Intent

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Re: Intent

Postby encode_decode » Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:57 am

Wendy, I like the down-to-earth aspect of your OP but it does not back onto much detail in how there are such things as a higher self and lower self.

WendyDarling wrote:For Leyla, Obsrvr, or anybody in the know:Did James explain further about what a diary of joy would entail? Like what qualifies? I ask because some types of joy arise from our lower selves, such as laughing when others fall or at Iambiguous’ jackassery.

What are you talking about? Lower selves?

I am not sure instinct drives you to laugh at others and I am not sure your unconscious self does that either. Are you talking in terms of a despicable self or something?

Whatever the case is, joy is much more than just constant laughter. I would say that laughter acts just as any other malfunction does but that is a complex subject. Before anyone says it, malfunction: a failure to function in a normal or satisfactory manner. I am glad I am not constantly laughing - you know - when driving, walking, and eating along with others - drinking. Things would get messed up very quickly through this type of functioning - if this was a perpetual state. Aspiration is more like the direction that the positive aspects of your nature are geared toward like optimism and hope - based around goals. Intent is no different from intention or purpose - these are things you decide on in terms of short-term and long-term goals. This is just about the inner conflict that we all can never escape - and why would anyone ever truly want to escape this, one would become a fool.

Being positive all the time sounds good but in practice is nonsense - this type of thinking comes from separating one's self from nature - and strange as it sounds - forgetting that you were once a child. Children have no problem making meaning for themselves - adults often become chronically imbalanced - yes, all adults. Nature forced us to do real things, not the nonsense we have invented for ourselves. We invented the idea of stressing out over a mortgage or car payment - I am sure you can use your imagination to further this general concept. The idea is just to align in a positive way in a more general sense and be ready for the unexpected - hope is just a drop in substitute for when the world disables your optimism and you can lose hope too in a shitty world - no one has the right to take away your hope.

In terms of selves, it would appear children don't really have a despicable self, they just lack wisdom is all...

...and because I like to get real about life I wrote this > The final reality(a form of mind) is completely artificial(simulated). This is the man-made reality...and before you even get to that point there is a point before this evolution, and as such: This artificial reality is perverse - is unnatural. We evolve many times in our lifetime - there are many things that we would have preferred not to do when viewed with hindsight...

...you can not avoid that which forces you - manmade or natural. Realigning to your real self as opposed to this fantasy we have all created is one of the reality checks we have available if we so choose to use it. So as you put it in your OP - just try and avoid that lower self - these are just simple decisions - not difficult at all. Actually not all of how you stated the lower self is a bad thing. I have adjusted my words here to fit how I perceive the states in this communicative situation to be - a more pure self is a different issue - these are the crude basics - kinda sad come to think of it when reflecting on the world.
Last edited by encode_decode on Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Intent

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:45 am

WendyDarling wrote:
Leyla wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:The fundamental purpose of all living things -
    Maximize the Integral (total sum) of Joy Over (through) Time.

It takes a little practice - but it definitely works. :D

If I may ask: What exactly are you doing when you practice MIJOT?

When I asked James about it, he referred me to this post https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... k#p2568931 and suggested to keep a „Diary of Joy“.

Does it work for you like that?

For Leyla, Obsrvr, or anybody in the know:Did James explain further about what a diary of joy would entail? Like what qualifies? I ask because some types of joy arise from our lower selves, such as laughing when others fall or at Iambiguous’ jackassery.

Zookers - someone else noticed James' work. :o

I'm a little occupied at the moment so let me respond to this a little at a time -

When I first ran across James' MIJOT - I was in very much an analytical mind. It didn't strike me as anything inspiring. I just wanted to know if it was analytically coherent with his AO:Physics - explanations of God and spirit - things like that. And that took some thought.

The idea of it is based on two fundamental concepts. The first part I woke up to was his -

    "That which remains in harmony can never perish."
When he first made that statement he got a lot of flack - by people who rarely think. But it didn't take much to see that what he said is definitively true. All you have to understand is the definitions of the words and the whole thing became obviously true - I think they call that "tautological". That was the easy one. The other essential statement was -

    "Joy is the inner perception of progress."
That one wasn't so easy to confirm - and actually appeared wrong. At that time I had no idea of his Physics of Psychology bit. I don't think he had even made that thread - actually he wasn't even on this board. It was on some Buddhist board. So I had to try a little harder with that one. I'll explain that bit a little later. :D
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Re: Intent

Postby encode_decode » Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:53 am

obsrvr524 wrote:
    "Joy is the inner perception of progress."
That one wasn't so easy to confirm - and actually appeared wrong. At that time I had no idea of his Physics of Psychology bit. I don't think he had even made that thread - actually he wasn't even on this board. It was on some Buddhist board. So I had to try a little harder with that one. I'll explain that bit a little later. :D

James had it all together. I am curious though, why was the idea of: "Joy is the inner perception of progress." - what made this hard for you to confirm?
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Re: Intent

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:24 am

encode_decode wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:
    "Joy is the inner perception of progress."
That one wasn't so easy to confirm - and actually appeared wrong. At that time I had no idea of his Physics of Psychology bit. I don't think he had even made that thread - actually he wasn't even on this board. It was on some Buddhist board. So I had to try a little harder with that one. I'll explain that bit a little later. :D

James had it all together. I am curious though, why was the idea of: "Joy is the inner perception of progress." - what made this hard for you to confirm?

