a new understanding of today, time and space.

[Peter Kropotkin]

It is late and I am waiting for the pills to kick in, so if I start drifting,
you know why.

Ethics. How does my thoughts that we are one with star stuff affect ethics?

Ethics, morality, how do I treat my fellow man?
We are the same, you and I. We are just one more form of material that is atoms.
Treating you badly is the same as treating me badly because we came from the same place,
created by the same forces, atoms doing the same things as Lego's and rebuilding over and over
again. I cannot treat you badly simply because we are the same. the ocean and the sky and the land,
the same building blocks that made you and me. Atoms being busy with different designs but using
the same matter with the same rules of physics and chemistry and biology that runs through everything
else in our solar system. We have a commonality because we exist from the same matter, the same rules,
the same biology, just slightly different form. To damage you is to damage me is to damage every single
other biological entity in our solar system for we are the same and you can add all the inorganic matter
in our universe which arises from the exact processes that created you and me. the question of ethics
just became a whole lot easier because we are one and the same and only a very silly human, would on
purpose, damage themselves. And the pills are doing their magic, so off to bed I go.

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

If you properly understand this idea of how the universe is connected,
then certain matters become clearer. for example, asking what is the meaning
of life? What is the meaning of life is one of the cornerstones of human existence.
We all ask it? I have been asking for over 40 years and still haven't found the answer/
a answer that works. But why? why is finding an answer to the meaning of life so
hard, indeed impossible. We have roughly 7 billion people on planet earth, ask
all 7 billion people, what is the meaning of life and you are likely to get 7 billion answers
AND ALL 7 BILLION ANSWERS COULD BE WRONG! Why? because how would you decide
you have a right answer? By what means and what criteria would use to decide what is
the correct answer to the question of "what is the meaning of life?" The meaning of life is.....
how do you know your answer is right? The meaning of life for me is...... you have now narrowed
down the question to one person with no way to check on the answer. By answering with
"the meaning of life for me is..... you have taken away any universality of the question thus rending
it irrelevant. I could say the meaning of life is watching reruns of the tv show "bones" and by what
standard would I be right or wrong? There is no way to show the correctness or wrongness for any answer
given to the question, what is the meaning of life?

Kropotkin

[phyllo]

We have roughly 7 billion people on planet earth, ask
all 7 billion people, what is the meaning of life and you are likely to get 7 billion answers
AND ALL 7 BILLION ANSWERS COULD BE WRONG! Why? because how would you decide
you have a right answer? By what means and what criteria would use to decide what is
the correct answer to the question of "what is the meaning of life?"

Why do you keep posting?

Why do you keep telling us things?
You give us your answers about God, the universe, ethics, etc.
Why?

[James S Saint]

We have roughly 7 billion people on planet earth, ask
all 7 billion people, what is the meaning of life and you are likely to get 7 billion answers
AND ALL 7 BILLION ANSWERS COULD BE WRONG! Why? because how would you decide
you have a right answer? By what means and what criteria would use to decide what is
the correct answer to the question of "what is the meaning of life?"

Typical invalid logic. Not knowing that you are right does not make you wrong.

There is no way to show the correctness or wrongness for any answer
given to the question, what is the meaning of life?

Kropotkin

..no way to show it to YOU. The blind cannot see (I hear that is what makes them blind).

[Peter Kropotkin]

So how does this connectedness of the universe influence other aspects
of our lives. If we are connected with the ocean and the sky (and we are)
then how can we in good conscience pollute the earth, sea and sky? We cannot.
it would be like polluting our living room or our bedroom. Science has confirmed
that we are now in the midst of another extinction event. We are risking our very
existence with this extinction event. the earth is a balancing act with each part
needed the other part to stay balance. If one piece fails, it will cause the other
pieces to fail. This morning we celebrate the United States Supreme court actually
doing the right thing, two days in a row, however let us not forget the basic foundation
of our existence. We are looking at events from a purely human perspective and we
are forgetting that we have to also pay attention to the basics which are survival of
the race events. We are tied up in so much crap, we are forgetting to look around.
We are focused too small and need to widen our focus. Which is why understanding
that we are connected to everything helps. We must learn the wisdom to understand
what is really important. anything Kardashian is not important, understanding who we are,
important. Seeing how we are connected to the universe, important and more importantly,
understanding our connection means we must become active participants in our world.
We must balance our lives. We must become environmentalist and conservers of our world
and we must become forward looking and act upon the past, present and future.
It sounds like a difficult task but what is needed is wisdom. the lesson we need to learn
is when do we act and what action is needed. We must become observant of the universe.
To use Nietzsche's words, we must learn to dance. Dancing requires a soft touch and
a balance and must have a stretching of both intellect and emotional sides of us.
To dance is to become both aware of our environment and our dancing partner.
We can do this. We can learn when to lead and when to follow, when to adjust our
movement. Our dancing partner......the environment, the universe.
You need to learn how to flow and dance with the universe.

