I hear men in all categories of attractiveness bitching about women being bitches, going for bad guys, being shallow, being frigid, being golddiggers, breaking up for them for the 'wrong' reasons, not prioritizing the goodness of their hearts. I mean, seriously, I hear this all the time when I encounter men not amongst my close friends. The short, poor scrawny men tend not to focus on their appearance, but rather on what is wrong with the women - for example that they are shallow or go for bad guys or are golddiggers. I mean, they don't lead with their own shortcomings, but it is implicit in their complaints. And these dicussions are often also general - women are like that, as opposed to the specific bithing about a specific woman who done them wrong.Gloominary wrote:We don't hear poor, scrawny, short men complaining how few, if any women find them attractive, even tho they may be of decent character, and if/when they do complain, women as a collective and society laugh at them, or accuse them of misogyny.
Not on the planet I live on. I see men blaming women all the time when they feel insecure. Not that they say that. They tend to present themselves as angry.When men feel insecure, it's men's problem, when women feel insecure...it's men's problem.
Don't look at the magazines. Don't read articles where people are demanding you to feel a certain way. Find a real problem/challenge.mannequin01 wrote:https://hips.hearstapps.com/ell.h-cdn.co/assets/16/27/768x1017/gallery-1467837454-screen-shot-2016-07-06-at-11621-pm.png
As you can tell, fat women ( otherwise known as morbidly obese beach whales ), are no longer begging society for acceptance but rather DEMANDING it now, in the pursuit of their passive aggressive constant crying whilst munching on chocolate biscuits, they are now making their way on front covers on magazine, this is not good and is clearly an act of aggression.
The other day, i was just strolling along the street walking towards the local shop, outside the shop they have a news/magazine stand
You may notice this also, but when I see a thread like this it seems like women are the ones who expect to be considered attractive regardless AS OPPOSED TO MEN. And that I laugh at...
Not on the planet I live on. I see men blaming women all the time when they feel insecure. Not that they say that. They tend to present themselves as angry.
And seriously the OP of this thread is vitimized in some miraculous way by fat women on the covers of magazines.
And how many women go into their high schools with guns to show everyone who did not treat them like they wanted to be treated how much rage they got about not getting what they wanted?
I'm sure there are people who think people should go against their own reactions, but I donTknow how widespread this is. In general I think that we are trained a lot what to be attracted to and what not to be. I do not mean that without training we would find overweight women or men as attractive, but that there is training involved. This training traditionally was aimed more at what men should find attractive, meaning therefore what women should live up to. If we look at movies, it is much more likely that a not so attractive, but charismatic man, will be with a beautiful woman, then the reverse equivalent. And the images of women we are bombarded with tend to fit in a more narrow range than those of men. There have been countertrends. Men being cut and extremely well trained is much more normal in film and magazines than it was when I was a kid. You can get away, as a man, with being fairly unattractive, but you better be fucking muscular.Gloominary wrote:I would date an obese woman (but not morbidly obese) if she had other qualities I found attractive, but I'd rather date a slim woman with other qualities I found attractive.
So long as fat culture doesn't have a problem with that, I don't have a problem with it, but from what I've read, much of fat culture believes fatness is just as healthy as slimness, or shouldn't be a factor in attractiveness, and that's ridiculous, perhaps for a tiny minority of men, it's true, but not the vast majority.
And some men wouldn't date an obese woman no matter how attractive she was as a person, and that's their prerogative, plenty of guys will, just as there's nothing wrong with women who won't date unemployed, or short, scrawny men.
I just don't see this and I don't for example, see this here at this forum. I hear men talking about how stuck up, prudish, judgmental, cold women are all the time. I hear them complaining about individual women who do not go out with them all the time.Women complain more about men and everything in general than men.
There is definitely truth to this. When I was younger it was not like this. I don't think men complain less about women, but I do think we have entered a much more feminist period where the complaints of women have been given the center.And women's complaining about men and things is taken seriously by society, colleges, universities, government and media, whereas men's is laughed at, or vehemently institutionally and collectively opposed.
