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Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:24 pm
by barbarianhorde
phyllo wrote:
What do you do with the priest if the victim forgives him? Is that a second chance for him, if he shows remorse? Do you bring his actions to everyone's attention?

Or should a priest be prosecuted through the secular legal system, whether he is forgiven or not, shows remorse or not? That would indicate that Christian ethics don't work.

Forgiveness is for his soul. Both for the one who forgives and for the devil who raped a child.

He should in my opinion still be thrown in jail for at least a decade and find out what the real meaning is of what he did.

On the other hand falsely accusing of rape is more or less as grave as rape. Women or men who do that also need to be jailed for a good part of their lives.

The only real problem is the proof.

Re: Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:17 pm
by Arcturus Descending

The Church that Christ founded did not teach that men or priests should sexually abuse children and I do not believe that Christ himself, if he was such a great, loving compassionate man, would condone or allow the sexual abuse of children. I also do not believe that Christ would, in order to preserve His Church, hide such a hideous secret and actions and protect priests.

Wouldn't Jesus act in the same way as he did with the adulterous woman : "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more".

Do you think that Jesus would, in actuality, act in the same way?
Here is a woman cheating on her husband and on the other hand there is a man having sex with children, destroying their innocence and their fragile psyche! Do you put them in the same category, phyllo?

Perhaps this is not such an easy answer. It is possible that the adulterous person is only harming herself. So Christ forgives and because of that, she sees the light and turns her life around.

Okay, the next time around she comes back and Christ speaks to her wanting to know why she is still cheating. I think that Christ would have a conversation with her, to get at the truth, to see her as she is. Okay, this time around, he forgives her as she shows remorse. If she returns again, he does not absolve here because she is not remorseful and changing her life.

Would Christ, as God too, forgive a sexual predator that easily? This is a sexual predator and knowledge would show that he cannot so much be helped or stopped. Forgiveness depends on a person's remorse and determination never to commit the same thing again.
I am not sure how a priest would handle this one. If it were me, I would not absolve this man unless I knew that he would go and confess to the Church and the law, what he had done. He could only be absolved and forgiven if he got help and was really trying to turn his life around. I would myself would have to ask for the evidence of that.

That's fine if she stops sinning. But what do you do if she doesn't stop?

Okay, let's say that the prostitute comes back again. Oh, I do not know. lol. When one goes to confession, the priest through God, not the priest, but God, forgives. Supposedly this happens because God realized that humans are sinners, faulty people. I am not sure what I would do if I was a priest if someone repeatedly came back to me and confessed the same thing, especially if it was harming others. I think maybe a priest can refuse absolution under those circumstances but it would depend on the sin. It would have to be what is called a grave sin.

That's where Jesus' ethics don't seem to work.

I do not know about that. Maybe that is because we seem to have simplified sin and made light of it. If Jesus were alive today as the Son of God and also fully human and he were a priest, do you think that he would so easily forgive someone who causes such harm to children? That he would so easily absolve? I do not think so.

And that's a problem that the Church administration has. How to apply Jesus' teaching to forgive 7 times 70 and also to deal with repeat offenders?

Was Christ speaking about criminals here or was he speaking about our family, friends and our neighbors, speaking of their every day transgressions towards us (some that could be hurtful and harmful) - not the pedophile or the rapist or the wife beater, et cetera. Christ would necessarily be a rational and intelligent person and a compassionate one but a discerning, compassionate one. He would not absolve repeat offenders. He would be on the side of the victim. I suppose the only way in which he would forgive would be if he knew that the offender was full of guilt and remorse and was determined never to commit the act itself.

The thing about normal sinning lol "normal"? I think that human beings usually do believe at the time that they will try never to commit the sin again -- the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. We are absolved because we do try and because we do believe it.