those who don't or won't understand me, that is ok. I don't mind.
I can only deal with what I can deal with. The rest is out of my hands.

Kropotkin

[phyllo]

No criteria. No reason to believe that he is right. Yet on he goes. Babble on.

[Peter Kropotkin]

No criteria. No reason to believe that he is right. Yet on he goes. Babble on.

K: If you want my advice, here it is, DON'T READ. Pretty simple. don't read me.

Kropotkin

[phyllo]

K: If you want my advice, here it is, DON'T READ. Pretty simple. don't read me.

Where am I to get my comic relief if I stop reading your posts?

For example, in this thread :

On June 16, 2015 PK wrote :
The United States Supreme Court has a bunch of partisans hacks (right wing)
who decide law based on personal and paid for opinions that not only lack any legal justification, but
are seriously bad for America, (citizens united for one). They write opinions that don't even pretend
to offer any legal justifications for their absurd rulings anymore. The court exhibits another
aspect that is pertinent to this, the court has made its personal opinion far more important
than what is good for America. They don't offer any overarching principle that might be a justification
for their actions.

On June 26, 2015 PK wrote :
This morning we celebrate the United States Supreme court actually
doing the right thing, two days in a row, however let us not forget the basic foundation
of our existence.

What a difference 10 days makes.

But maybe it's another absurd ruling. Maybe it is more personal opinion.

Who knows? Is there any way to know?

PK knows that if he disagrees,then it is an absurd ruling. If PK agrees, then it is doing the right thing.

[Peter Kropotkin]

After three very ugly days of work, I am back.

If we are connected as I have stated, then these artificial devices used to separate
people are false. By this, I mean those who artificially divide us into the US vs THEM.
The religious is one such way to artificially divide people. US meaning the religious vs THEM,
atheist or Islamic or other such artificial divide. This US vs THEM is also used in socioeconomic terms
and also in terms of national identity. The deaths of people from other lands and other nations impact
us far less than the deaths of our own nation and yet we are just as connected to people of other lands,
no less than we are connected to our own nations people. Our allegiance has grown as we have evolved.
Once, our only allegiance was to our own family, our tribe, then maybe to the village or the small town,
we lived in. As the years passed we have grown in our allegiance to include our little region, then the state
we lived in and then to the nation we reside in. Over a million years, our vision of whom we hold
allegiance to has grown from the few to the many to the millions. Why not expand that to include
all humans regardless of whether they support the same god we do or dress the same as we do or
hold their allegiance to another political system. We are all humans regardless of the accidental
traits which seem to so large to us. The economic or political or religious belief systems we hold do
not change the basic idea that we are human despite the various belief systems we all hold. We are
connected in a basic and unchangeable fashion regardless of our ideological systems beliefs.
We are separated by beliefs and systems that are changeable. We hold some ideological systems
in high regard and some in low regard and yet no one is chained to any ideological system.
You can go from an Islamic socialist to Christian to atheist to democrat to anything. These ideological
systems are temporary, transitory, changeable to vanishing. But what remains is being human.
Regardless of the temporary political, economic, religious system that people may join, we are still
human. That never changes regardless of the various ideological systems we temporarily belong to.
And that is what we need to hang our hat on, not to the temporary and disposable ideological systems
we might belong to but the fact we are first and foremost, human. That is the tie that binds us together.
We are bound by forces greater than artificial and transitory ideologies. We are bound by life.