Men's bitching is mostly relegated to bars, locker rooms and internet forums such as these where they can remain anonymous, whereas women's bitching is not only tolerated, but encouraged, sanctioned and glorified as the antidote for nearly all men's and societies social ills.
Which is dumb. There were courses, again when I was younger, in men's ___________. And this was even seen as potentially good in feminism. Not anymore.I mean you can take a course in university called women or gender studies, which's essentially little more than women bitching about men and society, pretentiously dressed up as something edified, and intellectual, when it's anything but.
If you even suggested that perhaps there ought to be a men's studies at universities, you'd be met with laughter, or else branded a misogynist, a rape apologist, a Nazi and so on.
I agree with the last. It's just, right now fat women will still be treated less well than slim women - as will fat men for that matter. They will be looked down on and judged - of course, also by other women. It will affect their careers, their social lives and probably treatment in a lot of private sector type situations wehre they are customers. Fat people are treated less well. Women who are identified with their looks more than men, I would think more so. A fat man with a slim beautiful woman might get some looks. A fat woman with slim beautiful man at her side will get more. What could he possibly see in her. Whereas the woman will be assumed to have found something else: money, a charismatic, intelligent mate, or some other side qualities. At least in white culture a man going out with a fat women is taking a social status hit. A woman might or might not.I personally don't have a problem with fat women on the covers of magazines, or with there being a fat culture, so long as the culture doesn't believe society owes them something, other than basic respect.
Men don't owe it to fat women, to look passed their weight, if they don't want to.
Yeah, I was ranging wide on this one. I just felt like the OP was hysterical. The guy is being victimized by fat women wanting to be loved. I mean, that is a problem one can easily avoid.Firstly, while men may commit more mass murder than women, it's still a tiny minority of men who're mass murderers, one in millions.
I agree, bitchiness, and I would add to that bitchiness' effects, are harder to track and quantify. Perhaps it is just my odd corner of things, but in my now getting fairly long life I hear men and women complaining about the opposite sex ALL THE TIME. I may have a skewed view because of my particular against statistics experiences, but that's what I have experienced.Secondly, while bitchiness is infinitely more difficult to quantify than murder, and not all women are bitches, in my opinion women bitch more about men and society in general than men do about women, because biology, because men don't menstruate or go through menopause, and because men are taught to be tough and take more responsibility for themselves and their lives than women.
And bitchiness is not trivial, it does serious damage to men, and women, to relationships, and society at large.
It was not a very good line of response I took, though I did react to the hysteria of the OP. It's not a line I would take against most people around this issue. I really just wanted to introduce a real problem. I am not saying that men are worse than women. In general, I do think that if a man has decided you did him wrong, a women is in much more danger than a man would be if a woman came to the opposite conclusion.Thirdly, men are more heroic than women, we're more likely to save women, and men from male, and female murderers.
Men make up the vast majority of police, firemen, rescue workers, paramedics, surgeons and so on, whereas women make up the majority of nurses, therapists, teachers and so forth.
Some fat women may well do this. Some fat men do this. I see more fat men with good looking wives/girlfriends than I do the reverse. I hear unattractive men describing women as shallow for not going for them.lordoflight wrote:The OP's sentiments are not as simple as you make them out to be. There are several factors, one being that fat women demand a Mr. Perfect while still being fat.
