Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:31 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Try this.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL
And the mind that refuses to discuss ideas that point out flaws in its ideas would then be no mind at all. Not to mention how much you discuss people and insultingly.

And since you like to appeal to authority, try this.....
“He who loses money, loses much; He who loses a friend, loses much more; He who loses faith, loses all.”

-Eleanor Roosevelt

From the mouth of your authority, and much as there are many things I admire about her, she is not my authority.

Care to discuss your other authority Origen and his supernatural ideas?


Nope. I prefer to give my views.

BTW. I look for wisdom saying and do not care who says them. The words are more important than the speaker.

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason on God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the believers mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:58 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

Nothing that I know of, other than personal renderings or hear say, has ever been produced or provide to show the existence of a supernatural realm or entities. The ancients did not seem to think the supernatural was a reality. https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

No entity, good or evil, have ever manifested itself in a provable way, even though some think god is Omni-present and that Satan was given the ability and power to deceive us all.

I think that those who believe in supernatural entities are being taken advantage of by fraudulent preachers who recognize our propensity of over imagination, which we all have, as shown in the Princess Alice experiments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWx_uVDh4Cw

I can see some benefits in imaginary thinking to validate or refute ideas but that is about it.

Is belief or faith in the supernatural a worthy idea for us or is it a tool used by lying preachers intent on fleecing sheeple?

If there is no supernatural god, should we not seek a human leader or spiritual guide instead of idolizing imaginary supernatural gods that are demonstrably less moral than humans?

Regards
DL


Yes, although not all believers are intelligent, of course.

Religious people live better lives than atheists do. That's proven by the social sciences.

Being religious means a better life in this world (happier, live longer, less depression, less suicide, more giving) and hopefully a much better life in the next.


Better is a subjective thing.

Sure the religious live a bit longer and happier lives, but to a thinker, as compared to a sheeple, cannot see being a sheeple as better than a thinker.

The small difference is not enough to make an atheist put his mind in intellectual and especially moral dissonance.

We value our minds and truth more than theists. By we I mean thinkers, not atheists. Not being an atheist, I cannot speak for them.

At present, atheists are beginning the trend of providing what were known as mystery schools. Some are calling them atheist churches. That trend will give them the longer and happier lives without them having to insult their intellect and morals.

They know how utterly stupid and brain killing idol worship of a genocidal son murdering god can be. They have seen what it does to Christians and Muslims.

They are not interested in growing atheism with inquisitions and jihads.
That is why countries with less religiosity are more peaceful and law abiding.

Regards
DL


In a few decades when they're dead, atheists will see the error of their ways, unfortunately. Pride comes before the fall.

Let's hope they change before then.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:11 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:[

Yes, although not all believers are intelligent, of course.

Religious people live better lives than atheists do. That's proven by the social sciences.

Being religious means a better life in this world (happier, live longer, less depression, less suicide, more giving) and hopefully a much better life in the next.


Better is a subjective thing.

Sure the religious live a bit longer and happier lives, but to a thinker, as compared to a sheeple, cannot see being a sheeple as better than a thinker.

The small difference is not enough to make an atheist put his mind in intellectual and especially moral dissonance.

We value our minds and truth more than theists. By we I mean thinkers, not atheists. Not being an atheist, I cannot speak for them.

At present, atheists are beginning the trend of providing what were known as mystery schools. Some are calling them atheist churches. That trend will give them the longer and happier lives without them having to insult their intellect and morals.

They know how utterly stupid and brain killing idol worship of a genocidal son murdering god can be. They have seen what it does to Christians and Muslims.

They are not interested in growing atheism with inquisitions and jihads.
That is why countries with less religiosity are more peaceful and law abiding.

Regards
DL[/quote]

In a few decades when they're dead, atheists will see the error of their ways, unfortunately. Pride comes before the fall.

Let's hope they change before then.[/quote]

Fear mongering. A poor apologists last lying retort.

Your lying clergy must have gotten to you when too young and you still have yet to reach the age of reason.

Go try your garbage and lies on children.

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DL
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:19 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

Nothing that I know of, other than personal renderings or hear say, has ever been produced or provide to show the existence of a supernatural realm or entities. The ancients did not seem to think the supernatural was a reality. https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

No entity, good or evil, have ever manifested itself in a provable way, even though some think god is Omni-present and that Satan was given the ability and power to deceive us all.

