astrology

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Re: astrology

Postby iambiguous » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:00 pm

Dan~ wrote:
Astrology is fake pseudo-science. A vestige of a time long gone when the ignorant ruled the earth.
It is only now believed by fools.

That's like walking into a church and saying there is no God.

And in your mind, you are doing them a favor?
Or why do you say what you say?


Again, with Sculptor -- Lev Muishkin? -- the main point seems to always revolve around him heaping scorn on those who dare to think other than as he does. Whether with me or Maia or Fixed Jacob.

On the other hand, whether in regard to astrology or religion, there are people who do believe in them and as a result of this they choose behaviors that may result in consequences detrimental to those who do not believe in them.

More so with religion of course. Not often do we here tales of those who were deemed "infidels" by the astrological community and had fatwās attached to their every move.

Still, those choosing to embrace astrology can and do make choices that might in fact harm others whatever the intent.

So, sure, why not engage them in critical thinking about their beliefs. How are they able to convince themselves that it's the real deal? And how often does it come to revolve around others wanting to take the money of those who might be suckered into believing in something that has no demonstrable proof to back up its claims.

That's what this thread is for. Though not many like Fixed Jacob are willing to explore their claims with me given my own focus here: how ought one to live in a world of conflicting goods?

Where, why and how do the celestial bodies factor in there?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: astrology

Postby iambiguous » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:30 pm

Your Astrology Defense Kit
by Andrew Fraknoi
(Foothill College)

9. If astrological influence is carried by an unknown force, why is it independent of distance? All the long-range forces we know in the universe get weaker as objects get farther apart. But, as you might expect in an Earth-centered system made thousands of years ago, astrological influences do not depend on distance at all. The importance of Mars in your horoscope is identical whether the planet is on the same side of the Sun as the Earth or seven times farther away on the other side. A force not dependent on distance would be a revolutionary discovery for science, changing many of our fundamental notions.

10. If astrological influences don’t depend on distance, why is there no astrology of stars, galaxies, and quasars? French astronomer Jean-Claude Pecker has pointed out that it seems very small-minded of astrologers to limit their craft to the influences of the bodies in our solar system. Billions of stupendous bodies all over the universe should add their influence to that of our tiny little Sun, Moon, and planets. Has a client whose horoscope omits the effects of the star Rigel, the Crab Nebula pulsar, and the Andromeda Galaxy really had a complete reading?


Here of course you may as well note all the usual questions that atheists have accumulated over the years to pepper the faithful with. As though "details" like this play any part whatsoever in why people anchor their lives to things like religion or astrology or tarot cards or tea leaves.

As though it isn't really all about lives that are often precarious in a world filled with dangers in which we never really know for sure what to expect around the next corner.

Who cares about pulsars and quasars and black holes and gamma ray bursts when you are faced with what can be a make or break, life or death decision here and now in the life you live.

Isn't that, given the "psychology of objectivism", the most likely explains the continued belief in things like astrology. That and, in the capitalist political economy, the part where it all becomes just another lucrative "market".
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: astrology

Postby iambiguous » Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:44 pm

Your Astrology Defense Kit
by Andrew Fraknoi
(Foothill College)

Even if we give astrologers the benefit of the doubt on all these questions — accepting that astrological influences may exist outside our current understanding of the universe — there is a devastating final point. Put simply, astrology doesn’t work. Many careful tests have now shown that, despite their claims, astrologers really can’t predict anything. After all, we don’t need to know how something works to see whether it works. During the last few decades, while astrologers have somehow always been a little too busy to conduct statistically valid tests of their work, physical and social scientists have done it for them.


Here's the thing though...

Take someone like Fixed Jacob. While I don't share many of his own conclusions in regard to any number of things -- such as value ontology -- he's clearly got an intelligent mind that is able articulate points of view that indicate thought out perspectives on various subjects.

Now, unless his defense of astrology is all just tongue in cheek or an exercise in irony, how did he come to actually believe what he does about it? In fact I created this thread in part in order to explore this with him insofar as he connects the dots between value ontology, astrology and his thinking on Nietzsche. Then insofar further as this pertains to that which is of particular interest to me philosophically: "I" at the intersection of identity, value judgments and political economy.

Let’s consider a few representative studies.

Psychologist Bernard Silverman of Michigan State University looked at the birth dates of 2,978 couples who were getting married and 478 who were getting divorced in the state of Michigan. Most astrologers claim they can at least predict which astrological signs will be compatible or incompatible when it comes to personal relationships. Silverman compared such predictions to the actual records and found no correlations. For example “incompatibly signed” men and women got married as frequently as “compatibly signed” ones.

Many astrologers insist that a person’s Sun sign is strongly correlated with his or her choice of profession. Indeed, job counseling is an important function of modern astrology. Physicist John McGervey at Case Western Reserve University looked at biographies and birth dates of some 6,000 politicians and 17,000 scientists to see if members of these professions would cluster among certain signs, as astrologers predict. He found the signs of both groups to be distributed completely at random.