Kropotkin

[The Eternal Warrior]

Kropotkin is right on a lot of marks, though. The meaning of life is to live and enjoy living. When people disrespect each other or try to lord over each other unjustly, this becomes difficult. Life is like everything. Some times its a dance, at others its a fight at others its a song or picture and some times its like being lost at sea or stuck in isolation on a deserted island. Some times its not graceful at all. People tend to only scratch the surface and avoid the depths for all that they repressed and shoved down there. They try to avoid confrontation and problems both internally and externally. There is a massive rift between nature and a large chunk of humanity for the very fact that that chunk is purposefully trying to obstruct what is natural through any means necessary just so they can keep playing their games of depravity. This is nature fighting back. It's a very serious matter and to make fun of it is a poor coping mechanism. Comic relief? This? This shit is genius. Legen-wait for it... Dary.Epic

[The Eternal Warrior]

I do see what youre trying to say, Peter and it is brilliant. 40 years you searched for an answer that I gave effortlessly at only 29 years of age. I am sorry if that offends you but my goals are the same as yours, so I do hope you forgive me. You said that what we do only echoes for a little while in eternity. I have to disagree on that. These moments we craft day by day- all of eternity has been waiting on. We are the spiritual epicenter for all that is. You are beginning to see this and I commend your spirit. I see your pain, brother and what you have endured to procure all this. I raise you a lord of lords and king of kings to say that you are right.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Phred, the question becomes, what now? You have this wisdom, what is next?

Is it enough to understand the world or do you have to change it?

Kropotkin

[The Eternal Warrior]

The world is constantly changing. What other purpose is there but to use it wisely? What benefit is wisdom if it cant be used to protect this world and keep it free of those who would control unjustly and not in the best interests of all equally. What folly is wisdom that does not get put to use. If everything is sentient and equal in that we share certain similarities, then the wise thing to do is start believing that what you do has an effect and changes things regardless. You posting this here has already changed the lives of a few hundred people who in turn effect others. We already do just by existing, so wisdom guides the fall and flight.

[Peter Kropotkin]

let us recap before I continue on.

1.We come from the same source which is star matter.
2. We, life, everything is connected.
3. This connection is atoms. Atoms work like Lego's creating new forms.
4. everything you see, has had different forms before.
5. after we die, we reform into new matter.
6. This reformation into new matter means we are infinite in nature
7. the very air I breath, was also around in Jesus time and he breath it.
8. The matter (cells/atoms) in me has existed since the beginning of time
9. the matter in me will exist until the end of time
10. the ideologies we hold dear are temporary phantoms
11. born on one side of an imaginary line and you are American, born on another side
you are Canadian. That is how imaginary our lives are. a few feet on either side of an imaginary line
and your life is completely different.
12. These ideologies we hold dear, all the ism's, are not real, they are temporary, accidental.
They are as easily gained and lost as throw away garbage. They mean something only because
we have decided they mean something.
13. if we are connected then we cannot pollute or mess up the environment because we
are one with the environment because we are connected. We are the environment.
14. So what is real when we are connected to everything?
15. we are matter in a material universe.
16. we are time and space.
17. we are the universe and the universe is us.

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

After a break, we begin again.

We are connected, everyone and everything, but where does that leaves us for the future?
As we are part of nature, we look about nature to see what clues nature offers us in regards to
the future. However I see no regards to past or future in nature. In the moment, that is where nature
seems to exist. Ok, let us shift a bit, what seems to be the "meaning" of life to nature?
Life is just interested in recreating life. The continuation and perpetuation of life is all nature seems to
be interested in. You are brought into this world to breed and continue on your species. That is all nature
asks of you. To recreate yourself, continue the species. Fortunately, as a human being I can ask,
what has this perpetuation of the species meant for the planet? I see we have failed to accept accountability
for our actions to this point. Scientist has already stated we are in another extinction phase, killing off whole
species. We are responsible for this. You and me. As we are connected, this extinction phase will also
be damaging us, perhaps terminally. You cannot damage a part of a whole without damage to the whole.
We, the earth is one unit. damage to one part of the whole damages the whole. You cannot damage, say
the forest of earth and not damage the whole. As we extinguish forest and whole species, we are damaging
us, human beings. we are connected. You cannot claim other wise. If we are going to continue this path of
extinguishing earth for our pleasure, then we threaten humanity and the earth. To those who claim I
exaggerate or over claim the dangers, to you I say, the possible end of humankind lies on your head.
to you I say, you are the threat to the human race and the earth. The weight of existence lies on your head
and heart and nothing you say here will save you or redeem you from this weight of existence. Hiding from
the truth will not save you from the ultimate sin, which is the extinguishment of earth for our pleasure.
We are connected. You cannot hide from this basic truth. We are connected. Try as you might escape from
this, you cannot. the burden of our very existence lies on your head. What are you going to do about it?