The first stumble to get through was the use of the word "Joy". Most people use many different words to express different levels and nuances of feeling good. A reductionist will always minimize the words to simplify the essential concept. James chose the word "joy" as a scale (from 1-100) to express all of those nuances and variations of feeling good - from mild comfort (1) to mindlessly ecstatic (100). Ok - but what does that have to do with "progress".

James defined "joy" as the inner perception of progress but also as the sense of realizing a hope.

Again I had to look at his particular intention for that word - "progress". Again for most people the word "progress" implies that there is a conscious goal being sought and "progress" is advancement toward that goal. But joy is often recognized even when there is no conscious goal in mind. So how was James using the word? That part gets a little harder to piece together. If it is merely a nice pretty day - calm - kids playing down the street - no worries - no thoughts of the evils of the world - it can be felt as a lightly joyous day - so how is that related to progress (assuming you had not been striving for that kind of day as a goal)?

Notice that he said "perception of inner progress".


I was aware that there is an inner mind ("subconscious" "instinctual" "unconscious" - whatever it's to be called) and a conscious - outer mind. And the two are linked in such a way that the inner knows more about the outer than the outer knows about the inner - so even conscious goals are perceived by the inner mind. But does the inner mind have "goals" to perceive progress toward? It seems so.

James S Saint » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:42 pm wrote:The inherent purpose in all living things is to maintain and protect their inner harmony.

The function of the inner mind is to keep the body alive with inner mechanisms - blood flow - hormone levels - digestion mechanisms - pain relief - and so on. And that is an ongoing - never ending process - the goal of which is to maintain the healthy state. And further there are the alerts that have to be given to the conscious mind - hunger - discomfort - stress - and so on. So for example stress relief is always sought if not already completely resolved (how often does that happen these days). So the inner mind ALWAYS has goals and the "perception of progress" toward those goals is what the inner mind always seeks - balancing the imbalance.

So ok - considering the definitions provided and the rationale of maintaining a body - it makes sense that an inner perception of progress would relate to a positive urging - but is that actually related to feeling good or joy?

James already had defined the perception of hope and threat - PHT - as being what it is that guides all conscious beings (those capable of perception) and the sensation known as joy is the signal from the inner mind to the conscious that something good (something of hope) is being accomplished - perhaps you just got a notice in the mail that you won the lottery.

As I was trying to find exact references for all of this I ran across James' post below (which I didn't have at the time) which might explain it better -
James S Saint wrote:Science has a hard time with definitions, especially in psychology (not exactly a hard science despite their efforts). Philosophers (specifically logicians) form the best and most coherent definitions, not scientists.

All conscious beings are guided by their perception of hope and threat, "PHT". You probably see that as a claim or assertion. But in reality, it is a declaration of definition:
"Whatever guides all conscious beings is to be called 'Perception of Hope and Threat, PHT'."

Now before you argue, consider what the "scientific definition" of "perception of hope" currently is.

Can you think of any? As far as I know, the world of science does not have such a definition. So they certainly cannot tell me that I am wrong. The real question is whether the definition that I am providing is of sufficient usefulness in building an ontology for psychology (to eventually define "joy" in a useful manner). All fields of Science choose their definitions for all things based upon their perception of usefulness.

In an analytical mechanistic science, an entity has hope if it can first perceive (so as to enable remote recognition - "consciousness"), then identify preference (whether rational or not), then intuit or predict a probability that the preference will actualize. The degree of hope is a combination of the degree of preference and the predicted probability. A simple multiplication of intuitively quantized amounts would suffice:

Perception of Hope = Preference * Perceived Probability

And again, this becomes an issue of definition, not merely an equation. Ontologically (in this scenario) it cannot be disputed other than to claim that such would be insufficiently useful and thus something else preferred. And the perception of threat is merely the opposite:

Perception of Threat = Disfavor * Perceived Probability

The concept of joy then becomes the conscious sensation of the experience of that hope being fulfilled or maintained; Probability = 100% (usually via perceived gradual progress toward the hopeful situation). Again, this becomes "scientific definition" if the science community so ordains.

Calculating simple Joy then becomes easy:
Joy = Preference * 1 = Accomplished Preference

Of course the mind/psyche does not function so simplistically as to have merely a single hope or threat being considered. All kinds of body functions, unconscious tones and subtleties, as well as more conscious thoughts and even the effort to form thoughts are all being balanced simultaneously. And every effort is led by a hope or chased by a threat. The final conscious sensation of joy is the summation of the progress of all of those preferences weighed against the progress of the disfavored state.