I have very different experiences. I saw fat girls in high school going out with low status men with regularlity. It was part of low status going with low status. The guys might be nerds (in the wrong way) or not very attractive or just plain considered geeks. And I have seen this at every stage of age going up to now.The dillemna of males is a bit different, low status males are generally willing to date fat chicks, yet fat chicks refuse to date low status males,
So these were Marxist fat women? I see men and women being shallow and exclusive, though in different ways. I see unattractive men with attractive women much more than the reverse. I hear fat and unattractive men calling women shallow bitches and never even workign on their hygience, those things they can control. This is not to say men are worse. I see both sides in general as pretty shallow and men and women having different though overlapping shallows.and expect fit and high status males to lust after them. This creates a kind of double standard that irritated the OP. Its part of a bigger thing, the marxist agenda to shame anything masculine and to forcefully cater to anything that's female. Female's mating behavoirs are guilty of many of the Marxist nono's: Racism, sexism, ageism, mental-health-ism, lookism, poor-discrimination, fat-discrimination, transphobia, homophobia, etc. But get a free pass to violate their own dogma, because Marxism has to engineer itself so that it caters to females. Thus females can have any kind of one-way morality of "do as I say not as I do". Women can say they refuse to date any man who isn't as handsome as Johnny Depp, and get thunderous applause. But if a male even uses the number rating system to rate a woman, he gets called a pig or dinosaur.
I really doubt there are 600 pound women on magazine covers demanding to be considered beautiful. In other eras women were considered attractive at weights that up until 2000 would have been considered overweight. It was skinny ass shit. Now the range is wider which I think is generally good. If you are attracted to one legged women or only two legged women, that is what you are attracted to and no one should hassle you. And yes, if they start coming to my residence and saying that I should leave my wife because she is traditionally attractive...fuck them. Fat acceptance can go too far, sure, but fat people have a harder time getting jobs, getting raises, being taken seriously. All sorts of shit that has nothing to do with our great concern for their health is dumped on them, often without people even realizing they dismissed the fat person for no good reason. A few fat people may think that we should be attracted to them if we are not, but I will fucking bet you at least half of those fat people are men.And even then, its still not as simple as that. There is another component, fat acceptance, that promotes disease and decay. Promoting that a fat unhealthy lifestyle is just as valid as a healthy lifestyle and should be respected. I'm a bit overweight. Me being a bit overweight makes me feel unhealthy and lethargic. So imagine how bad it would feel to be 600 pounds. It would be like a kind of hell on earth. They need help, not praise and celibration.
Karpel Tunnel wrote:Some fat women may well do this. Some fat men do this. I see more fat men with good looking wives/girlfriends than I do the reverse. I hear unattractive men describing women as shallow for not going for them.
I have very different experiences. I saw fat girls in high school going out with low status men with regularlity. It was part of low status going with low status. The guys might be nerds (in the wrong way) or not very attractive or just plain considered geeks. And I have seen this at every stage of age going up to now.
So these were Marxist fat women? I see men and women being shallow and exclusive, though in different ways. I see unattractive men with attractive women much more than the reverse. I hear fat and unattractive men calling women shallow bitches and never even workign on their hygience, those things they can control. This is not to say men are worse. I see both sides in general as pretty shallow and men and women having different though overlapping shallows.
But I just don't see the OP as victimized by the expectations of some fat women. It seems to me it is utterly ignorable. And those fat women will be shit on in many contexts, by both women and men, often subtely but also with real life consequences. I just can't see them as significant oppressors. There are men who are being victimized in the current climate, but it is not men who have to walk by magazine racks on the way to buy whatever they want, where these fat women on covers of magazines have the temerity to think they are not hideous. And then if they do go ahead and demand they be considered attractive - I don't know how this plays out in any concrete way for the OP - he can just not ask them out.
I really doubt there are 600 pound women on magazine covers demanding to be considered beautiful. In other eras women were considered attractive at weights that up until 2000 would have been considered overweight. It was skinny ass shit. Now the range is wider which I think is generally good. If you are attracted to one legged women or only two legged women, that is what you are attracted to and no one should hassle you. And yes, if they start coming to my residence and saying that I should leave my wife because she is traditionally attractive...fuck them. Fat acceptance can go too far, sure, but fat people have a harder time getting jobs, getting raises, being taken seriously. All sorts of shit that has nothing to do with our great concern for their health is dumped on them, often without people even realizing they dismissed the fat person for no good reason. A few fat people may think that we should be attracted to them if we are not, but I will fucking bet you at least half of those fat people are men.
In general I think that we are trained a lot what to be attracted to and what not to be.
This training traditionally was aimed more at what men should find attractive, meaning therefore what women should live up to.
