The Philosophers

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:31 pm

"Aren't such 'ideals' themselves, too, phenomena though? And thereby in an eternal flux, so that the direction of the flux is itself also in flux?"

We can talk about phenomena. Though phenomena, too, is a product of will to power. Once again, as there isn't anything that isn't will to power, the problem is not whether you are right that there is a flux of phenomena, but that this flux doesn't incorporate will to power. The reverse is true.

As I said when I joined the conversation, it is a highly elevated philosophical concept and not easy to grasp.

"Isn't that just another way of saying it isn't of _value_ to anyone?"

Like I have been writing about here, value lacks immediacy. To find something valuable there must be enough time for a recognition of a thing that already exists. One can ask "is this thing valuable?" and consider it. But as soon as a thing is, it already matters.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:46 pm

What I'm pointing out, Jakob, is that VO doesn't go far enough.

Will to power wills will to power. VO only wills power. If you truly don't see the distinction, then I live in a much bigger world than you do. You may not care. That's fine. But, like you, many others for many millenia have been convincing people that there is only one power standard, one objective, one birth and death. An actual end.

This has made the world boring for people like me.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:58 pm

Mitra-Sawelius,

Will to power comes from nothing; will to power comes from itself...


So in other words it just appeared somewhere in existence from no effect whatsoevef?
People like Trump, Hitler, Mussolini, et cetera, just grabbed hold of it from the ether?
Of course, will to power can have its positive effects.
At the very least, might we say that will to power had its genesis at some point as a result of the evolution of the conscious mind and human pscyhe (or unconscious mind depending on who is experiencing it).

You see no cause and effect where WTP is concerned, no human psychological influences, like narcissism, existential angst, the cowardice and lack of power of the rapist, the need to achieve and excel, inspiration which motivates one to move?

I may be wrong but I do not see will to power coming from itself -- it must have some kind of an agent, human or otherwise.

How good is a vacuum cleaner if it is NOT plugged in and turned on? lol Perhaps not a very good analogy.

Consider the will to power which is seen in this philosophy forum. Where does IT come from?
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The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.


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Re: The Philosophers

Postby iambiguous » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:50 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote: Nothing matters if you don't subsist from day to day because you are dead.


My point however is that on this side of the grave there are clearly folks who are more aware of this than others. The struggle to sustain basic needs obviates discussions of all the things we dwell on here.

Pedro I Rengel wrote: You say genes and memes. Where do those come from? I don't mean substance, which doesn't exist. I mean, why are they? Why do I care?


Genes from the evolution of life on earth, memes from the manner in which historically and culturally our own species is able to become self-aware of this. And then to grapple with the extent to which our interactions [in the is/ought world] are more or less determined by them. The less they are the more we can discuss possible limitations built into our autonomy.

From my point of view, these limitations revolve around dasein, conflicting goods and political economy. That's why I ever and always come back to this:

...pick a particular context in which moral and political values come into conflict and let's explore the implications of it "out in the world". A world in which actual social, political and economic interactions unfold.

Existentially as it were.


The objectivists either will or [as often as not] will not.

For example, what on earth does this mean:

Will to power wills will to power. VO only wills power. If you truly don't see the distinction, then I live in a much bigger world than you do. You may not care. That's fine. But, like you, many others for many millenia have been convincing people that there is only one power standard, one objective, one birth and death. An actual end.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:11 pm

It means I tacitly accept the futility of Internet philosophy.

I suspected for some time, but it took a lot to finally give in to it. Because no institution we know is working on anything but mind-numbing modernity. The Internet was the last hope for a league of excellent men.

Not all is lost, of course. Jakob may not be in my league philosophically, but he's a genious. And a fun guy. A friendship I cherish. And at least I checked. Thoroughly. Now I KNOW the Internet is also not the way for... what will to power includes me.

So, net gain. On to other ventures.

Keep on rocking in the free world, biguous, fellas

Been a charm
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:14 pm

Pezer, the quintessential rebel.

Dangerous, like a 50's boy with a drivers-licence.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:20 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Will to power wills will to power. VO only wills power.

