There isn't really a muse thread.

[Mowk]

"My granddad is getting buried in the morning."

Were you close? Planting a body can be emotional.

[Mowk]

Reflection on self: I wonder when calling a spade a spade, if I have involved the editorial aspect of adding "a talking out your ass" spade, as normally I haven't worked with any spades that talk or have an ass and I garden and have played cards. Go figure. Personal note: try to recognize when I have done this and try not to do it again, and maybe remember to forgive when I do, (human nature) so help me, me.

[Orbie]

Now perplexing that not, really, a spade as in anti-jive, but then who knows. Help is on it's way says 411, however don't hold ur breath, unless doing some sort of mantra. In fact, we both know of reductionism where that leads, but if not here it goes: Very basic exposure of elementary logic, a basic difference, and either or, we may or may not.

Understand this: There may not be a remedy at that point, only an Rx of truly inescapably irrelevant, and non synthetic alchemical formula? And if perchance there is which i do not doubt in the slightest, there is no scintilla of evidence, that it has ever worked, it has always led to sorry end, the case of Manet and and his friend with a bitten off ear, or of seasons in hell
and friend, so elementary Dr. Watson.

[Mowk]

Hey Obe, I didn't catch half that, the experience was more like wind blowing in one ear and out the other.

"Now perplexing that not, really, a spade as in anti-jive, but then who knows."

I'd like to believe you've got three really good sentences going on, problem is you seem to have stitched together only a part of each in a row. My reading comprehension is not generally so low, but man you got me scratching my head. Like trying to read a language you're not conversant in, you get a sense but not much beyond that.

Perhaps you're trying to tell me something subtle, like I don't write well. That's a problem, as it makes perfect sense to me.

[Mowk]

"know is a very loose term"

It is and it isn't.

Context perhaps is the key I just haven't been able to grok.

When is it possible that I knew that, and I know that are at odds, save for their respective time/space intersections. Given the potential variability what would all knowing actually look like? To see any time/space intersection from that perspective. This "if" premise, that logic is based on. Given this... then. But what if we don't actually know what we are given? Any "given" isn't anything but assumption. Logic is based on assumption. A guess?

Our senses alone fail in the task. Our eyes just aren't sensitive enough to see the light from distant galaxies. Our ears are just not sensitive enough to hear a whales song. Our sense of smell can't even provide us a trail to follow back home. And touch doesn't seem to work at all unless our atoms are smashing into each other. And what we taste as a sense it seems is more than subject to cultural conditioning. And then there is this ridiculous capacity to think. It can think of a way to "see" what we can't see, to "hear" what we can't hear, to smell what we can't smell, to "touch" what we can't touch, and even taste what really doesn't exist. Apple flavoring, nothing apple, involved.

humans are a sorry lot.

Somebody remind me what is fun about this.

(reply)
I am in love with a wonderful gal who teaches me things daily.

I really haven't had to worry about how I'm going to live.

I don't know anyone who makes a billion dollars, and I don't know anyone who has died of starvation; while I am aware, that shit happens.

All in all if it ain't fun at least it hasn't killed me, yet.

Thanks Uni. I needed that, cept the 'yet' part. Perhaps a differing sort of intersection, eh?

[Orbie]

Hey Obe, I didn't catch half that, the experience was more like wind blowing in one ear and out the other.

"Now perplexing that not, really, a spade as in anti-
jive, but then who knows."


I'd like to believe you've got three really good
sentences going on, problem is you seem to have
stitched together only a part of each in a row. My reading comprehension is not generally so low, but man you got me scratching my head. Like trying to
read a language you're not conversant in, you get a
sense but not much beyond that.

Perhaps you're trying to tell me something subtle,
like I don't write well. That's a problem, as it makes
perfect sense to me.

Hi Mowk, I am getting to learn things here, i graduated from college eons ago, so suprises, my skills are gone to some extent. Nevertheless, i keep plugging along, and I have much under the influence of the Andre Breton crowd, and bending toward Georges Bataille. I am chanelling on my inner powers of chanelling, and the disconnects which seem to appear so flagrantly on occasion, are just tryingto leave large spaces beteen thought, toward the purpose of causing challenges, sometimes unnecessarily so, toward the reader. ith that in mind, i shall try to contribute to Your Post, and i really don't like to say this , 'my way'.

[Mowk]

I do rely on labels.

So, odd thoughts stitched together:

My Dad passed away. I was there, was it's own story. Fucks that think when a "soul" passes it "acts like this" are dumb asses.

Empirically, it wasn't a breath that went anywhere else. It was a breath that just wasn't any longer. I ain't saying it was the end and there is no soul, I'm just thinking mankind and it's tiny brain ain't going to grok what actually takes place for some time. We may never get the chance.

[Mowk]

"If your philosophy doesn't grow corn..."

