Movies you wish you had directed

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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby promethean75 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:48 pm

"It wasn't possession that drove him. He didn't want to possess these women. That is a whole different activity. He wanted to drain out his powerlessness."

Originally it wasn't. That aspect is one of those weird things that the serial killer gets thrown into and never sees coming. The possession aspect of the rape stage is only a control mechanism. He's not doing it to possess, but to control so he can rape. Possession is incidental here. It's the creepy possession stage of the necrophilia and dismemberment that's fascinating. Some kind of soft delirium we can't know because we've never done it.

Think about it dude. Something going on here on some deep level shit. How can a guy sit there next to you one moment and talk about Republican policy over a beer... and two hours later he's sitting against a tree talking to a girl's head in his lap as he brushes her hair.

What we absolutely have here is a possession fetish. He wants and needs to keep some of the bodies. It's the reason why that we can't understand. Either just to revisit for sex (to satiate himself and avoid having to make the effort to abduct another), or for some kind of ritual too bizarre for us to really get our minds around. Course we have a history of keeping trophies of our rivals after we kill them, but this is a much different context. This is part of that incomprehensible fantasy state Ted was in... had to be in... to literally do all this creepy shit with the women. Religious even in it's intensity, or of a temporary delusional state induced by some kind of personality split. Remember this guy was just talking to you about labor unions over a beer not three hours ago.

Here's the basic outline of Ted's stage development.

First there's the peeping and masturbation. This goes on for years. Ted's only encounter with anything sexual was through pornographic media. His moms never talked about sex to him and he had no girlfriends in his early teens. The alienation combined with the constant exposure to the medium of sex and violence, the inability to express sexual desires in a healthy way with a girlfriend, and the fact that this material is all he had to masturbate too (we jacked off to Playboy, dude. That's nuthin), conditioned him to have very perverse desires that eventually became overwhelming.

Next stage. He's gonna do it, but he doesn't know how exactly. It's all on the fly. In fact, he's not really sure what he's looking for. He just knows he's gonna assault her enough to gain control and rape her. No mystical possession stuff yet.

Caveat; I'm assuming that Sparks wasn't his first in all this. If Sparks was his first, I'd have to revise this. In Sparks case, Ted was extremely angry and her killing was in response to Brooks breaking up with him. The typical universalization of the symbol of the woman as the betrayer, ergo, all women are like Steph and fuck Steph.

If Ted started in his early teens, as some theory believes, then all the stage developments of the possession aspect were as described. Very bizarre stuff we can't know or experience. How an otherwise normal looking and sounding dude could do some outrageous shit like that.

Final stage is the refinement of the MO and a clear understanding of what he needs to get off. The experiments are long over by now and the dude ended up discovering that the necrophilia was somehow exhilarating during the while. It was also something that wasn't always exclusive to his activity. It characterized the end of the Washington stage and the beginning of the Utah stage. By the time of Utah, Ted had a newly found confidence and a feeling of freedom that empowered him out of the prior depression he experienced before the Liz phase. Steph and the universal evil woman was no more. Now the girls were just toys and he's no longer angry at em. He's matured now and it's no longer about revenge, see. As I said, the mysogynist stage was brief with Ted because he did quite well with the ladies. But he felt that these relationships were somewhat superficial because he believed he was financially inadequate as a boyfriend or for a surrogate family. In reality, Liz, Carole and even Steph (on the rebound) actually adored Ted. He was just a neurotic guy with deep seated feelings of failure and inadequacy from all the way back that got in the way of him allowing himself to be loved with a clean conscience. The pressures of bourgeois society and upperclass Republican parties. Ted was turned into and expected to be an impulsive overachiever who was destined for fame. They fuckin turned him into a nervous wreck dude.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:53 pm

I don't think you understand what possession is. Or what rape is, tbh. When you say that they control in order to be able to rape, actually it's the opposite. They rape in order to control. From the get go. And it is possible that that instinct to control gets more sophisticated and subtle with the years, but it is still what it is. That puts it in stark contrast with possession.

Rape is important to them because it insta drains the feeling of powerlesness. You are trying to make it too complicated, rather than me simplistic. Powerlesness, a failure inside. It's not about revenge, never about revenge. Maybe revenge fantasies can be used, but the motive is never revenge. It's more basic than that. He is powerless, controls nothing in his life, and so imposes the most radical form of control on another human being possible. He cannot even dream of wanting to possess, he does not understand the thing that is there. He doesn't really care to understand. He becomes charming and gets the hoes out of studied and worked craft. He does it to prove to himself, to chase away the feeling of powerlessness, that he is a freak. How can he be a freak if he gets this primo ass? But it doesn't work.

It doesn't work because he is chasing the image of a man in control, a man with power. He is acting a play. He is not interested in the actual things that bring power, cannot be. First, the feeling of powerlessness is too urgent. Nothing can be thought through until that is dealt with, and it cannot be dealt with. Second, he truly feels in his core that he has no power, not even the power that is potential to acquire power. So he cannot, under any circumstance, actually ask himself the question or pose himself the challenge. He wants to bullshit his way into it.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:05 pm

What hurts him most is his image of himself as a powerless freak and failure. So what he attacks is the image, of himself. That is what he works on and dedicates his life to. Because it doesn't work, he still needs the occasional powerlessness drain.