Kropotkin

[liber8]

I think Lenin (and more recently Zizek citing Lenin) said something about how it's difficult to relate to human thinking from an earlier epoch.

[Peter Kropotkin]

After several more days of ugly work, I return.

I am grappling with Aristotle right now and as I was thinking about his "stuff" I began to wonder
about ideologies. Now ideologies are ISM's, Communism, Catholicism, Capitalism, for example.
When do we need ideologies? by that I mean, a man alone, living in the woods has no need of
ideologies. Mind experiment, when do you think in early human history did ideologies become
known or created? Does a family living on the African savanna two million years ago really need
any type of ideology? I don't think so. When the name of the game is survival, do you really need
ideology? Simple existence doesn't require any type of ideology. So when does simple existence
shows us the need for complicated and necessary ideology? At one person, or two people, a family?
A group of peoples? a Tribe? An ideology can be simply a means of rules for social interaction.
think of all the different types of ideologies that humans have had since the beginning. Humans literally
have had hundreds of ideologies since the beginning of human history. Which one of those hundreds
is the correct one? Which ISM is the correct ISM? When someone says capitalism is the right ISM or
ideology, they really mean at this time and this place because ideologies change and adapt all the time.
The Catholicism of today is far different than the Catholicism of a 1000 years ago and that Catholicism
is different than the Catholicism of 500 years ago. Which Catholicism was the correct one? this change
and adaptation of ISM's means that the democracy of the Pericles Athens is different than the democracy
of today and yet they still carry the same name, democracy. Two ISM's of the same name which are
quite different. If ISM's can change and become different even while being called the same name,
what is its value? Why hold certain values if they become obsolete as they must. Review your ideologies
and see your place in the universe and do your ideologies coincide with your place in the universe?
If your place and your ideologies are different, you are part of modern society in which the separation
of ideologies and what is happening in the ground means that ideologies no longer represent us and our
current lives, have become separated from who we are and this is the modern dilemma. We have become
separated from our ideologies and thus we are lost. If ideologies form the framework of our lives, then
we have become separated from that framework. This calls into question the whole point and meaning
of ideologies because this separation creates difficulties in our lives. So removing ideologies might
remove this loss that comes from the separation of ideology and where we are in life.
Think of when the separation of ideology and where we were in life when people
like Galileo and Kepler and Copernicus changed the universe to where the earth revolves around
the sun and began the long slow slide to us becoming a minor and isolated part of the universe and
not the center of the universe that existed before. There are some who still have not recovered from this
change and still hold ideology that is contrary to the reality of the universe. They have
separated reality and ideology and are suffering from this. This is the modern state. We have
separated reality and ideology and thus have become lost. We are acting as if ideology
is the correct version of reality whereas on the ground, the ideology has fatality separated
from reality. do you adapt to the reality or do you adapt to the ideology? Modern conservatives
have fled reality and believe that the ideology represents reality whereas the ideology they
believe in is about as useful for reality as the ideology that the center of the universe is the earth is
useful. they hold ideologies that no longer represent reality and this is the danger of ideologies because
at some point in time, ALL ideologies separate until they no longer represent reality. this is the modern
dilemma. We have people who believe in ideologies that no longer represent reality and act as if
those separated ideologies still have some basis in reality. Believing that god exists is one such example
and then forcing people to live based on the fact that god exists when god doesn't exist. That is another
example of an ideology that is not based on a reality and it harms people. It damages people and their lives.
this is how this separation of ideology and reality is dangerous and must be challenged.

Kropotkin

[GreatandWiseTrixie]

Kropotkin is right on a lot of marks, though. The meaning of life is to live and enjoy living. When people disrespect each other or try to lord over each other unjustly, this becomes difficult.

I think that went way over Peter's line of expertise. You see Peter is one of those internet trolls who ad homs and insults the person behind any idea that threatens his "sciences" while offering no scientific explanation as to why he is right. A mere child.

[James S Saint]

Kropotkin is right on a lot of marks, though. The meaning of life is to live and enjoy living. When people disrespect each other or try to lord over each other unjustly, this becomes difficult.

I think that went way over Peter's line of expertise. You see Peter is one of those internet trolls who ad homs and insults the person behind any idea that threatens his "sciences" while offering no scientific explanation as to why he is right. A mere child.

