Leaping Over the Overman

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Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:58 pm

Refute this. It may be based on some false assumptions about either the Overman or the Last Man according to Nietzsche (who may also have had false assumptions of his own), and if so, I need you to quote Nietzsche to show the assumptions (mine or his) false (or accurate).

Assumption 1: Winning the game of being human implies the rules for winning are built in by a game designer. You can win or lose, but refusing to play is either winning or losing (depending on what defines winning), and making your own rules is the same as refusing to play.

Assumption 2: The Last Man wins the game of being human.

Assumption 3: The Overman is okay with losing that game and making its own game and redefining winning, which may or may not align with what defines the Last Man. But the point is, nobody defines the Overman except the Overman.

Observation 1: If, to be truly Over or Grand, you are the unmade maker who cannot make yourself because you already are everything you can possibly be, in complete fulfillment, all of the Overman thinking triggers responses to the “Who made God?” question, because God is the Unmade Maker (the Last Man is in his image).

Observation 2: If the Overman can be in alignment with the Last Man’s values at points as long as it chooses those values for itself (after revaluation of course)… What if that is how the Last Man was built to win the game in the first place? Wouldn’t that mean the Overman won on accident, that silly guy??

S/he who laughs last… prolly had to go see a man about a horse. Or something.

Over.

Observation 3: Winning the game is fulfilling the love requirement and loving circles around everyone. (Spelling this out for the uninitiated: That game never ends.) Why refuse to play that and beat your chest about power instead? Because love is harder. You have to lose to win. That’s a legit kind of power the fakers aren’t weak enough yet to allow. That’s why you gotta break/reset it (like a broken leg healing weird because it was set wrong) to fix it. Jesus did not come to heal those who consider themselves healthy, but break them. A sword. A fire.

MagsJ… over to you. Iambiguous… you’re up! lol Jk.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:23 pm

I hurt when I lose, and I hurt when someone loses.

I hurt when I win and someone loses.

I always hurt. I’m tired of hurting.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:28 pm

Ecmandu wrote:I hurt when I lose, and I hurt when someone loses.

I hurt when I win and someone loses.

I always hurt. I’m tired of hurting.


Focus on the good stuff. Mothers with newborns wanna die during childbirth and almost forget the pain they are still going through when the baby is in her arms. Something about those eyes :)
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:35 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:I hurt when I lose, and I hurt when someone loses.

I hurt when I win and someone loses.

I always hurt. I’m tired of hurting.


Focus on the good stuff. Mothers with newborns wanna die during childbirth and almost forget the pain they are still going through when the baby is in her arms. Something about those eyes :)


Fuck you and your stupid book. People aren’t even supposed to procreate. It violates the exclusivity problem.

The problem that causes hyper empaths to hurt.

Why didn’t someone else get to be the father?

Why didn’t the child get a better mother.

Your fucking book has made you a psychopath.

You’ve used your womanhood to become an idiot.

You’re still deflecting.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:57 pm

Ec… there are too many fish in the sea for that to even make sense as an excuse. There is no scarcity issue unless you hoard fish like some kind of rooster. Some humans do. It made economic sense when women had less ability to yada yada yada or desire to yada yada yada but then the industrial yada yada yada yada.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:03 pm

Alright Ichthus...

Let’s get into this.

People get hurt feelings when they’re excluded.

Do you have some fantasy about soul mates?

You don’t see it for what it is.

I could easily have a ‘great’ life with about 2 billion women on the planet.

Easily.

How do I choose one over the other?

Ever seen the movie Sophie’s Choice?

That’s a fraction of how difficult life is for a hyper empath.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:22 pm

Let’s just say if God (Time) made it obvious to me (in time) that he meant for two particular people, one including myself, to be together, I would obey God. And maybe the other person but I can’t promise anything. For example, I have zero respect for people who can’t freaking get over their addictions (and mad respect for people who can, because they think God is as freaking awesome as I do). Including myself. Pretty sure it’s supposed to be that way.

but, hey. God ain’t done with me yet. Then again, leopards rarely change their spots.

I’m going swimming. Get back on topic or go away. I’m just being a bitch on purpose, don’t mind me.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:11 pm

Ahh... unless you’re a bitch or jerk when you take it.. whatever you take in doesn’t matter.

In India, China and Japan...

People are revered as saints who stopped eating food and drinking water. Biggest addiction on earth.

I hear the withdrawals aren’t pleasant.

Pull your head out of your ass and welcome to the real world.

Even Jesus attempted to die this way. He did it for 40 days... the angels came down and forced him to take the addiction back up.