I think that those who believe in supernatural entities are being taken advantage of by fraudulent preachers who recognize our propensity of over imagination, which we all have, as shown in the Princess Alice experiments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWx_uVDh4Cw

I can see some benefits in imaginary thinking to validate or refute ideas but that is about it.

Is belief or faith in the supernatural a worthy idea for us or is it a tool used by lying preachers intent on fleecing sheeple?

If there is no supernatural god, should we not seek a human leader or spiritual guide instead of idolizing imaginary supernatural gods that are demonstrably less moral than humans?

Regards
DL


Yes, although not all believers are intelligent, of course.

Religious people live better lives than atheists do. That's proven by the social sciences.

Being religious means a better life in this world (happier, live longer, less depression, less suicide, more giving) and hopefully a much better life in the next.


Better is a subjective thing.

Sure the religious live a bit longer and happier lives, but to a thinker, as compared to a sheeple, cannot see being a sheeple as better than a thinker.

The small difference is not enough to make an atheist put his mind in intellectual and especially moral dissonance.

We value our minds and truth more than theists. By we I mean thinkers, not atheists. Not being an atheist, I cannot speak for them.

At present, atheists are beginning the trend of providing what were known as mystery schools. Some are calling them atheist churches. That trend will give them the longer and happier lives without them having to insult their intellect and morals.

They know how utterly stupid and brain killing idol worship of a genocidal son murdering god can be. They have seen what it does to Christians and Muslims.

They are not interested in growing atheism with inquisitions and jihads.
That is why countries with less religiosity are more peaceful and law abiding.

Regards
DL


But most atheists know hardly anything about religion or theology. They are only guided by their own egos.

Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens (RIP) are the perfect examples. They are experts in their field, so they assume they are experts in every field.

In reality, they have a 7th grade education in religion and theology. Watching them "debate" is embarrassing because of their ignorance.

I include you in this group because of your cliche generalizations and obvious narcissism.

Oh and regards to your ignorant assumptions, I was an atheist for 10 years until I began my own study. I know how you people think.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:27 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:[Yes, although not all believers are intelligent, of course.

Religious people live better lives than atheists do. That's proven by the social sciences.

Being religious means a better life in this world (happier, live longer, less depression, less suicide, more giving) and hopefully a much better life in the next.


Better is a subjective thing.

Sure the religious live a bit longer and happier lives, but to a thinker, as compared to a sheeple, cannot see being a sheeple as better than a thinker.

The small difference is not enough to make an atheist put his mind in intellectual and especially moral dissonance.

We value our minds and truth more than theists. By we I mean thinkers, not atheists. Not being an atheist, I cannot speak for them.

At present, atheists are beginning the trend of providing what were known as mystery schools. Some are calling them atheist churches. That trend will give them the longer and happier lives without them having to insult their intellect and morals.

They know how utterly stupid and brain killing idol worship of a genocidal son murdering god can be. They have seen what it does to Christians and Muslims.

They are not interested in growing atheism with inquisitions and jihads.
That is why countries with less religiosity are more peaceful and law abiding.

Regards
DL


But most atheists know hardly anything about religion or theology. They are only guided by their own egos.

Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens (RIP) are the perfect examples. They are experts in their field, so they assume they are experts in every field.

In reality, they have a 7th grade education in religion and theology. Watching them "debate" is embarrassing because of their ignorance.

I include you in this group because of your cliche generalizations and obvious narcissism.

Oh and regards to your ignorant assumptions, I was an atheist for 10 years until I began my own study. I know how you people think.


I am a Gnostic Christian and if you can't even get that right you are too stupid for me to bother with.

You are also ignoring all the surveys that show that most atheists are better educated about you religion than most of the sheeple.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:31 pm

Gnostic "Christians" are even more ignorant than atheists are. You're like the New Age movement. You believe things that have been proven false.

For example, Gnostics deny the crucifixion of Christ when almost all scholars believe Christ was indeed crucified.

It doesn't surprise me that you support atheism so much.