Thus to get to a truly high state of joy, one must subconsciously be calculating that every effort being pursued through his mind and body are being accomplished. There can be no hope unsatisfied. And that leads to the wisdom of never wanting for what is not already within reach or never vesting hope in what is not clearly to be.

And so now we can equate the more realistic experience of joy as:
Experienced Joy over time = ∑ Accomplished Preferences / time

thinkdr wrote: It is also necessary to explain why "harmonious relations for as long as possible" is the ONLY way to achieve joy. Why not just (as a solitaire game) solving a logic puzzle, or doing a crossword puzzle being a source of joy for a person? What's not ethical about that??

Are you referring to this:
James S Saint wrote:Socially you will discover that in order to obtain the highest possible total IJOT throughout your life, MIJOT, you must maintain a harmony (not a stagnation, but a strategic momentum - a "dance") with your surroundings and especially any people involved.

If one does not maintain a harmony with ones surroundings, one is constantly threatened and thus not achieving the highest hope that would be attained if one lived in harmony and thus could not experience the highest degree of joy (just as the equations above would indicate).

It is not a violation of ethics to play a solitaire game unless doing so creates a disharmonious situation (such as doing it on the job). In most cases, playing such games aids the inner efforts to harmonize internally (usually relieving anxiety/boredom). Keep in mind that Joy is about both inner and outer efforts that are always operating. Ethics comes into play only concerning the outer social effects of choices. MIJOT is the balance of all of it.


..and btw, MIJOT allows for a much more accurate (life fulfilling) economy and governance to replace money. Money is about power and influence. MIJOT currency is about joy and longevity (which innately includes power and influence but in the right proportions).


So that is why it took me a while. :D

And I also saw that another way to put it would be -

    The ultimate goal of all people is to achieve eternal joy
And that directly relates to the ultimate goal of all Christians - "Heaven" - eternal joy.

So my mind was all wrapped up into just those concepts - still not feeling any inspiration from MIJOT. It was just an analytical exercise that led to some interesting thoughts.


That is until I got online (for the first time - no longer an observer - for years) and ran across Magnus Anderson who questioned a proposed dichotomy between survival and joy.

That is when it got far more interesting to me (still nothing to do with a diary) -
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Re: Intent

Postby encode_decode » Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:45 am

obsrvr524

OK, I get the basic gist of what you are saying.

I understand the way James put it well - I was just curious how it translated in your mind.

It is good that you are getting something out of all this man.

.
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Re: Intent

Postby Leyla » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:53 am

WendyDarling wrote:For Leyla, Obsrvr, or anybody in the know:Did James explain further about what a diary of joy would entail? Like what qualifies? I ask because some types of joy arise from our lower selves, such as laughing when others fall or at Iambiguous’ jackassery.

James did not specifically explain to me what he means by joy, but Obsrvr has now clarified that in more detail. In a PM to me James wrote:
Actually, if you have the discipline to keep a diary, I would
strongly suggest that you construct and keep a "Joy Diary", wherein you track how
many minutes each day you felt a smile, perhaps along with why. Also (on the other half
of each page) keep a count of how many minutes you felt badly along with why. Each
day sum the total of the prior day, and plan ahead. The objective is to fill as many books
as possible with the greatest number of minutes of felt joy.
If you could keep that up for a year or two, you would become the "Smiling Buddha"

and
What delightful thoughts (or events) can regularly
inspire you to feel like smiling for at least half of an hour?

If you were to wait for an hour between any one of those thoughts, upon thinking it again, would
you be tempted to smile again? For how long could that keep happening? What if you were to
switch from one of those to another each hour?
Joy (like misery) is a habit. Train your heart to expect to smile, and it will forget how not to


Obsrvr524,
thank you for your responses. I am looking forward to read more about your approach to MIJOT ...
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Re: Intent

Postby promethean75 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:28 pm

I started doing this like ten years ago and all I've got so far is a small pamphlet.

Really a brilliant and effective thing to do, tho. I tell ya that James S. Saint was sumthin special.
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Re: Intent

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:42 pm

encode_decode wrote:Wendy, I like the down-to-earth aspect of your OP but it does not back onto much detail in how there are such things as a higher self and lower self.

WendyDarling wrote:For Leyla, Obsrvr, or anybody in the know:Did James explain further about what a diary of joy would entail? Like what qualifies? I ask because some types of joy arise from our lower selves, such as laughing when others fall or at Iambiguous’ jackassery.

What are you talking about? Lower selves? Angels and Demons, darker aspects and lighter aspects of our fluid self in action.

I am not sure instinct drives you to laugh at others and I am not sure your unconscious self does that either. Are you talking in terms of a despicable self or something? Our less admirable self, for sure. A lot of comedy subject matter is to laugh when people are embarrassing themselves or harming themselves through clumsiness or other inadequacies. The Three Stooges or more recently the show, Jackass, and other such material has always horrified me.

What do you mean by instinct?

Our intent appears in our actions, choices. But as I age, I find my lower self wasting my time towards progressing, evolving into a perpetually righteous selfless person who not only survives but thrives. So James is right, progress is key.