Needless to say, for those committed to astrology as their font of choice in grounding the "real me" Self, that is more than likely to go in one ear and out the other. The brain in between coming up with any number of arguments to explain studies like this away. The studies will always be flawed in some manner...or they will cite their own studies in which compatibility between signs is right on the money.

And then for some in the money.

So, sure, if there are advocates of astrology here able to point us to studies that reinforce their own conclusion, by all means, link us to them.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: astrology

Postby Sculptor » Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:11 pm

Charles Carter, in his book The Principals of Astrology claims to offer a "concise presentation of the essential facts of modern astrology"(Carter, 1973, V). He has no compunction in applying the word science to describe his discipline; "astrology", he says, "is the science of certain cryptic relations between the celestial bodies and terrestrial life". He avoids language of cause and effect and relies upon a personal familiarisation with the topic to prove its usefulness, convinced that practical application will "soon convince any practitioner" (ibid. p14). Mayo (1979, p2) is no less optimistic and sees astrology as "a system of interpreting symbols correlated to human behaviour and activity". He talks of the symbols deriving from the "cosmic space-time energy-system". Although he does not state exactly what this might be. Astrology is a study of correspondences, predispositions and tendencies of human life which are in some way mirrored in the positions and movements of planets and stars. Astronomy has been concerned with gathering evidence of apparent juxtapositions between events of human individuals and societies with heavenly bodies within arbitrarily defined segments of space.

There is no such thing as the "cosmic space-time energy-system". No where does he attmpt to say HOW this all is supposed to work, by what mechanisms are mobilised to affect human behaviour?

Astrology, J. Mayo, Hodder and Stoughton, 1979.
The Principles of Astrology, Charles Carter, Theosophical Publishing House, 1963.

One would have thought that a decent astrologer would be able to guess my "star sign", and I have met many making that claim. Despite my DOB being a matter of public knowledge, none have been able to guess in less that six guesses.

I always love to challenge an Astrologer, they are always either completely wrong or their statments are of such banality as to be capable of being atributed to any person of my age, gender and colour.

As the editor of a Newspaper told his daily horoscope writer "As you will not doubt have predicted I am terminating your employment"
Anyone can write a horoscope, just recycle old horoscopes from earlier years.
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Re: astrology

Postby Sculptor » Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:12 pm

Charles Carter, in his book The Principals of Astrology claims to offer a "concise presentation of the essential facts of modern astrology"(Carter, 1973, V). He has no compunction in applying the word science to describe his discipline; "astrology", he says, "is the science of certain cryptic relations between the celestial bodies and terrestrial life". He avoids language of cause and effect and relies upon a personal familiarisation with the topic to prove its usefulness, convinced that practical application will "soon convince any practitioner" (ibid. p14). Mayo (1979, p2) is no less optimistic and sees astrology as "a system of interpreting symbols correlated to human behaviour and activity". He talks of the symbols deriving from the "cosmic space-time energy-system". Although he does not state exactly what this might be. Astrology is a study of correspondences, predispositions and tendencies of human life which are in some way mirrored in the positions and movements of planets and stars. Astronomy has been concerned with gathering evidence of apparent juxtapositions between events of human individuals and societies with heavenly bodies within arbitrarily defined segments of space.

There is no such thing as the "cosmic space-time energy-system". No where does he attmpt to say HOW this all is supposed to work, by what mechanisms are mobilised to affect human behaviour?

Astrology, J. Mayo, Hodder and Stoughton, 1979.
The Principles of Astrology, Charles Carter, Theosophical Publishing House, 1963.

One would have thought that a decent astrologer would be able to guess my "star sign", and I have met many making that claim. Despite my DOB being a matter of public knowledge, none have been able to guess in less that six guesses.

I always love to challenge an Astrologer, they are always either completely wrong or their statments are of such banality as to be capable of being atributed to any person of my age, gender and colour.

Anyone can write a horoscope, just recycle old horoscopes from earlier years. and an astologer caught doing that was sacked from a big UK Newspaper to the horror of the astrologer.
As the editor of a Newspaper told his daily horoscope writer "As you will not doubt have predicted I am terminating your employment"
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Re: astrology

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:17 pm

Sculptor

Aries? Capricorn? :evilfun:
BE MELTING SNOW. WASH YOURSELF OF YOURSELF.

YOU WANDER FROM ROOM TO ROOM
HUNTING FOR THE DIAMOND NECKLACE
THAT IS ALREADY AROUND YOUR NECK!

DANCE UNTIL YOU SHATTER YOURSELF!

THERE IS A VOICE THAT DOESN'T USE WORDS. LISTEN!

LIFE IS A BALANCE BETWEEN HOLDING ON AND LETTING GO!

LET SILENCE TAKE YOU TO THE CORE OF LIFE!
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Re: astrology

Postby Flannel Jesus » Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:24 pm

@Sculptor, some astrologists want to call what they do a "science", but I think it's painfully clear that the astrological community as a whole is allergic to the idea that it is one.
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Re: astrology

Postby iambiguous » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:42 pm

Yo, Fixed!

