Concepts of intuition (Kant)

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue May 17, 2022 3:27 am

Also. In talking about mind and body and external world, people ask how the external world gets into the mind (not just the brain, which is also external), but nobody asks how the mind (not the brain) gets out into the external world. The external world gets into the mind through the body/brain (not literally, but as information). The mind gets out through (speech) behavior (signaling) using body/brain language.

Our body/brains are receivers that can also transmit signals. Before we did one, we were equipped to do both - it’s built in.

It’s even built in that we have the ability to tinker with the programming.

Best we can do is reverse engineer, and deny the existence of an original Engineer? Bunch o weirdos.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6091
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Meno_ » Tue May 17, 2022 4:00 am

Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Meno_ » Tue May 17, 2022 3:18 pm

Meno_ wrote:









Ok




Next morning. In fact it was excellent , in case there may be a feeling that it's underrated. To me, a slow lerner.Lerner., everything between a C and an A+ is OK.


Just a needed correction
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue May 17, 2022 3:41 pm

I saw it before it said Ok.

Still didn’t understand.

My grandpa fried up a mean catfish. Incidentally.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6091
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Meno_ » Tue May 17, 2022 4:47 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:I saw it before it said Ok.

Still didn’t understand.

My grandpa fried up a mean catfish. Incidentally.
seeing can be deceptive especially when nihilized by deletion. The very complex motivation of Bentano gave a hint.

Try filet of sole , if tired of catfish.


Nine lives tuna in case the others are missing. At least used to be.
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue May 17, 2022 7:48 pm

“I think, therefore I subsist” - Brentano, and the philosophy major who flips your burgers ;)

A stitch in time saves 9. Or something. You got to pick up every stitch.

Ohhhh noooooo…

There is a season.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6091
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Meno_ » Wed May 18, 2022 8:13 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:“I think, therefore I subsist” - Brentano, and the philosophy major who flips your burgers ;)

A stitch in time saves 9. Or something. You got to pick up every stitch.

Ohhhh noooooo…

There is a season.



There is a whoopee lot more to this than meets the eye.....

A real intuitive mind would not need to spell it out.


And don't let me put it on You ( the spell)

It is above and beyond sources and resorceries.


Way way above certainty even,


Into stratospheric heights...
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed May 18, 2022 8:39 pm

If you were near-hearinged, I’d spell hello & nod my head furiously with a “yeah right” smirk. If you were far-hearinged, I’d wave hello & nod my head furiously with a “yeah right” smirk. If you were blind, I’d flip you off until you made sense.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6091
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Meno_ » Wed May 18, 2022 9:55 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:If you were near-hearinged, I’d spell hello & nod my head furiously with a “yeah right” smirk. If you were far-hearinged, I’d wave hello & nod my head furiously with a “yeah right” smirk. If you were blind, I’d flip you off until you made sense.




Ok, most of them are very general musings until 0
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed May 18, 2022 11:39 pm

Why, yes, I do love skinless smashed po-tay-toes.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6091
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby felix dakat » Thu May 19, 2022 5:37 pm

We must therefore analyze experience in general in order to see what is contained in this product of the senses and of the understanding and how the judgment of experience itself is possible. The foundation is the intuition of which I become conscious that is perception which pertains merely to the senses. But in the next place there is judging which belongs only to the understanding. Kant, Prolegomena, page 43, Hackett, 1977
User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 10953
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: USA

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu May 19, 2022 6:49 pm

He flip flops on what judgment/understanding means. But thanks on intuition/imagination--yes--it may be foundational to all three.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6091
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Meno_ » Thu May 19, 2022 11:59 pm

Except in verifiable 'unique' cases , where that argument reaches a limit that necessitates the anomalies' representional judgement.
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri May 20, 2022 12:25 am

Are we talking about out of body or near death experiences? I would love love love to study all that in combination with cognitive science and philosophy of mind. Alas I cannot in good conscience continue acquiring student debt after this year.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6091
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Meno_ » Fri May 20, 2022 12:27 am

Ichthus77 wrote:Are we talking about out of body or near death experiences? I would love love love to study all that in combination with cognitive science and philosophy of mind. Alas I cannot in good conscience continue acquiring student debt after this year.



No nothing like that, rather a psychology deontologically reduced to infinitesimal limits of understanding, however NDE could concur.
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri May 20, 2022 12:40 am

sounds nonreductive if it’s legit
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6091
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Meno_ » Fri May 20, 2022 2:04 am

You may or may not be right about me , not being reducable, but as far as legitimacy is noncerned, ...no.

The intuitive aspect so strongly brought out by the lack of certainty( of legitimacy among other things) has to transcend the limits of reason to create a true judgememt.
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri May 20, 2022 2:56 am

we have ourselves a Mexican standoff
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6091
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby felix dakat » Fri May 20, 2022 12:55 pm