You can’t even get your own book straight.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:34 am

lol. Some folks are addicted to fasting. They’re called anorexics. They need to fast from fasting. And fast.

No secret I’m not one o’ those. But we all have our addictions we need to fast from.

Gonna take a lot to convince me to tolerate an alcoholic just cuz I like food yada yada yada.

I’ve been moving my body more & eating less. But. I’m old, so. There are drawbacks to everything.

If this were heaven we would already be mostly alien androids who … ok … if I think too much about it my imagination short-circuits, so I’ll keep that paused.

I heard it’s possible to drink too much water.

Alcohol is poison. Turning water into wine is fine but alcoholics should still fast from it. Just like convicted pedophiles should not work with children. Sometimes our choices break us permanently and we have to live with the consequences imprinted on us at least until the resurrection. How happy are they who learn to love without ever imprinting crap on themselves. But s/he who is forgiven more, loves more. And never trust a leader without scars.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:56 am

Ok.

I know I’m talking to a child right now.

Yogis etc... fast out of compassion and to attain an absorbed state of samadhi.

They are not anorexics.

I don’t know why your toilet paper book means so much to you. But when I’m patching all existence ...

I’ll make sure you get to read it forever.

I need feedback.

Everyone’s infinite consent matters.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Historyboy » Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:14 pm

I didn't know somebody is trying to thing about Nietzsche's Übermensch, but if you didn't find my stories, it must be the American way.
Life is will to power. - Nietzsche; Culture is and gives power and strength - Vollgraff; The only attribute of the mind is that he is powerful. - Aristotle; Mind is dragging us into the future and the heart into the present. - Aristotle; Those who can foresee deeds are born to rule and those who need to do them are born as slaves. - Aristotle; So, what is an aristocrat? He needs to be powerful, that means to be excellent in foreseeing things! - Me; The highest honor belongs to that one who is able to predict the moves of the enemy commander. - Machiavelli; If you want that what you have inherited to possess, you need to deserve it. - Goethe; Culture, which means exactly learning to calculate, learning to think causally, learning to prevent, learning to believe in necessity. - Nietzsche. [Autumn 1887, 10 [21]]; Morals in the narrow sense is the belief that the deeds of the ancestors will be transferred to the descendants. - Nietzsche
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:26 am

That’s only 1/3 the story. What happened to truth & justice? Jk. But you do need all 3 (be, do, end) (truth, way, life) or you have 0.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Dan~ » Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:55 am

Ecmandu wrote:Fuck you and your stupid book.

Don't be hostile or post like that.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:31 pm

It is never over until it is, and even so don't say so until Proven
Last edited by Meno_ on Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:44 pm

It is never over until it is, and even so don't say so until Proven

Otherwise..
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:46 pm

Otherwise


The game forfeits by default
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Historyboy » Sun Jul 10, 2022 3:15 pm

I can put my Übermeter here and see if somebody can reach the boiling point.

Observation 1: Every culture dies covered with buddhism - the religion of the Last man. Christianity is a sort of buddhism. Cultures count: India, Rome, Greece, China, Japan (all primarily white cultures).

Observation 2: Those who inherited those dead cultures were Last men: "eine Art Chinese" - Nietzsche. Except the Japanese, they had some contributions to creativity and love and stars and longings, because they had aristocracy.

Assumption 1: In Europe there were no new gods since thousands of years: a sign that there will be no new nations. Democracy is the elderly phase of a culture, parliamentarism. We are close to die. After that follow empires and buddhisms.

Observation 3: Nietzsche lived at the verge of something similar to republic into democracy. Was that the point of no return for anything unegalitarian? If yes, is that then the beginning of the Last man?

Assumption 2: If democracy is the way of the last man, then aristocracy is the way of the Übermensch, especially if aristocracy is radical.

Assumption 3: If contempt and disgust are the driving forces of divide among different world views. Is there enough of contempt in the world in order to create a new nation out of those who vomit over this world? If yes, then there is enough of weight on both scales to reach the balance.

Other than that the Last man wins the game.
Life is will to power. - Nietzsche; Culture is and gives power and strength - Vollgraff; The only attribute of the mind is that he is powerful. - Aristotle; Mind is dragging us into the future and the heart into the present. - Aristotle; Those who can foresee deeds are born to rule and those who need to do them are born as slaves. - Aristotle; So, what is an aristocrat? He needs to be powerful, that means to be excellent in foreseeing things! - Me; The highest honor belongs to that one who is able to predict the moves of the enemy commander. - Machiavelli; If you want that what you have inherited to possess, you need to deserve it. - Goethe; Culture, which means exactly learning to calculate, learning to think causally, learning to prevent, learning to believe in necessity. - Nietzsche. [Autumn 1887, 10 [21]]; Morals in the narrow sense is the belief that the deeds of the ancestors will be transferred to the descendants. - Nietzsche
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby origami » Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:25 pm

Does modern man cause the end of times, or is he defined by a belief in it?
There's no one thing that's true. It's all true.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:48 pm

origami wrote:Does modern man cause the end of times, or is he defined by a belief in it?