Whatever the case is, joy is much more than just constant laughter. I agree. Maybe I should have specified that too many people get their joy from a pettiness that they are too embroiled in to see how it keeps them in their lower selves, and it doesn't amount to other higher types of joy. Criticality of others usually dims our brightness and cheapens our reflection within, but who has the patience to find the good in all idiots? See it's easier to say that than to actually find the good, easier to be lowly.I would say that laughter acts just as any other malfunction does but that is a complex subject. Before anyone says it, malfunction: a failure to function in a normal or satisfactory manner. I am glad I am not constantly laughing - you know - when driving, walking, and eating along with others - drinking. Things would get messed up very quickly through this type of functioning - if this was a perpetual state. Aspiration is more like the direction that the positive aspects of your nature are geared toward like optimism and hope - based around goals. Intent is no different from intention or purpose - these are things you decide on in terms of short-term and long-term goals. This is just about the inner conflict that we all can never escape - and why would anyone ever truly want to escape this, one would become a fool. I agree, but the more time we indulge in lower self pursuits, such as non-stop judgements of others, we cannot be building ourselves up while we're wasting time tearing others down. Yes, intent is short for intention in my book.

Being positive all the time sounds good but in practice is nonsense - this type of thinking comes from separating one's self from nature - and strange as it sounds - forgetting that you were once a child. Children have no problem making meaning for themselves - adults often become chronically imbalanced - yes, all adults. Nature forced us to do real things, not the nonsense we have invented for ourselves. We invented the idea of stressing out over a mortgage or car payment - I am sure you can use your imagination to further this general concept. The idea is just to align in a positive way in a more general sense and be ready for the unexpected - hope is just a drop in substitute for when the world disables your optimism and you can lose hope too in a shitty world - no one has the right to take away your hope.

In terms of selves, it would appear children don't really have a despicable self, they just lack wisdom is all... I disagree. Children have lower selves to liken with bullying, but as adults we are supposed to overcome the easier path of being mean in our honesty if you get what I'm saying. Measured tact in truth revealing takes vast amounts of precision and conscientiousness. Participating at ILP has taught me that I have huge problems being precise in my meanings. Some scientist/researcher said conscientiousness is one true mark of intelligence or maybe he said it's the overarching aspect(idk, my memory is shot which screws my conscientiousness)

...and because I like to get real about life I wrote this > The final reality(a form of mind) is completely artificial(simulated). Come again?This is the man-made reality...and before you even get to that point there is a point before this evolution, and as such: This artificial reality is perverse - is unnatural. We evolve many times in our lifetime - there are many things that we would have preferred not to do when viewed with hindsight...

...you can not avoid that which forces you - manmade or natural. Realigning to your real self as opposed to this fantasy we have all created is one of the reality checks we have available if we so choose to use it. So as you put it in your OP - just try and avoid that lower self - these are just simple decisions - not difficult at all. I disagree since our higher self requires more energy from us to sustain it, and our lower self acts in negativity, with ill intent, to go after the lowest hanging fruit, the easier route, more often than most are willing to admit. If our existence is need/suffering, it takes a helluva lot more energy trying to maintain our higher selves. Which is more vulnerable for the action taker, the higher self or the lower self? I say the higher self is more vulnerable since it is our ideal self personified. However, we are safer with less stressful challenges to ourselves if we remain aligned and acting through our lower self. Actually not all of how you stated the lower self is a bad thing. I have adjusted my words here to fit how I perceive the states in this communicative situation to be - a more pure self is a different issue - these are the crude basics - kinda sad come to think of it when reflecting on the world.


Is it my higher self who is always trying to fix people or is it my lower self being comfortable amongst lower type situations? Am I truly being noble and selfless by fixing others who always fight against improving themselves or is this my avoidance of the harder job of working on myself? Is it possible to do both at the same time? I don’t know but I am trying to find out.

I am trying to pause before I react, trying to re-evalute my perspective against the many possible perspectives that exist, trying to be more high minded, more comprehensive. I have had some success.
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Re: Intent

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:10 pm

Leyla wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Actually, if you have the discipline to keep a diary, I would
strongly suggest that you construct and keep a "Joy Diary", wherein you track how
many minutes each day you felt a smile, perhaps along with why. Also (on the other half
of each page) keep a count of how many minutes you felt badly along with why. Each
day sum the total of the prior day, and plan ahead. The objective is to fill as many books
as possible with the greatest number of minutes of felt joy.
If you could keep that up for a year or two, you would become the "Smiling Buddha"

and
James S Saint wrote:What delightful thoughts (or events) can regularly
inspire you to feel like smiling for at least half of an hour?

If you were to wait for an hour between any one of those thoughts, upon thinking it again, would
you be tempted to smile again? For how long could that keep happening? What if you were to
switch from one of those to another each hour?
Joy (like misery) is a habit. Train your heart to expect to smile, and it will forget how not to

I think that is just brilliant. I'll explain why later.