~somebody's grandfather.

Metaphorically speaking, I'd guess. [thought]

[Mowk]

The moment one realizes that life is not a question of who you are....but of what you are.

*Names; are changed to protect both the.....*

[Mowk]

This is really musing.

So, say someone was born who had all the answers the world would ever needed. Just one caveat, it has taken that person a lifetime to assemble it, and it would take another lifetime to document it, and another lifetime to read it. Not a great promise of return on investment. 3 to 1, and add to that the requirement of the sequence.

So, if this tomb were ever to be published. it would take a lifetime to read. Who allows them self that time?

A result; we seem to favor abbreviation. Compression.

Perhaps reality is incompressible.

[Mowk]

"what it is that determines the difference between God and anything else?"

I am of the opinion there is little difference between God "and anything else".

God; on the who/ side is an anthropomorphism and exists as result of what the universe is being and our capacity for creative expectation. On another planet where there is adaptation and cultural influences there would exist an "anthropomorphic application that would be suitable to their physical appearance. The differing incarnations of a God are culturally conditioned. These Gods do exist in a manner of speaking. The creator is the universe itself. The Being of it. There is nothing that exists that is not a "being" of It.

As a result of the anthropomorphizing of a God, a distinction becomes a requirement. Catch 22.

The need to anthropomorphize a god is an interesting human consistency. While the details vary the result is fairly much the same. It fills the need of a personal god. To a large degree it has a lot to do with how our cultures deal with mortality. There is, in this thinking, far more then what we have imagined in actuality. There is every reason for me to believe there is an actuality beyond our sensory and intellectual capacity. We have collective limitations, individually perhaps less so, but culturally those that experience outside of the norm are not well respected unless there is cultural support. Community has played a substantial role in the Gods we have envisioned.

I mention this because I don't know if I'm an atheist or a theist or an anti-theist or an anti-atheist or an agnostic. Could be gnostic, but that would be quite a presumption.

Seems as long as we need personal anthropomorphized gods, we are going to be stuck at the "who/what" side of the equation, and missing out on a whole lot more of the actuality.

When Being does the counting the number is one. When a personal god does the counting there seems always a distinction between one and not one.

Distinction seems a requirement of this side of actuality. When actually on the one side there is some kind of dying taking place to get to this side where not one is a possibility, even if only an artifice.

[Mowk]

Another of life's moments that fall into the "did that really just happen" lot.

The wife landscapes with native plants and was concerned that they were escaping into the neighbors property. In order to assure her the plants hadn't gone that wild I'd have to establish the property line. So I go to one corner of the lot and after a bit of scraping around I find the survey marker. So on to the other corner in question. I poked and prodded but couldn't find the marker, that I thought was somewhere there. What I needed was a metal detector, so I came inside and searched for metal detectors to get an idea of how much one would cost. No way. Back out to the corner with shovel in hand, and just as I start to dig I hear the sound of a metal detector.coming from the other neighbors yard. Turns out they had out of town company and one of them was a hobby hunter and she was calibrating her metal detector before going out detecting. So I walk over and ask, It is an odd request but I was just looking for a corner marker for our lot line and wondered if she would help.

In two minutes she had found both front corners.

And no, my wife's plants haven't gone that wild.

What are the odds? Like butterfly riders.

[Mowk]

Gram negative bacteria, who's problem is it?

Can't count on the machine any longer, so if capitalism finds the investment too steep; who's problem is it?

Do we really want the federal government taking it over? Seems when capitalism fails (and it's not because of a lack of talent) it is either government or charity that toes the line.

Only the most profitable low hanging fruit. A drug to depend upon the rest of your life verses a drug that could stop the bacteriological outbreak.

Man the answer is in our genes. Find the archaic humanoid genes already resistant and synthesis it. Some of our pre-antibiotic ancestors likely already have immunity. It's why the infection isn't fatal to everyone, but if exposed it will take a third of the population without even trying. A third gets mildly sick, a third gets dramatically sick, and a third flat out die. Explain that genetically.

[Mowk]

Ain't that a question?

[Mowk]

I don't know.

The more I have been exposed to the discoveries of modern genetics the more everything seems to make sense. It really appears to be sound in it's conjecture.

The lines of genetics really blur any race issues into nonsense. Cross breeding and in-breeding ran amok. We are the result of many differing cousins getting together and sharing our diversification. Isolation and regrouping, as a plan, seems almost a requirement for >this< result to have taken place. Can it have taken place coincidentally? It's "coincidence" not so much the product of a "personal anthropomorphic god" but of a creative force of the universe; being what it can be.