Go study the Gospels and quit wasting everyone's time.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby bahman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:55 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

Belief is a mental state that suggests that there is something out there. It acts intelligently so we can conclude that an intelligent person responsible for it if we accept the argument, which is, I) There is an intelligent act (an intelligent act being an act which is directed to somewhere), II) Intelligent act is caused by an intelligent person, III) Therefore there is an intelligent person. I, however, don't see any difference between natural and supernatural except that the first is common whereas the second is rare. They are both caused.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby surreptitious75 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:47 am

Any so called supernaturnal phenomena that is objectively real is natural by definition
And so if it is caused and can be demonstrated to exist then it cannot be supernatural
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:17 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:Gnostic "Christians" are even more ignorant than atheists are. You're like the New Age movement. You believe things that have been proven false.

For example, Gnostics deny the crucifixion of Christ when almost all scholars believe Christ was indeed crucified.


That is an outright lie as most do not even believe a miracle working Jesus existed.

Thanks for the great ending.

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DL
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:20 pm

bahman wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

Belief is a mental state that suggests that there is something out there. It acts intelligently so we can conclude that an intelligent person responsible for it if we accept the argument, which is, I) There is an intelligent act (an intelligent act being an act which is directed to somewhere), II) Intelligent act is caused by an intelligent person, III) Therefore there is an intelligent person. I, however, don't see any difference between natural and supernatural except that the first is common whereas the second is rare. They are both caused.


Rare?

I hope you do not mean the 7th hand hearsay in holy books.

Tell us what you have seen please or know of miracle as facts please.

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DL
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:13 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
bahman wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

Belief is a mental state that suggests that there is something out there. It acts intelligently so we can conclude that an intelligent person responsible for it if we accept the argument, which is, I) There is an intelligent act (an intelligent act being an act which is directed to somewhere), II) Intelligent act is caused by an intelligent person, III) Therefore there is an intelligent person. I, however, don't see any difference between natural and supernatural except that the first is common whereas the second is rare. They are both caused.


Rare?

I hope you do not mean the 7th hand hearsay in holy books.

Tell us what you have seen please or know of miracle as facts please.

Regards
DL


Here are a few associated with Christianity.

https://www.magiscenter.com/contemporar ... charist-2/
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:41 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:[

Belief is a mental state that suggests that there is something out there. It acts intelligently so we can conclude that an intelligent person responsible for it if we accept the argument, which is, I) There is an intelligent act (an intelligent act being an act which is directed to somewhere), II) Intelligent act is caused by an intelligent person, III) Therefore there is an intelligent person. I, however, don't see any difference between natural and supernatural except that the first is common whereas the second is rare. They are both caused.[/quote]

Rare?

I hope you do not mean the 7th hand hearsay in holy books.

Tell us what you have seen please or know of miracle as facts please.

Regards
DL[/quote]

Here are a few associated with Christianity.

https://www.magiscenter.com/contemporar ... charist-2/[/quote]

I figured. Nothing concrete.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby promethean75 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:12 pm

@ freespirit; see hume's argument against miracles and russell's 'natural law' argument. i'd get the links for you but my iced mocha just blew up and i've got whipped cream all over my fingers. i shouldn't even be posting this much. you owe me.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:26 pm

promethean75 wrote:@ freespirit; see hume's argument against miracles and russell's 'natural law' argument. i'd get the links for you but my iced mocha just blew up and i've got whipped cream all over my fingers. i shouldn't even be posting this much. you owe me.


Hume and Russell were both atheists that refused to allow the possibility for scientifically verified miracles.

Pardon me while I reject their atheism.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:27 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:[

Belief is a mental state that suggests that there is something out there. It acts intelligently so we can conclude that an intelligent person responsible for it if we accept the argument, which is, I) There is an intelligent act (an intelligent act being an act which is directed to somewhere), II) Intelligent act is caused by an intelligent person, III) Therefore there is an intelligent person. I, however, don't see any difference between natural and supernatural except that the first is common whereas the second is rare. They are both caused.


Rare?

I hope you do not mean the 7th hand hearsay in holy books.

Tell us what you have seen please or know of miracle as facts please.

Regards
DL[/quote]

Here are a few associated with Christianity.

https://www.magiscenter.com/contemporar ... charist-2/[/quote]

I figured. Nothing concrete.

Regards
DL[/quote]

You didn't read it.