Did they lobotomize you?

What the shitty fuck happened man.

This is like, actually dumb.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:26 pm

Pezer I don't even believe that you are this retarded all of a sudden.

Listen to Ice Cube.
And put this on your reading list.

Image

At least read the entire cover



I mean, I know you won't, but just to make a point.
Some people here have actually read Nietzsche.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:48 pm

The Will to Power code is incomplete, precisely because it can charm boys and have them feel like men, without promoting them to make moves to power.
VO is less spectacular at first sight, but it drives the student straight into or across the abyss of horror that every almost every mind is oriented on.

WtP can make a guy prance around it, such a cool phrase, powwwahh, for is whole life uttering vanities.
VO can only suck people in and make them fight for their right to survive, or freak them out and zap their minds.

VO, as a cyclical arrow, an arrow that magnetizes worlds around it, is the fulfilled will to the ER, which to N was the highest Will to Power.
The pride involved in it is too great to relate through human language. Which is why I rap, to make that language stronger. Also why I am so baffled when someone thinks this is just some neat trick. It creates such an enormous abyss between us, unfathomable distance.

Pathos of Distance -
the Abyss
the Absolute
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:01 pm

Obviously the internet is just a soil. I am sowing seeds in some thousands of minds across some dozens of years.
A lot of you is a function of one of these treasures I scatter.

Don't think I don't know this. Don't think I didn't know what I was starting. Don't take me for a fool, Pezer. That never ends well for people that took from my magic. It is a vengeful magic, because it is nature.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:07 pm

Yes, God is mad.
Not crazy, but always angry.
God is Aries, the spring equinox.
Friendly flowers afforded by a will to squander the lives of billions.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:21 pm

The question I believe is whether wars that may come are going to be proper vehicles for philosophical will. This is at least how I approach politics. It works when there is a crisis.

I am fortunate to live in a country involved in a sophisticated war of tastes and ideologies inside the worlds apex military alliance. This allows a politician, and a philosopher is first of all that, a lot of leverage. Whenever there is need to act, it is possible when you are a citizen of a first world country. You matter.

Honestly speaking, there is only Europe, since it includes Russia, and the USA. China doesn't actually have a marketable culture at this time. And California has usurped most of what is marketable of the past millennia so they aren't even required for the generation of their own culture in as far as it matters. Japan also matters but forms no threat to anyone.

I believe that not liking Heidegger is a symptom of a hatred of the slowness of power.

Everything that has been built of mere ambition is flimsy. What is built of reverence for nature, human nature especially as it includes fear of its own power, is eternal in as far as human life is concerned.

Individualism as assuming anyone to be one is nonsense. As soon as a person is alone he is no longer a person but a world, that is to say an animal and a god. If he is a person, he is not given to himself. Individuality is possible but it requires a lot of interactions around truth and power, thus with a lot of love and pain, to have been successfully completed, so as for a world to have been established on this emerging individuals terms.

Violent and dismissive patriarchy is a surrogate for this privilege, what actually affords the power to be an individual is a thing like the Senate of an internationally feared and respected nation. First World (Roman) Government is built not to govern those who are taxed, but for some people to actually be someone.

::

Oh yeah and save the whales. But thankfully we've actually grown a conscience there. We did good work in the 80s. Oil disasters and sea mammal butcheries happen but people now tend to not like them. I wonder if bees are still all dying. That could kill most of us. Small things. Devils in details.
Still a lot of animal right work is to be done.
Humans can never be without sickness as long as dearth in animal spirit governs our appetites.
All is going in the right way. Except most people.
But as usual, they will follow whatever the cloudgatherer commands.

Capable if you are reading this -
what I meant was for all animals that are slaughtered for food to be first sanctified to a god.
I believe this may have been the real reason for animal sacrifice. To deal with the fact of killing, do justice to the life you take.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:57 pm

Be flattered that I think you matter.
All the rest is chatter.
break bread, take cheddar
make, break, make better

Blaze gunner, fake stake up-runner fun nun fucker, trucker, stop at the head-light, big eyes raised heads fright speeds pace or freezes, lazy eels are geezers in Chinese restaurants making bets about the death of Jesus.