Sorry I haven't had more time recently to focus on this discussion - wife, work, wealth, and heath.


Mr Anderson brought up a possible contention with MIJOT thinking that it might have to face the dichotomy of survival vs joy. So I conveyed my understanding that MIJOT wasn't about that dichotomy. I used the analogy of a path to survival being Northward and a path to joy being Westward and MIJOT was precisely aimed at neither - instead MIJOT aimed exactly Northwest. So if you went straight North or straight West you were on the wrong path and not getting to the destination - Northwest - maximum joy AND survival simultaneously.

That seemed to do the trick (I assume) and the discussion ended there. It wasn't until the next day that something occurred to me -

    "What I just explained to Mr Anderson was precisely correct and true to life - so shouldn't I be applying it in my life? Isn't what I explained MY actual goal as well? - It has to be."
And click - instantly the lights came on!

I refocused on my surroundings and realized that I should be trying to feel good about all of this - and instantly I did feel better about it - a very clear relative delight - without any cause other than me just deciding that I should be trying to feel delight when possible - why not. I felt stress go away when I didn't even know it was there. It was amazingly so simple.

I held that general demeanor for a while before I got distracted into common business then had to remind myself - and again - an instant sensation of relief. I realized that it had become habit to generate stress automatically - for no fruitful reason. So I decided to change and make it a habit to do the opposite - relieve stress for fruitful reason. And that took practice of reminding myself to simply let it go. How many doctors have told us that stress leads to all kinds of life shortening health problems (at least 9 of 10)? And wasn't Jesus teaching this very same thing - only without the explanation of how or why?

And finally - this is where the diary issue comes in.

I didn't even know about the Joy Diary - :lol:

But I can see why he proposed that and how it would work.

I was having to remind myself after my focus drifted back to old habits for long enough for me to notice. And that took me having to reawaken to the intention after getting lost from it. And that is a sketchy way to go about it. A person forgets themselves while he focuses on his activities - and later - sometimes much later - suddenly realizes that he forgot his actual goal - lost sight of the forest due to the trees.

I think that Joy Diary prevents that loss of bearings. If there is an independent device to remind you of your actual goal - you are less dependent on having to accidentally wake up to it again. And the more regularly to stay focused on anything - the more of a habit of mind that thing becomes - common sense.

And I think it is actually even more than that.

Something like a dairy and especially an actual graph provides what I would call "cognitive feedback" - something cognitively generated that visually penetrates back to the inner mind when seen - correlations become more real.

How often do you see charts, graphs, and diagrams being presented to Parliament/Congress or boards of directors? - quite often - because those people to an organization are like that inner mind - all wrapped up in their worries but short on correlation information related to their actual goals. That is how nations get self-defeating administrators to commit national suicide as they focus entirely on their personal issues. And that is very probably the same cause of personal suicides - too much futile focus on worries that lower intelligence and create clouds in the mind until even death seems a worthy goal - gaslighted to death by internal vampire like urges (equivalent to socialist urges in nations - nationally suicidal).

Diaries, charts, graphs, and diagrams offer a visual focus on the correlation between relevant activities - what was happening when I started feeling good or bad - what should I avoid or migrate toward? If the inner goal of a mind is to guide itself and the conscious toward the good - obviously the more it can correlate with that good - the more accurately it can make those decisions. Isn't that the whole purpose of having a brain?

I have no doubt at all that MIJOT would prevent suicide (especially national suicide) - but due to the stress relief - it might even cure cancer (and socialism). :D

Personally I didn't use a dairy but if I had known about it - I certainly would have - and I might even start - maybe even charting my wife - :lol:


Actually I think Wendy's thread topic here is extremely important to everyone. People need to be reminded of their actual intent and purpose in what they do so as to not get lost in the clouds that political people create.
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    It's just same Satanism as always -
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    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Intent

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:35 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Leyla wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Actually, if you have the discipline to keep a diary, I would
strongly suggest that you construct and keep a "Joy Diary", wherein you track how
many minutes each day you felt a smile, perhaps along with why. Also (on the other half
of each page) keep a count of how many minutes you felt badly along with why. Each
day sum the total of the prior day, and plan ahead. The objective is to fill as many books
as possible with the greatest number of minutes of felt joy.
If you could keep that up for a year or two, you would become the "Smiling Buddha"

and
James S Saint wrote:What delightful thoughts (or events) can regularly
inspire you to feel like smiling for at least half of an hour?

If you were to wait for an hour between any one of those thoughts, upon thinking it again, would
you be tempted to smile again? For how long could that keep happening? What if you were to
switch from one of those to another each hour?
Joy (like misery) is a habit. Train your heart to expect to smile, and it will forget how not to

I think that is just brilliant. I'll explain why later.

Sorry I haven't had more time recently to focus on this discussion - wife, work, wealth, and heath.