Pharaoh … did it to himself. But. It was done to him. But. It was done for… others.

Understand?
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Historyboy » Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:29 am

origami wrote:Does modern man cause the end of times, or is he defined by a belief in it?


End of culture. You have in Africa people who live the way it was lived 150.000 years ago. So will the whole world reach a way of living which can't be surpassed anymore. They will live in the southern parts of Europe where it is warm, just as most of the Chinese are living in the south.

But basically the entire world is already now intellectually dead since they can't surpass Nietzsche's ideas. The best they can take is to repeat what he said. To copy, just as Chinese do.
Life is will to power. - Nietzsche; Culture is and gives power and strength - Vollgraff; The only attribute of the mind is that he is powerful. - Aristotle; Mind is dragging us into the future and the heart into the present. - Aristotle; Those who can foresee deeds are born to rule and those who need to do them are born as slaves. - Aristotle; So, what is an aristocrat? He needs to be powerful, that means to be excellent in foreseeing things! - Me; The highest honor belongs to that one who is able to predict the moves of the enemy commander. - Machiavelli; If you want that what you have inherited to possess, you need to deserve it. - Goethe; Culture, which means exactly learning to calculate, learning to think causally, learning to prevent, learning to believe in necessity. - Nietzsche. [Autumn 1887, 10 [21]]; Morals in the narrow sense is the belief that the deeds of the ancestors will be transferred to the descendants. - Nietzsche
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ben JS » Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:29 am

How can 'God' be explained away, when it's a substitute for anything that strikes the speaker's fancy?

God is time. God is love. God is the first cause. God is omnipotent. God is supernatural. God has a special interest in the behaviour of our species.

The term is so loaded to the point of being almost useless, yet certain communities are quite attached to it.

As far as discussion is concerned, I can't think of many scenarios where there isn't a more concise word with less baggage to describe a concept or phenomena than 'God' - which begs the question, is it in our interest to keep inserting 'God' into everything? Seems everything would function quite OK without this cumbersome word.

Ichthus77 wrote:Winning the game of being human implies the rules for winning are built in by a game designer.

Complexity need not be intended, therefore, need not be designed.
Complexity can occur naturally due to prior, less complicated, conditions.
Winning's relative to a goal. Goals are the product of the biased.
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As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn't leave my bitterness and hatred behind, I'd still be in prison. [...] For to be free is not merely to cast off one’s chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. - Mandela

Compassion is the wish to see others free from suffering. - Dalai Lama

I can do no other than be reverent before everything that is called life. I can do no other than to have compassion for all that is called life. That is the beginning and the foundation of all ethics. - Schweitzer

If you have any sense my friend, don't plant anything but Love. - Rumi

To love is not to ask anything in return, not even to feel that you are giving something- and it is only such love that can know freedom. - Krishnamurti

We are one, after all, you and I, together we suffer, together exist and forever will recreate each other. - Chardin

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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby Ichthus77 » Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:51 am

Ben,

He’s not being inserted, he’s being pushed out… as if. And it’s not a good look, tbh.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby origami » Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:55 pm

Historyboy wrote:
origami wrote:Does modern man cause the end of times, or is he defined by a belief in it?


End of culture. You have in Africa people who live the way it was lived 150.000 years ago. So will the whole world reach a way of living which can't be surpassed anymore. They will live in the southern parts of Europe where it is warm, just as most of the Chinese are living in the south.

But basically the entire world is already now intellectually dead since they can't surpass Nietzsche's ideas. The best they can take is to repeat what he said. To copy, just as Chinese do.


They said the same thing about Plato until Nietzsche came along.

There are no such people in Africa. Maybe possibly in very select places of the Amazon, and even then they are likely to have motor boats.

On the whole, they still honor their gods, so maybe that's what gives people that idea.

New gods don't harbor change, they are expressions of it. If Nietzsche could create thousands, it was because he was already overflowing. And he was not shy about worshipping the old ones. Not by a while.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby origami » Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:03 pm

Perhaps that is another facet of modern man. An inability to wait.

Perhaps there is a link there with a belief in the end of times.
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Re: Leaping Over the Overman

Postby origami » Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:23 pm

It's a very peculiar view of history.

One can't help but find it endearing.
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