Morality or ethics has been a question for me as long as I have feigned any pursuit of philosophy. Maybe I "have" smoked too much pot. Opps too late. Or, maybe not. While one does give up one thing for another there will always and forever be the debate of the value in the exchange. Did "god" really design a world where you can have your cake and eat it too? I have found it rather to be an extremely fair metering of reward and consequence, given the variability in what is reward and consequence, and what one is capable of giving up for the other. (I've a really hard time thinking anything related could be a boring subject of extrapolation, Trixie)

I think those that believe that life is anything but fair are myopic and short sighted. What goes around does come around given a broad enough scope. My genes have lived 450k years, and I'm an infant; and I'll be "dead" too, soon enough.

[Mowk]

I am an optimist.

The "glass" is always full.

The question is whether the "glass" is full of what you need.

Example: You have a glass half full of water. A common presumption is the other half contains nothing useful. "Is the "glass" half empty or half full"? One or the other is the answer for some. I tend to the thinking that the glass is always full. More specifically, whether I have need of what it is full of.

If it is half full of water; I need that, and if the other half is filled with air; I need that too. "cake and eat it too?"

Now, if the other half happens to be filled with coal tailing, likely, in the long run, not so good; and as it seems we have a certain difficulty keeping one separate from the other, it's really not so "good" even for an optimist. Go figure!

[Mowk]

No mention of Cecil. The wife got pretty upset by the story.

If I could ask one person anything, I'd ask that dentist, for what reason? The clusterfuck of legality aside, why? Who measures them self by that yardstick? And it's really got to suck having so totally screwed it up. He can't post a picture of himself with his trusty bow and the dead carcass and claim any bragging rights. It wouldn't surprise me if the guide and the farmer dragged a bleeding goat out into the preserve and back onto the farm just in front of the dentist, for just another 5,000 dollars. I mean if you're going to pay $50,000 for the "permit" what's $5,000 for insurance. I don't think the sellers of the permit were counting on him taking out insurance.

And it's not like he doesn't have a prior record for poaching. The man lied to the DNR regarding where he killed a black bear, he killed it out of zone and dragged it into zone and then lied to the DNR where the kill took place, in an effort to make it appear the kill was legal. Sound familiar?

I'm guessing it's either a pathology or genetic disposition or both. And wonder if his family might not consider a suicide watch.

It sucks for me to be lumped into that 'human' cloud.

If god were to come and judge me based on that clowns performance as example of what human is capable.

Maybe that is yet another reason for our quest of a personal god. We believe that the collective environment we create is not our personal responsibility. 'We' make this.

I hope he is not too old a dog to learn a new trick.

[Mowk]

New Muse,

I am thinking, in the larger picture that nature trumps nurture.

I see a high degree of corroboration between differing modes of exploration. The fields of anthropology and genetics support each other. When we find genetic material there is an ability to separate it and sequence it specifically at an individual level of occurrence. We can trace a parent child sequence back thousands of generations to determine where a specific genetic trait has come from.

Evolution?

What are its characteristics? How does it operate? Can sound predictions be made based on its evidence? Over time what are its tendencies? Can a vector, if it has one, be projected? Is there evidence of direction?

This is life as life has been defined. We do not find genetic material that is not associated with life. Evolution does not seem to play by the same moral rules we have invented. I don't think evolution conceives of good nor of evil, so where would a question of common good factor in? Who among us it actually capable of assessing what is a common good?

How many times must we accept an individual assessment as fact? I'm not asking you to do that like so many others do. The questions aren't rhetorical.

One characteristic of evolution is it appears to progress from simple states to more complex states. That would appear to be a vector of sorts.

[Mowk]

growing pains or what? that end of rope just looks too near.

[Orbie]

Looks can be deceiving.See I am improving, .....somewhat.


I never owned a boat, had some strange experiences with animals, birds and insects, though which to my mind do imply some strange goings on. Here, I skimmed over the whole OP, and in my mode of thinking trying to come up with something supporting the fragments. (My own)

The , looking back is very short indeed, and looking ahead is longer yet. And it seems as if, looking ahead becomes longer and longer, while the backward glance shorter still. A calculus of sorts whose function is protective, of the rationality of man. It is a function, and it derives of some early genetic markers as well, maybe, in a secondary way.
In this sense, civilization is the the structural
Manifestation of this process. So it's more than just an anthropological relatedness.

Evolution bears this resemblance out, and it almost looks like a call for a substratum, if not for a foundation. That these resemblances were constructed out of likenesses, and inclusions, and later much later, on exclusion, has other established signifiers in terms of economic, political and social signifiers.

Pre natal and child mortality, does not consume anything out of the evolutionary continuum, since there are no signifiers present to mark transition in time. I believe, that because of this fact, some events never really happen, the are only easily replaceable manifestation of genetic similarities.
The reversal was an unfortunate case of disobeyance,
To higher laws and appearances of reality.