---^^^

[Peter Kropotkin]

As I have been studying Aristotle, I have also been reading history books about that time period.
I am trying to connect the time period with all its political, social, economic activities with
the philosophy that Aristotle (and Plato and Socrates) were doing. by that I mean, if you read Aristotle
and read about his say, logic idea's and compare them to the socio-economic activity of the day, you
wouldn't even know that during Aristotle lifetime was war after war and economic rise and fall of whole
communities. Yet, Aristotle was writing about logic and the physiology of plants and animals all the while
wars going on all around him. You don't any sense of the current activities outside of random comments
made while writing certain books. Then you look at other philosophers, much later in time.
Hegel wrote during the long wars between France and Europe from 1798 to 1815. Nietzsche served
during the Franco-Prussian war of 1870 and Wittgenstein served in World war one as a common soldier,
but you don't get a sense of any of that reading those philosophers. They were writing as if those events
didn't seem to matter or even happened. These philosophers were writing as if above and beyond those
human events but those human events are who we are (in part) and any explanation of reality must somehow
include those events. As everyone knows, humans have two sides (well to be precise we have many sides as
stated by Goethe when he said, "alas, I have two souls in my breast" which I believe to be an understatement)
Outside of Nietzsche, who else has even approached trying to understand and explain those two sides,
the rational and the emotional which of course N. called the Apollonian and Dionysian. The rational side
was the Apollonian side and the emotional side was the Dionysian. this division clearly is shown in
our modern age with conservatives attempting to destroy everything gained in the enlightenment and
on toward our age. the Holocaust was simply the first shot fired in a long and prolong war against
the enlightenment which continues today. The failure of philosophy that I first notice is in part because
of this war, renamed the culture wars in America that has lasted since 1980. Philosophy has failed to take
into account this division between the rational and the irrational. We must address this in the philosophy of
the future.


Kropotkin

[James S Saint]

As I have been studying Aristotle, I have also been reading history books about that time period.

The conspicuous problem is that while you are doing that, you are filtering and assigning good and bad based upon childhood biases prejudices.

Education merely makes a hateful person more specific.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Peter Kropotkin: As I have been studying Aristotle, I have also been reading history books about that time period.

J: The conspicuous problem is that while you are doing that, you are filtering and assigning good and bad based upon childhood biases prejudices.

K: ummm, that is what we do, we filter and assigned based on biases and prejudices. that is the human condition.
to say you do anything else is to simply lie. The best we can hope for is to balance our biases with
other biases. The world is viewed by relative standards created by biases and prejudices.
In other words, all points of view have the same validity unless it can be shown to be wrong thus one
who claims the moon is made of cheese is easily disproved and thus does not have the same validity
as one who states the moon is made of rocks and has the same properties as the earth and then one
who states that this is true except that the moon doesn't have air/oxygen and with each example we
get closer to what the moon really is despite our biases and prejudices.

J: Education merely makes a hateful person more specific.

K: education is merely an attempt to limit our biases and prejudices, not eliminate biases and prejudices
because that is impossible.

Kropotkin

[jonquil]

If you're looking to pre-moderns, I think the Neoplatonists had a vision closer to the truth about time and space than Aristotle did.

Now we exist in a time when science and metaphysics have again merged, with ideas like quantum consciousness and holography.

[Peter Kropotkin]

If you're looking to pre-moderns, I think the Neoplatonists had a vision closer to the truth about time and space than Aristotle did.

Now we exist in a time when science and metaphysics have again merged, with ideas like quantum consciousness and holography.

K: perhaps the Neoplatonists do have a vision closer to the truth, but as I am still engaged in Aristotle,
I shall reserve my judgements about them to a later date.

And I believe you are correct as to science and metaphysics merging but the question becomes,
what does this mean? For us, for science, for the future?

Kropotkin

[The Eternal Warrior]

Really, you cant claim to understand history. What someone wrote or didnt write, what is truth and what is lie, what people wished to be true and what was. If aristotle wrote of the war, what would he have written? Was he involved or removed? What walk of life did his writings stem from compared to others? A lot of variables. Its much easier to witness life around us and see how those philosophies may have came from similar origins. Place your rough knowledge of history onto todays problems and see if you can find a pattern. That would give you more of a look into those minds than a direct approach. Try to experience life as they did.