Mr Anderson brought up a possible contention with MIJOT thinking that it might have to face the dichotomy of survival vs joy. So I conveyed my understanding that MIJOT wasn't about that dichotomy. I used the analogy of a path to survival being Northward and a path to joy being Westward and MIJOT was precisely aimed at neither - instead MIJOT aimed exactly Northwest. So if you went straight North or straight West you were on the wrong path and not getting to the destination - Northwest - maximum joy AND survival simultaneously.

That seemed to do the trick (I assume) and the discussion ended there. It wasn't until the next day that something occurred to me -

    "What I just explained to Mr Anderson was precisely correct and true to life - so shouldn't I be applying it in my life? Isn't what I explained MY actual goal as well? - It has to be."
And click - instantly the lights came on!

I refocused on my surroundings and realized that I should be trying to feel good about all of this - and instantly I did feel better about it - a very clear relative delight - without any cause other than me just deciding that I should be trying to feel delight when possible - why not. I felt stress go away when I didn't even know it was there. It was amazingly so simple.

I held that general demeanor for a while before I got distracted into common business then had to remind myself - and again - an instant sensation of relief. I realized that it had become habit to generate stress automatically - for no fruitful reason. So I decided to change and make it a habit to do the opposite - relieve stress for fruitful reason. And that took practice of reminding myself to simply let it go. How many doctors have told us that stress leads to all kinds of life shortening health problems (at least 9 of 10)? And wasn't Jesus teaching this very same thing - only without the explanation of how or why?

And finally - this is where the diary issue comes in.

I didn't even know about the Joy Diary - :lol:

But I can see why he proposed that and how it would work.

I was having to remind myself after my focus drifted back to old habits for long enough for me to notice. And that took me having to reawaken to the intention after getting lost from it. And that is a sketchy way to go about it. A person forgets themselves while he focuses on his activities - and later - sometimes much later - suddenly realizes that he forgot his actual goal - lost sight of the forest due to the trees.

I think that Joy Diary prevents that loss of bearings. If there is an independent device to remind you of your actual goal - you are less dependent on having to accidentally wake up to it again. And the more regularly to stay focused on anything - the more of a habit of mind that thing becomes - common sense.

And I think it is actually even more than that.

Something like a dairy and especially an actual graph provides what I would call "cognitive feedback" - something cognitively generated that visually penetrates back to the inner mind when seen - correlations become more real.

How often do you see charts, graphs, and diagrams being presented to Parliament/Congress or boards of directors? - quite often - because those people to an organization are like that inner mind - all wrapped up in their worries but short on correlation information related to their actual goals. That is how nations get self-defeating administrators to commit national suicide as they focus entirely on their personal issues. And that is very probably the same cause of personal suicides - too much futile focus on worries that lower intelligence and create clouds in the mind until even death seems a worthy goal - gaslighted to death by internal vampire like urges (equivalent to socialist urges in nations - nationally suicidal).

Diaries, charts, graphs, and diagrams offer a visual focus on the correlation between relevant activities - what was happening when I started feeling good or bad - what should I avoid or migrate toward? If the inner goal of a mind is to guide itself and the conscious toward the good - obviously the more it can correlate with that good - the more accurately it can make those decisions. Isn't that the whole purpose of having a brain?

I have no doubt at all that MIJOT would prevent suicide (especially national suicide) - but due to the stress relief - it might even cure cancer (and socialism). :D

Personally I didn't use a dairy but if I had known about it - I certainly would have - and I might even start - maybe even charting my wife - :lol:


Actually I think Wendy's thread topic here is extremely important to everyone. People need to be reminded of their actual intent and purpose in what they do so as to not get lost in the clouds that political people create.

I agree. But “brain” only? Nah, there’s more to consciousness than only the body we perceive easily, but that can be taken up in the brain vs mind thread.
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Re: Intent

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:01 pm

WendyDarling wrote:I agree. But “brain” only? Nah, there’s more to consciousness than only the body we perceive easily, but that can be taken up in the brain vs mind thread.

:lol: I have avoided that thread - by intent. :D

I think (am very certain of) the dichotomy of "brain vs mind" is merely a confusion. And like quantum physics - creates all kinds of magical and mystical beliefs (which are not necessarily bad).

James once explained long ago that a prophet is not merely someone who speaks of truth - but someone who says what has need to be said - and that implies not saying was hasn't need to be said.

promethean75 wrote:I started doing this like ten years ago and all I've got so far is a small pamphlet.

Really a brilliant and effective thing to do, tho. I tell ya that James S. Saint was sumthin special.

I have come to believe that if they could have voted James in as the US President - there
  • would be at least - at least - 3.5 million people still alive today
  • 100,000 small businesses in the US and across the West would still be offering jobs
  • There would be no human smuggling in the US - and far less elsewhere
  • Crime throughout the world would be far lass - especially in the US
  • Google, Facebook, and Twitter would not be manipulating people's beliefs
  • The economies of all of the West would at very least be as good as it was before COVID - probably better
  • India, Australia, Africa, and Taiwan would not be being threatened by China.
  • The EU would not be threatened by Russia
  • Israel would not be threatened by Iran
  • And the US would not be threatened by all of them.
And all without a Twitter account. :D

James knew what was essential in life - war, poverty, mental and physical ill-health, and crime not being among them.
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Re: Intent

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:03 pm

Wendy said ,

agree. But “brain” only? Nah, there’s more to "consciousness than only the body we perceive easily, but that can be taken up in the brain vs mind thread."