You atheists always reject anything that exposes your materialist world view.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:40 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
FreeSpirit1983 wrote:[

Belief is a mental state that suggests that there is something out there. It acts intelligently so we can conclude that an intelligent person responsible for it if we accept the argument, which is, I) There is an intelligent act (an intelligent act being an act which is directed to somewhere), II) Intelligent act is caused by an intelligent person, III) Therefore there is an intelligent person. I, however, don't see any difference between natural and supernatural except that the first is common whereas the second is rare. They are both caused.


Rare?

I hope you do not mean the 7th hand hearsay in holy books.

Tell us what you have seen please or know of miracle as facts please.

Regards
DL


Here are a few associated with Christianity.

https://www.magiscenter.com/contemporar ... charist-2/[/quote]

I figured. Nothing concrete.

Regards
DL[/quote]

You didn't read it.

You atheists always reject anything that exposes your materialist world view.[/quote]

I might have missed something but as I said, I saw nothing concrete.

If you had anything in particular, I am sure your would have highlighted it.

I agree that atheists reject your fantasies for what they are.

Thanks for trying to label me such out of your frustration in having me thing as delusionally as you do.

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:58 pm

DL,

You didn't read it. You are willfully ignorant.

It's OK. Many atheists are.

Regards,
Brian
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby bahman » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:52 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Rare?

Yes.

Greatest I am wrote:I hope you do not mean the 7th hand hearsay in holy books.

No. It is based on my spiritual experience.

Greatest I am wrote:Tell us what you have seen please or know of miracle as facts please.

They can read my mind and put thoughts inside my mind in a way that I feel that it is my thoughts. They are very powerful and there is a hierarchy within them.
Last edited by bahman on Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Silhouette » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:28 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:You atheists always reject anything that exposes your materialist world view.

An inelegant stereotype. I am an atheist and not a materialist. There is nothing about atheism that dictates worldview beyond literally "without God". Anything else is on the table.

In terms of established worldviews, mine probably most closely fits Panpsychism, but I have ironed out the issues in this and all other worldviews in my own Experientialism.

There is zero need for religious narrative in either of these, and inserting a token Deistic "God" into the vocabulary serves no use.

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:But most atheists know hardly anything about religion or theology. They are only guided by their own egos.

Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens (RIP) are the perfect examples. They are experts in their field, so they assume they are experts in every field.

In reality, they have a 7th grade education in religion and theology. Watching them "debate" is embarrassing because of their ignorance.

Dawkins, maybe. Hitchens simply brought up scripture and presented it for what it is without mercy. Harris has a mastery of philosophy that is on par with the best of them, and far beyond mere experts. He even differs with the 4th horseman of the counter-apocalypse, Dennett, with his monist Materialism that I too rejected back in university. None of them think they're experts in every field just because they are in their own field.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby promethean75 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:43 pm

You atheists always reject anything that exposes your materialist world view.


nuh-uh, not me. i love it. 'cause we are living in a material world, and i am uh material girl
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:39 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:DL,

You didn't read it. You are willfully ignorant.

It's OK. Many atheists are.

Regards,
Brian


You did not read where I said I was not an atheist, ass hole, but thanks for not showing your best proof.

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:44 pm

bahman wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Rare?

Yes.

Greatest I am wrote:I hope you do not mean the 7th hand hearsay in holy books.

No. It is based on my spiritual experience.

Greatest I am wrote:Tell us what you have seen please or know of miracle as facts please.

They can read my mind and put thoughts inside my mind in a way that I feel that it is my thoughts. They are very powerful and there is a hierarchy within them.


Rather like a cosmic consciousness.
It happens that I believe in that, to a point only, because I don't know if I could differentiate it from what Jung and Freud called our Father Complex.

I have no way of knowing if that is what I telepathically found or a cosmic consciousness.
Sight does not work in our minds and I could not tell if I was outside of my body or within it.

Why are you choosing the supernatural view instead of the natural view?

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby bahman » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:18 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Why are you choosing the supernatural view instead of the natural view?

I only believe in natural. There are natural phenomena that are rare. People call this supernatural. Otherwise, natural.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:11 pm

bahman wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Why are you choosing the supernatural view instead of the natural view?

I only believe in natural. There are natural phenomena that are rare. People call this supernatural. Otherwise, natural.


Goody good.

I agree.

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby surreptitious75 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:28 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:
You atheists always reject anything that exposes your materialist world view

I dont reject it but am merely sceptical about something for which there is no evidence
I would still be an atheist even if materialism was shown not to be the totality of reality
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