[Orbie]

I would like to add about foreword and backward looks, and when the critical time comes is when yesterday seems to become only momentary, whereas the future elongates toward the infinite, kind of like how temporal/spatial mass changes it's shape,
And those two ends are changing their fabric as approaching a black hole. This analogy works for me. There are some indicators supporting this view.

[Mowk]

Reoccurring thought.

Watching television is for me an exercise in recognizing commercial manipulation.

Recent ad; think it was for a wireless phone company but it could be for a dish TV provider just as easy .

The scene opens with the actor playing the part of a customer calling a sales representative of the company asking about a company's offer that "sounds too good to be true".

The camera cuts to the sales person on the other end of the call and she verifies that yes in fact that is what they will charge for the product they offer. (I personally think they are asking way too much for what they are offering and wouldn't have considered it an offer that was "too good to be true" in the first place and that would be editorial)

The camera cuts back to the actor playing the part of the customer and he asks "...but how can you do that?"

The camera cuts back to the actor playing the sales part and she gets up and starts singing and dancing but what she is singing about has nothing to do with the question.

The camera pans out and pretty soon everyone at the company is singing and dancing about nothing to do with how they can offer their service for a charge that is "too good to be true."

The scene cuts back to the actor playing the part of the customer and he's dancing right along.

I don't remember the company, or the price, or any details of the service offered, I don't even remember how the commercial ends.

Clearly people buy into that sort of advertising.

[Mowk]

In another thread I was challenged to debunk a video.

I did get the coil to spin but it wasn't on it's own.

Here's what I did.

I took 2 1/16" balsa wood boards that were 3 x 8 inches and one 3/16 in 3 x 8 balsa board. I drilled a 1 inch hole right in the center of the 3/16 in thick board and a hole just large enough for a piece of wire to pass through in the center of one half. I cut two 2 x 3 inch pieces of copper foil and glued one to each half of the board on either side of the battery hole. I connected one piece of the foil with a bare wire to the negative terminal of the watch battery ran it along the bottom through the small hole and connected it to one of the pieces of foil. Then I glued one of the 1/16 in thick boards to the bottom. I used a second piece of bare wire to connect the positive terminal of the battery across the top of the board and to the other piece of foil. I then glued the other 1/16 in balsa boards to the top making a sandwich out of the materials. One of the hidden pieces of foil is connected to the positive terminal of the battery and has a positive electric potential. The other piece of foil is connected to the negative terminal of the battery and has a negative potential. The resulting sandwiched board looks like an ordinary 1/4 inch thick piece of balsa wood. The grain of balsa does a fine job hiding the laminated result.

I pushed one bent T pin into the wood block on one side and into one piece of foil and another bent T pin into the balsa plank and into the other piece of foil. One pin has a positive electric potential and the other pin has a negative potential.

As it's just a simple electric motor, ya gotta make up some unique quality about your device that makes it work. In this case a faked "effective" monopole magnet.

The coil is wound out of 30 gauge insulated wire. One tail of the coil is stripped clean of its insulation but the other tail is only stripped half way around to create a simple commutator. When the coil is placed into the cradle made by the two pins it closes the circuit between the positive potential pin and the negative potential pin and a current forms between the two potentials. The current induces a magnetic field in the coil which begins to rotate. It will run as long as the coil stays in the saddle which is closing the circuit and allowing the current to flow between the positive and negative potentials. When you remove the coil you open the circuit and there is no drain on the hidden battery. The motor is actually being powered by a 2032 watch battery hidden in the base.

What I've made is a conventional electric motor but hidden the battery and the connections to it.

Looks quite convincing if I do say so my self. An "ordinary" piece of wood, two pins, a magnet and a coil. (and a hidden battery and a bridge for a closed circuit.)

But don't tell anyone it's a hoax; because it's believed by some to be evidence of free energy.

[Ultimate Philosophy 1001]

Morality or ethics has been a question for me as long as I have feigned any pursuit of philosophy. Maybe I "have" smoked too much pot. Opps too late. Or, maybe not. While one does give up one thing for another there will always and forever be the debate of the value in the exchange. Did "god" really design a world where you can have your cake and eat it too? I have found it rather to be an extremely fair metering of reward and consequence, given the variability in what is reward and consequence, and what one is capable of giving up for the other. (I've a really hard time thinking anything related could be a boring subject of extrapolation, Trixie)

Herm?

[Mowk]

That was from a post a while ago. But why, you ask. Opposition was clearly not working. Regardless of how reasonable I thought I was being, I was getting no where. Too continue doing the same thing became unreasonable. I've not been here before so I'm sort of playing around getting my feet wet. I am sorry I don't have a more complete explanation then that. New vector; lets see where it leads. I am an experimental sort.

I've read some of your other posts. Flummoxed? I suffer from that too. But always play your strong suit. That's what a partner does.You are attempting to revel as much as you can about an unknown hand.

I don't play a lot of cards but it is a particular card game metaphor.