If we look at movies, it is much more likely that a not so attractive, but charismatic man, will be with a beautiful woman, then the reverse equivalent.
There have been countertrends.
And the images of women we are bombarded with tend to fit in a more narrow range than those of men.
You can get away, as a man, with being fairly unattractive, but you better be fucking muscular.
Which is dumb. There were courses, again when I was younger, in men's ___________. And this was even seen as potentially good in feminism. Not anymore.
I agree with the last. It's just, right now fat women will still be treated less well than slim women - as will fat men for that matter. They will be looked down on and judged - of course, also by other women. It will affect their careers, their social lives and probably treatment in a lot of private sector type situations wehre they are customers. Fat people are treated less well. Women who are identified with their looks more than men, I would think more so. A fat man with a slim beautiful woman might get some looks. A fat woman with slim beautiful man at her side will get more. What could he possibly see in her. Whereas the woman will be assumed to have found something else: money, a charismatic, intelligent mate, or some other side qualities. At least in white culture a man going out with a fat women is taking a social status hit. A woman might or might not.
Yeah, I was ranging wide on this one. I just felt like the OP was hysterical. The guy is being victimized by fat women wanting to be loved. I mean, that is a problem one can easily avoid.
In general, I do think that if a man has decided you did him wrong, a women is in much more danger than a man would be if a woman came to the opposite conclusion.
Gloominary wrote:Has womankind forgotten the proverb: you win more bees with honey than with vinegar?
Karpel Tunnel wrote:Here we are in a philosophy forum. I just did a search of threads with women in the title...
Here are some recent ones.....
Fat women demanding love
Women are evil without motive
Should women be protected by their own stupidity
Women choose rapists, murderers, thieves for sex
All women are asexual or lesbians
The modern woman's narcissism
End women's suffrage
Women have extreme entitlement when it comes to social attitudes
Lack of feminine women in society
Women are full of shit
Killing women is natural and healthy ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^special note for that one
Women are psychotic narcissists
Transactionary Prosititute natue of women
women cause war
That's going just by titles, first pages of searches. Some of these threads may have some philosophical value. But here we have men managing to criticize ALL WOMEN. I did a search for threads with Men in the title. Some of these also condemned all women. I find none where all men are condemned or judged.
And sure, philosophy forums attract more men than women, it just seems like something is being skewed way out of proportion.
A lot of men have a generalized hatred of women.
I just don't buy the fat women running rampage over our freedoms implications of the OP, and the seeming not noticing by the OPs apologists how common hatred of women amongst men is and how blanket that hate is.
Pandora wrote:Pure aesthetic appreciation is a later development of civilization. Outside of it the only value that matters is survival, and in the wild (or even early stages of civilization) fat = survival. If civilization collapses, all the skinny bitches will die off, no matter how "beautiful", "elegant" or "ethereal" they may appear to men.
Then, we'll be back to this again: https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-hi ... key-006663
And you don't love them because they are beautiful or inspire some otherworldly poetic visions in you, you value and worship them because your basic survival and existence depends on them, and all the qualities (read - fat) that give them advantage at survival and successful reproduction. So stop being such picky faggots; were it not for civilization that created the likes of you (clueless dreamers), this would be the best and the most realistic option you could ever hope for.
Gloominary wrote:And what is this thing they have to develop, looks?
While looks are nice to have, they're about the most superficial quality a person can bring to a relationship.
So basically what feminists are telling me is, men, and society, historically and even to the present day, expect almost nothing from women, and that that, is what male privilege is...really?
. This kind of thinking was a later development of civilization, perhaps when population control was becoming an issue (or rather, survival was no longer the major issue and probably hasn’t been for many generations already). This is where, I believe, aesthetics come in. The ideas of “spiritual” love, a higher love which births “knowledge” and “virtues” (instead of babies) was now becoming more accepted.lordoflight wrote:
To be honest, I'd rather fuck a cute petite guy than have sex with a woman who is 700 pounds. If that makes me a fag so be it. Can't even with that fishy stank.
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