You're up!!
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: astrology

Postby iambiguous » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:45 pm

One person's defense of astrology
Faye Blake-Cossar
Defending astrolgy: time for a new approach

The planet Uranus entered Aries the day the nuclear problems, caused by an earthquake and the following tsunami, began in Japan. A fitting metaphor for a negative expression of his theme. Time for the world to take note of what Uranian power can do – it is not something we can control, although I fear that the world will try at least until 2015. However we can work with Uranus to create innovation, which will eventually be the likely result of the nuclear problems in Japan. A pity that no-one applied the warning, that was there in the sky, to Japan’s nuclear industry. Maybe more could have been done to assist or even avert this extra problem which came just after the shocking earthquake disaster. It is a shame that most companies don’t use astrology, because it could have been useful here.


So, if this is the new approach, what exactly is the old one?

Here is someone who actually believes that the catastophic earthquake/tsunami that devasted Japan back then was as a result of the planet Uranus entering Aries. Or is she saying something different?

Old, new or some still to be described account of astrology...how on earth can people actually bring themselves to believe things like this.

Then the the part I usually reserve for those who believe in God: theodicy.

Now, like God, do the celestial bodies actually bring about natural disasters like this? And, if so, can it be claimed that they are then morally responsible for the terrible devastation that destroys hundreds of thousands of lives...that kills thousand more?

How exactly do the astrologers make sense of this relationship between celestial bodies, natural disasters and human tragedies?

Does Uranous -- 1.8155 billion miles from us -- actually possess the power to bring about earthquakes and tsunamis on Earth? How exactly? And how does Uranus coordinate these things with Saturn and Jupiter and Neptune and all the other celestial bodies in the solar system?

Seriously, how is this understood by astrologers?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: astrology

Postby Flannel Jesus » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:53 pm

A prediction made after the fact is no prediction at all.

Edit: what I mean to say is, of course "predicting" a disaster after it happened and saying "astrology could have predicted that" is absolute baloney. If astrology could have predicted it, why didn't Astrology predict it? Was there an astrologer out there that knew the disaster was going to happen, and chose to withhold that information? That doesn't sound very ethical.
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Re: astrology

Postby MagsJ » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:13 am

_
I Guinea pig, am going to physically-correlate the two concepts below, and verify if the resultant state from the process really does energise, for the following day.

____
What is the purpose of Moon Salutations?

Moon Salutations are considered cooling and soothing for the body, as opposed to the heating, invigorating nature of the Sun Salutations. They are considered particularly useful for practicing during the full moon, new moon or waning moon, as these are times when the body's energy is naturally thought to be lower.

66C7196A-983A-4367-9534-F6BF4175C1B1.jpeg
66C7196A-983A-4367-9534-F6BF4175C1B1.jpeg (26.78 KiB) Viewed 213 times
__
To correlate with the above..

Current Time: 26 Apr 2022, 07:32:10
Moon Phase Tonight: Waning Crescent
New Moon: 30 Apr 2022, 21:28 (Next Phase)
Third Quarter: 23 Apr 2022, 12:56 (Previous Phase)



____
Next up to do, after that ^^^

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0ACB944A-83D6-4929-981A-120932A9AEE5.jpeg (25.32 KiB) Viewed 213 times
Last edited by MagsJ on Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: astrology

Postby MagsJ » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:24 am

_
So what was it, that made me think of doing that.. well: a few days ago, my cat was bombing-it around the house, and a few days later I remembered that it had been a full moon a few days before.. so was probably why.

And now he’s lounging around all calm-as, like nothing happened, and he didn’t lose his sh*t. :lol:

In any case.. will the yoga practice work, in what it claims to do, in cooling and soothing the physical. I could do with that.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: astrology

Postby Sculptor » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:36 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:Sculptor

Aries? Capricorn? :evilfun:


No NO
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Re: astrology

Postby Sculptor » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:41 am

Flannel Jesus wrote:@Sculptor, some astrologists want to call what they do a "science", but I think it's painfully clear that the astrological community as a whole is allergic to the idea that it is one.


It always pretended t be a science, but found that it was unsustainable with the advent of the serious science of astronomy.
Even Newton followed astrology as it was part of the common endemic assumptions of his world.
Somewhat inexcusable given the dates of Francis Bacon. But progress can take time.

I do not think it is so much that the astrological community is allergic to the idea that it is one, more that that are allergic to any thing about it, having no idea what science is.
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Re: astrology

Postby MagsJ » Sun May 15, 2022 10:22 pm

_
Mine is spot on.. so does that make me a vampire.. :lol:

B848FDC3-942B-421E-8B68-5D56264A6CD5.jpeg
B848FDC3-942B-421E-8B68-5D56264A6CD5.jpeg (52.84 KiB) Viewed 157 times
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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