated, low-skilled wage laborers rally together to protest with indignation how miserable they are and how they 'deserve' better, i too become nauseous. i don't just see 'workers', but a type of scum that could only come into existence in a society left to conform to the infrastructures put in place by the capitalist/consumerist mode of social economy. in shorter words, these people are not only exploited by the parasite class, but left to physical, mental and spiritual disease. tranformed into a filth that can't be respected merely because they're wage earners (if they aren't lumpen).

so i understand the necessary but shortsighted opinion of sarty pants. a difference is, the very institutions he so righteously defends are the ones that have created the scum he so detests, and that this creation is not at all an inherent property of socialism (in theory or practice). problem is, we can't reverse what capitalism has done, and only through very slow reform can human nature be re-improved... where the productive class regains its nobility and integrity and the parasite class is finally abolished.

this again:

If you cannot earn, take; if you cannot take, threaten; if you cannot threaten; beg.

But...can't we connect this to nature?
Of course we can.
if you cannot gather energies from the sun, exploit plants; if you cannot exploit plant work, scavenge the dead; if you cannot scavenge take it by becoming proactive, a predator.
Herd psychology finds its place.
So, no more Nietzsche posturing for you commies. Admit what you are to yourselves., Herbivores.


you know why this kind of reasoning terminates itself? because when stated outright that 'might is right', there is nothing left to complain about; whatever takes power does so through this formula... be it a collective, a class, an individual, whatever. and yet when this entity does take power in whatever form, the complaining and protest begins; stop, you're too much of a predator!.

there is no splitting hairs and mincing words here. it is what it is. none of this 'this is the right way to be a predator' crap. the predator is defined by his winning, not by his adherence to a certain kind of virtue or character.

in one breath he'll remind of us the indifferent brutality of nature; those who can take, take. but the moment something of his is in jeopardy - culture, conservative values, yada yada - suddenly the takers are just resentful and not really powerful, not really predators.

damn i gotta take a shit. brb.

yo check this out. i ate a nachos plate recently that had an overwhelming amount of fresh, sliced jalapenos on it. bright green ones... and my ass has been on fire since. i dunno if its capsaicin or what, but it feels like somebody shoved a jalapeno up my ass. how long will i suffer this most inopportune affliction? anybody know? jesus i can't even walk.
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