Please eat meat from green fields with beer treated steers or beat it
Im excellent like Jackson I need it said by a claxon

Ive been to Germany and back, too many vermin in the Burger King

Haha
yeah

Ive been to Germany and returned, too many vermin in the Burger King
first things first, eternally
Or KFC
its the same to me
soggy chicken
no crisp given
parking lot litter
no dinner

dead winter, sad bread winner
on the verge of sinning
of planning some action
stage an attraction to gain traction
fame wagon, blame Bob Saget
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:06 pm

Zoot talking to his mom about Nietzsche
https://vocaroo.com/i/s0RSHs7D1KBW
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:08 pm

time for breakfast
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:06 pm

After reading a mail from Capable this morning something pretty cool occurred to me.

The three people that at this point grasp VO as to be able to work with it with graceful ease that is natural to it are Vikings. Their hearts belong to Odin. Or in the case of the third, her heart belongs first to Thor.

The three of us draw runes. The three of us have a rather violent temper.

Fuck it.

VO is for people of Odin.
VO is a Hyperborean wisdom.

The strongest of hearts.

I don't even know why this did not occur to me before.

Hail Heimdall!

Sharpening our blades on a strength that never fades
We will be remembered as you recede into the shades


It is good like this.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:17 pm

I invoke Heimdall for several reasons.
Most of which will of course remain undisclosed
But one of them is Hagalaz, the rune of the Abyss.

Let him listen who has ears.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:27 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Yes, God is mad.
Not crazy, but always angry.
God is Aries, the spring equinox.
Friendly flowers afforded by a will to squander the lives of billions.


You forgot to mention that God is also perpetual projection.
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It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.


The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.


“We love repose of mind so well, that we are arrested by anything which has even the appearance of truth; and so we fall asleep on clouds.”


You have to be like the pebble in the stream, keeping the grain and rolling along without being dissolved or dissolving anything else.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:39 pm

What Mitra is building is an Indo Aryan adaption of it. Also a shamanism, a wisdom.
Fair to say we have surpassed the love of wisdom as a yearning, and become its own self-love.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:57 pm

They were the leaders of men, these great ones; the modellers, patterns, and in a wide sense creators, of whatsoever the general mass of men contrived to do or to attain; all things that we see standing accomplished in the world are properly the outer material result, the practical realization and embodiment, of Thoughts that dwelt in the Great Men sent into the world: the soul of the whole world's history, it may justly be considered, were the history of these...
One comfort is, that Great Men, taken up in any way, are profitable company. We cannot look, however imperfectly, upon a great man, without gaining something by him. He is the living light-fountain, which it is good and pleasant to be near...
Worship of a Hero is transcendent admiration of a Great Man.
I say great men are still admirable; I say there is, at bottom, nothing else admirable!
No nobler feeling than this of admiration for one higher than himself dwells in the breast of man...
Faith is loyalty to some inspired Teacher, some spiritual Hero.
And what therefore is loyalty proper, the life-breath of all society, but an effluence of Hero-worship, submissive admiration for the truly great? Society is founded on Hero-worship.
Society everywhere is some representation, not insupportably inaccurate, of a graduated Worship of Heroes—reverence and obedience done to men really great and wise...
No sadder proof can be given by a man of his own littleness than disbelief in great men.
There is no sadder symptom of a generation than such general blindness to the spiritual lightning, with faith only in the heap of barren dead fuel. It is the last consummation of unbelief.
In all epochs of the world's history, we shall find the Great Man to have been the indispensable savior of his epoch;—the lightning, without which the fuel never would have burnt.
The History of the World, I said already, was the Biography of Great Men.
[Carlyle, On Heroes]

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Re: The Philosophers

Postby URUZ » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:07 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:What Mitra is building is an Indo Aryan adaption of it. Also a shamanism, a wisdom.
Fair to say we have surpassed the love of wisdom as a yearning, and become its own self-love.


Yes.

And this, “Individuality is possible but it requires a lot of interactions around truth and power, thus with a lot of love and pain, to have been successfully completed, so as for a world to have been established on this emerging individuals terms.”