Actually, that may be found there, but there may evolve a hidden variable between the brain and the mind, since the scholastics introduced it and that may very well be the soul or the Holy Spirit.

I was compelled to comment .
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Re: Intent

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:05 pm

Obsrvr wrote
And I also saw that another way to put it would be -

The ultimate goal of all people is to achieve eternal joy
And that directly relates to the ultimate goal of all Christians - "Heaven" - eternal joy.


I thought that Heaven=Peace? Where have you gotten heaven=joy from? Doesn't the Christian Bible refer to heaven as a place of peace?

Joy is not the highest emotion, peace is. And for the crotchety naysayers, peace does not equal death. Peace does equal the feeling of wholeness, and experiencing it is not the end of individual consciousness, only the end of need/suffering if you so choose.
Last edited by WendyDarling on Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Intent

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:07 pm

Meno_ wrote:Wendy said ,

agree. But “brain” only? Nah, there’s more to "consciousness than only the body we perceive easily, but that can be taken up in the brain vs mind thread."


Actually, that may be found there, but there may evolve a hidden variable between the brain and the mind, since the scholastics introduced it and that may very well be the soul or the Holy Spirit.

I was compelled to comment .

I equate mind and soul, they're the same thing.
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Re: Intent

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:51 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Obsrvr wrote
And I also saw that another way to put it would be -

The ultimate goal of all people is to achieve eternal joy
And that directly relates to the ultimate goal of all Christians - "Heaven" - eternal joy.


I thought that Heaven=Peace? Where have you gotten heaven=joy from? Doesn't the Christian Bible refer to heaven as a place of peace?

Joy is not the highest emotion, peace is. And for the crotchety naysayers, peace does not equal death. Peace does equal the feeling of wholeness, and experiencing it is not the end of individual consciousness, only the end of need/suffering if you so choose.

Peace is not an emotion - it is a state or situation. People feel "at peace" - meaning they feel a sense of joy from the lack of contention.

The way I understand it - the Bible speaks of heavenly peace in the same way that the Buddhists refer to sublime serenity - considered the highest form of joy - above what any lust could bring - and far more lasting.

And in James' ontology the word "soul" refers to an individual's divine concept - or definition - different than their spirit - being their disembodied behavior. So a "soul at peace" means the very concept of the individual is in harmony with the concept of peace and heaven - "in heaven - where God resides" - in harmony with God.

You use a different ontology - James explained where that ontology came from - but apparently didn't see the need in trashing it (unlike how he handled the "Quantum Magi" :D ). Some ideas - even if not exactly correct - hold no need to be corrected.
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    It's just same Satanism as always -
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    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
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Re: Intent

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:22 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Obsrvr wrote
And I also saw that another way to put it would be -

The ultimate goal of all people is to achieve eternal joy
And that directly relates to the ultimate goal of all Christians - "Heaven" - eternal joy.


I thought that Heaven=Peace? Where have you gotten heaven=joy from? Doesn't the Christian Bible refer to heaven as a place of peace?

Joy is not the highest emotion, peace is. And for the crotchety naysayers, peace does not equal death. Peace does equal the feeling of wholeness, and experiencing it is not the end of individual consciousness, only the end of need/suffering if you so choose.

Peace is not an emotion - it is a state or situation. People feel "at peace" - meaning they feel a sense of joy from the lack of contention.

The way I understand it - the Bible speaks of heavenly peace in the same way that the Buddhists refer to sublime serenity - considered the highest form of joy - above what any lust could bring - and far more lasting.

And in James' ontology the word "soul" refers to an individual's divine concept - or definition - different than their spirit - being their disembodied behavior. So a "soul at peace" means the very concept of the individual is in harmony with the concept of peace and heaven - "in heaven - where God resides" - in harmony with God.

You use a different ontology - James explained where that ontology came from - but apparently didn't see the need in trashing it (unlike how he handled the "Quantum Magi" :D ). Some ideas - even if not exactly correct - hold no need to be corrected.


Ah, I see what you are doing trying to steer this into Buddhism but let's stick with my example of Christianity since I'm not enlightened on Buddhism. Christian's use peace and not joy for a reason; need/suffering still exists while we feel joy, but when we feel peace, need/suffering does not exist. Hence, peace is the most elevated feeling that we can comprehend while still attached to our physical bodies. I agree, it is also a state which is why I was shocked when I OBE'd to peace, literally a place, a dimension, as well. Christians also use enraptured which I am not sure about in relation to joy and peace. I can't speak to being completely disembodied yet so soul covers my spirit as well.
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Re: Intent

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:49 pm

I'm very selective when it comes to people's bubbles of belief - some should be brought into the sunlight and burst - others not. O:)
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              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Intent

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:04 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:I'm very selective when it comes to people's bubbles of belief - some should be brought into the sunlight and burst - others not. O:)

Aw, so sweet. :romance-kisscheek:

[Edited for the millionth time: This moment of joy will be recorded in my Joy journal. When people think enough of me to be gentle rather than attacking with their disbelief, I am overjoyed. Thank you.]