...this judging may be twofold—first, I may merely compare perceptions and connect them in a particular state of my consciousness;
or, secondly, I may connect them in consciousness generally.
The former judgment is merely a judgment of perception, and of subjective validity only: it is merely a connexion of perceptions in my mental state, without reference to the object.
Hence it is not, as is commonly imagined, enough for experience to compare perceptions and to connect them in consciousness through judgment;
there arises no universality and necessity, for which alone judgments can become objectively valid and be called experience.
Quite another judgment therefore is required before perception can become experience. The given intuition must be subsumed under a concept, which determines the form of judging in general relatively to the intuition, connects its empirical consciousness in consciousness generally, and thereby procures universal validity for empirical judgments.
A concept of this nature is a pure a priori concept of the Understanding, which does nothing but determine for an intuition the general way in which it can be used for judgments.
Let the concept be that of cause, then it determines the intuition which is subsumed under it, e.g., that of air, relative to judgments in general, viz., the concept of air serves with regard to its expansion in the relation of antecedent to consequent in a hypothetical hypothetical judgment. The concept of cause accordingly is a pure concept of the understanding, which is totally disparate from all possible perception, and only serves to determine the representation subsumed under it, relatively to judgments in general, and so to make a universally valid judgment possible. Before, therefore, a judgment of perception can become a judgment of experience, it is requisite that the perception should be subsumed under some such a concept of the understanding; for instance, air ranks under the concept of causes, which determines our judgment about it in regard to its expansion as hypothetical.
Thereby the expansion of the air is represented not as merely belonging to the perception of the air in my present state or in several states of mine, or in the state of perception of others, but as belonging to it necessarily.
The judgment, "the air is elastic," becomes universally valid, and a judgment of experience, only by certain judgments preceding it, which subsume the intuition of air under the concept of cause and effect: and they thereby determine the perceptions not merely as regards one another in me, but relatively to the form of judging in general, which is here hypothetical, and in this way they render the empirical judgment universally valid.

Kant, Immanuel. Kant's Prolegomena: To Any Future Metaphysics (p. 56). anboco. Kindle Edition.


Kant's talking about intelligibility according to the principle of sufficient reason.We can't think rationally outside of the structures of intelligibility that are given a priori. Being itself is unknowable via these parameters. We can know it only intuitively in a different sense.  This sense Schopenhauer explicates in his metaphysics of the WORLD AS WILL. For Kant it is the unknowable THING IN ITSELF.
The thing about the thing is that number does not even apply to it. You can't say that there are a number of things in themselves because the thing is not a thing that can be known.  Mathematics is a product of the faculty of intelligibility.
So this inner intuition of Schopenhauer is different from the intuition as defined by Kant. For Kant and the subsequent phenomenologists like Husserl, intuition is the intelligibility of perception. This may be where you're getting confused. Kant is not referring to intuition in the contemporary colloquial sense.
Schopenhauer's sense of the word is closer to the way the word is usually thought of today.
The way we use the word may have evolved after Kant as a result of the Romantic movement. Wordsworth, Coleridge, Byron, Shelley - those guys and many others of the Romantic period with their sense of the sublime and the divine in nature. They may have transformed the meaning of the word etymologically. In any case that's how the word is usually thought of today, not the way the phenomenologist use it influenced as they were by Kant.
User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 10953
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: USA

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Meno_ » Fri May 20, 2022 2:14 pm

Yea, the re-iteration of the general framework of the moral fallacy; between what is, or/and what should be. The point that the fallacy contains the dialectical argument of appearances between Kant and Shopenhauer appears to have no content as far as substantive support to the Romantics' claim, therefore the all encompassing morally judgmental fissure remains unsupported.

Aesthetic primacy does hold a huge leverage as being supra supportive within reasonable terms of that fallacy.
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri May 20, 2022 2:24 pm

Meno_ wrote:Yea, the re-iteration of the general framework of the moral fallacy; between what is, or/and what should be. The point that the fallacy contains the dialectical argument of appearances between Kant and Shopenhauer appears to have no content as far as substantive support to the Romantics' claim, therefore the all encompassing morally judgmental fissure remains unsupported.

Aesthetic primacy does hold a huge leverage as being supra supportive within reasonable terms of that fallacy.


Love is something you shout from the rooftops in whatever medium you can because It’s Alive! It’s Aliiiive.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6091
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri May 20, 2022 2:25 pm

felix dakat read ya layta i’m playing super nintendo sim city in the calm before the storm
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6091
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Meno_ » Fri May 20, 2022 6:42 pm

The great early soap, ' The Secret Storm' a soon followup to the much less ironic/ iconic major motion picture- 'Gone with the Wind'

Cut/cute
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby felix dakat » Mon May 23, 2022 3:04 pm

Meno_ wrote:Yea, the re-iteration of the general framework of the moral fallacy; between what is, or/and what should be. The point that the fallacy contains the dialectical argument of appearances between Kant and Shopenhauer appears to have no content as far as substantive support to the Romantics' claim, therefore the all encompassing morally judgmental fissure remains unsupported.

Aesthetic primacy does hold a huge leverage as being supra supportive within reasonable terms of that fallacy.


For Kant epistemology precedes ethics. And one can, as Schopenhauer did, accept his epistemology without accepting his ethics.
User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 10953
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: USA

Re: Concepts of intuition (Kant)

Postby Meno_ » Tue May 24, 2022 3:33 am

felix dakat wrote:
Meno_ wrote:Yea, the re-iteration of the general framework of the moral fallacy; between what is, or/and what should be. The point that the fallacy contains the dialectical argument of appearances between Kant and Shopenhauer appears to have no content as far as substantive support to the Romantics' claim, therefore the all encompassing morally judgmental fissure remains unsupported.

Aesthetic primacy does hold a huge leverage as being supra supportive within reasonable terms of that fallacy.


For Kant epistemology precedes ethics. And one can, as Schopenhauer did, accept his epistemology without accepting his ethics.



Yes , but should they is not generally a question the can verbatim answer, at least it seems to me
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

PreviousNext

Return to Psychology and Mind



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users