^ crystal clear truth. nothing else need be said on that subject.


VO is the furnace that only the hardest ceramal-souled golems can withstand, the heat only makes them stronger and gives them energy while it melts everyone else. Will to power is just a littl trick of conception made to grow a perspective like a Venus fly trap set over a stinking bog, that some potentially free flying little thing might become trapped in its jaws. Trapped so it has to fight for once. Separate itself from the swamp, feel a path-os of distance.

VO is so simple and obvious that people hate it, can’t deal with it, it’s honest and obvious simplicity obliviates all the complex sophisticated nonsense people use every day to try and justify shit to themselves. Mostly themselves, the shit they try to justify to themselves is themselves. Lolskek

But I love humans, they are earthy and pure in their impurities and silly denials. Vanity is beautiful, especially in a female who knows how to smile. VO places oneself above even the need to fight, you become like Bruce Lee and already win every fight before it begins, so you can just stand there and smile when some dumb fuck comes up to you with loud voices and nonsense gestures of the face and hands. Language. Supposedly. Haha.

THOR
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby iambiguous » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:22 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote: It means I tacitly accept the futility of Internet philosophy.


Well, to the extent that internet philosophy comes to reflect one or another rendition of Will Durant's "epistemologists", certainly.

On the other hand, given the seeming profound limitations embedded in philosophies revolving around the question, "how ought one to live?", when has it ever not been essentially futile?

Pedro I Rengel wrote: I suspected for some time, but it took a lot to finally give in to it. Because no institution we know is working on anything but mind-numbing modernity. The Internet was the last hope for a league of excellent men.


Okay, another "general description" of...what exactly? What is the "hope" that we should strive for in an is/ought world that [in my view] revolves around dasein, conflicting goods and political economy? Excellent in regard to what particular contexts we might all be familiar with?

At least insofar as any particular subjective/subjunctive rendition of "this is how we ought to live" is relevant to the behaviors we choose.

But that of course is where the objectivists almost never go.

Pedro I Rengel wrote: Jakob may not be in my league philosophically, but he's a genious.


Really? Cite a couple of posts on this thread that, in your opinion, exemplifies this. From my perspective, he pops up on the thread spouting these obtuse, elliptical "observations" that I myself find particularly difficult to integrate into the world of actual human interactions.

On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge, he chose to create a thread called The Philosophers and put it in the Non-Philosophical Chat forum. Perhaps his whole intent here is just an exercise in irony.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:50 pm

UrGod wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:What Mitra is building is an Indo Aryan adaption of it. Also a shamanism, a wisdom.
Fair to say we have surpassed the love of wisdom as a yearning, and become its own self-love.


Yes.

And this, “Individuality is possible but it requires a lot of interactions around truth and power, thus with a lot of love and pain, to have been successfully completed, so as for a world to have been established on this emerging individuals terms.”

^ crystal clear truth. nothing else need be said on that subject.


VO is the furnace that only the hardest ceramal-souled golems can withstand, the heat only makes them stronger and gives them energy while it melts everyone else. Will to power is just a littl trick of conception made to grow a perspective like a Venus fly trap set over a stinking bog, that some potentially free flying little thing might become trapped in its jaws. Trapped so it has to fight for once. Separate itself from the swamp, feel a path-os of distance.

VO is so simple and obvious that people hate it, can’t deal with it, it’s honest and obvious simplicity obliviates all the complex sophisticated nonsense people use every day to try and justify shit to themselves. Mostly themselves, the shit they try to justify to themselves is themselves. Lolskek

My brother.

But I love humans, they are earthy and pure in their impurities and silly denials. Vanity is beautiful, especially in a female who knows how to smile. VO places oneself above even the need to fight, you become like Bruce Lee and already win every fight before it begins, so you can just stand there and smile when some dumb fuck comes up to you with loud voices and nonsense gestures of the face and hands. Language. Supposedly. Haha.

THOR

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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:54 pm



Wow, this guy is righteous.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby URUZ » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:56 pm

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