I will try to bring evidence from other sources, but much seems to be based on personal experiences. It’s like trying to convince a blind person that more exists than they can visually perceive, such as colors. I have perceived(seen) a color that you have not...yet.


Skip to :25 where he uncovers the board behind him to discuss emotional vibes/power. Notice peace's placement, above joy which is above love.

I'll return with more evidence. Just remember all Christians (millions) represented in their Bible believe that peace is the highest emotion as well but they refer to it as a place which is true, a place where that is the only emotion you feel.

I looked up the word, serenity, and it means calm, peace, etc, so millions of Buddhists with their sublime serenity are speaking about peace as well.
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Re: Intent

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:11 pm

AF55949C-01CA-4621-9E5D-41401ED86A47.jpeg
AF55949C-01CA-4621-9E5D-41401ED86A47.jpeg (53.64 KiB) Viewed 201 times

The first entry in my Joy Journal.
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Re: Intent

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:29 pm

WendyDarling wrote:The first entry in my Joy Journal.

:lol:
And now I have a little perk in my own joy dairy (although still just mental). :D
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    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Intent

Postby encode_decode » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:47 am

Wendy...Wendy :-k how is that man of yours doing? Not working too hard I hope - assuming you guys are still together that is, otherwise my apologies for bringing it up.

WendyDarling wrote:What do you mean by instinct?

Built-in fixed patterns of behavior - non-programmable but nonetheless connected to the rest of your being. Next up the unconscious that can be programmed. And then on top of that the conscious - the part that your awareness connects to and can give the illusion that you are in full control. That is the basic hierarchy excluding a couple of facets unseen to most people these days because of the unavoidable indoctrination that was once based on the facts and is now being poisoned by...

...bullshit...

...but yeah the good old instinct that we can pretty much prove beyond any reasonable doubt - unless you believe there are no relatively fixed patterns...

...to which I would reply - why does everything not fly apart?
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Re: Intent

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:29 am

encode_decode wrote:Wendy...Wendy :-k how is that man of yours doing? Not working too hard I hope - assuming you guys are still together that is, otherwise my apologies for bringing it up.

WendyDarling wrote:What do you mean by instinct?

Built-in fixed patterns of behavior - non-programmable but nonetheless connected to the rest of your being. Next up the unconscious that can be programmed. And then on top of that the conscious - the part that your awareness connects to and can give the illusion that you are in full control. That is the basic hierarchy excluding a couple of facets unseen to most people these days because of the unavoidable indoctrination that was once based on the facts and is now being poisoned by...

...bullshit...

...but yeah the good old instinct that we can pretty much prove beyond any reasonable doubt - unless you believe there are no relatively fixed patterns...

...to which I would reply - why does everything not fly apart?


Woah, no way...bullshit? Never heard of that before! :wink:
I’ll need more insight from you, please.

When we check in on each other, Joker’s told me that he is doing well on his own as am I.

Since I am not well versed in understanding instinct versus non instinctual behaviors, I am without any worthwhile response. Still wondering what you meant by simulation and man-made reality in your earlier post?
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Re: Intent

Postby encode_decode » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:45 am

Hahaha :lol: sometimes people make us smile for the good in what they say...

WendyDarling wrote:Woah, no way...bullshit? Never heard of that before! :wink:
I’ll need more insight from you, please.

When we check in on each other, Joker’s told me that he is doing well on his own as am I.

Since I am not well versed in understanding instinct versus non instinctual behaviors, I am without any worthwhile response. Still wondering what you meant by simulation and man-made reality in your earlier post?

Nice Wendy, I really like how you jumped straight on that - rare these days - leaves us with people jumping on the labels instead of the substance. Keep the shysters honest, Wendy, don't let anyone take that away from you.

Let me think about this some more and leave you with this for now: the behavior of a child touching a hot stove and never doing that again becomes fixed very quickly.

Then there is the mechanism that causes the fixedness. Underlay by what I think of as a pattern...even smart biologists think about this...perhaps more later...

As for your higher self - seems to me you are already on a pretty good path - I say to people keep your ideas complementary to all your other ideas because your ideas are the sap that binds you - protective.
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Re: Intent

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:04 am

obsrvr524 wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:The first entry in my Joy Journal.

:lol:
And now I have a little perk in my own joy dairy (although still just mental). :D

Dairy? Which? Whole, 2%, 1%, fat free joy or is there an intolerance so opting for a pre-processed, alternative to joy? :evilfun:
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Re: Intent

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:19 am

No no. The fat doesn't matter at all - as long as you get it from the right tit.
8-[


Personally I'm right handed -- so -- O:)
Last edited by obsrvr524 on Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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