Obviously after not too long, specially an intelligent person, he understands that it's pathological and is getting nowhere. But that is why it is pathological. The feelings that drive it are more basic, more powerful, more constitutive, than any intellectualizing.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:08 pm

He doesn't do the evangelist porn out of some mission to save other freaks.

He does it as part of his life mission, to eradicate his image of himself as a powerless freak that kills and rapes girls to chase away that feeling at any cost. It is the powerlessness he can never admit, because it is what his life itself is about avoiding.

So, it's not that. It's the porn, like the pastor says. It doesn't matter if he knows and you know and he knows you know he knows we know. What matters is the image.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby promethean75 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:23 pm

The analysis of the powerlessness was good but too cliche and linear for Ted, I'm telling you. We'll never resolve this because in order to do so, we need to know if Ted commited his first murder in his early teens, or if Sparks was the first. If the former, then his compulsion to rape and kill cannot have evolved out of some complex feelings of powerlessness. Ted didn't yet feel powerless, see. All that shit comes into play after profound failures during relatively mature stages of life... like getting dumped by Brooks because 'he had no ambition and didn't stand up for himself'- Brooks.

See what I'm saying? All this rests on when he commited his first. The general structure of the fantasy takes shape and is maintained throughout the entire period of the serial killing. Various transformations of motives and newly discovered pleasures happen along the way, but the seed was not planted because of powerlessness. It was a purely visceral product of operant conditioning and reward. Images of naked girls being held at knife point every night, bro. That was your sex life in your tidy little leave it to beaver room in that cute little house with your fake ass family where y'ont even know of your sister is really your moms or not.

You gotta read the transcripts of the tapes man (michaud and aynesworth), as well as the keppel interviews.

Guy ain't a textbook case, I'm tryna tell u.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:27 pm

You know that is bullshit. He felt powerless, was a freak, since he was a child.

'he had no ambition and didn't stand up for himself'- Brooks.


This was already a thing that was there since long before, obviously. This girl only confirmed it for him.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby promethean75 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:55 pm

You're not paying attention, Clarice. Our teddy cannot direct his violence toward women via some feeling of powerlessness toward/with women if he hasn't yet had any relationships with women. This is why our theory stands or falls on the first murder and/or assault. If our teddy's first murder was in fact Burr, this is all happening before he's experienced any female rejection on a significant enough scale.

Moreover, the 'inferiority complex' theory doesn't pan out when we look at his Washington state University period. At this time the only thing Ted didn't have was money and a nicer ride. Other than that, he was a star both in his school and in the Republican campaigns he participated in. During this period our teddy felt anything but 'inferior'.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:57 pm

If female rejection mattered, it would be revenge driven. And it's not.

He targets girls because they are weak, he knows he can impose his body on them. That is the only reason. They are vehicles for control. When the moment of rejection comes, it is only an echo of something he already feels, he doesn't even resent them. He agrees with them.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:59 pm

promethean75 wrote:Moreover, the 'inferiority complex' theory doesn't pan out when we look at his Washington state University period. At this time the only thing Ted didn't have was money and a nicer ride. Other than that, he was a star both in his school and in the Republican campaigns he participated in. During this period our teddy felt anything but 'inferior'.


Again, this is all stuff he learned after. He learned it, mind you, it didn't come naturally to him like most people. That is why he was more successful at it than most: he made a craft of it.

He did feel inferior. He hoped this image he projected, this success, would erase that. But it didn't. Probably, he simply felt that he was able to steer his life in a different direction, one of success, but in which he still had no control, in which life still decided for him.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Chakra Superstar » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:15 am

I don't have a problem with sexual fiends, gays or trannies but I wouldn't be caught dead with a necrophiliac.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:27 am

I knew a necrophiliac. One of the coolest guys I ever knew.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:31 am

I just got the joke.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby promethean75 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:34 am

"if female rejection mattered, it would be revenge driven. And it's not."

It actually was a component that served to facilitate the universalization of resentment for all women at one brief point directly following the break up with Brooks. But as I said he 'grew out of that' as he proved to himself how valuable he could be to a girlfriend. In fact... and this sends the point home... he would become bored with normal sex with Liz and want to mess around and tie her up.

You see here how deeply entrenched the sadism is. Ted is far beyond reacting violently to repressed feelings of powerlessness at this point. He literally has it all. Earns public notoriety after saving a drowning boy. Keeps a decent job as a counselor at a call-in rape/suicide hotline (here's one of those ironies about Ted). Olympic level skier who's intellect alone can get any girl, not to mention how handsome he was in a Kenny loggins kinda way. Living with Liz and Molly and everything's swell with the picnics and hiking trips and all that shit. Even got Molly off her training wheels.

No man. This formula won't work with Ted, and we aren't comfortable with the fact that we can't use it to explain him away. After the mid-twenties, Ted had become a twisted, superhuman perv-machine who's last worry was whether or not anybody likes him. We waaaaay past that, homes. This guy is consumed at this point only by a hyper-erotic carnal love of the hunt. He's literally falling behind in his studies because of this fucking urge that won't leave him alone. After a few Mickey's and the sun goes down... it's over for ya sweetheart. Our teddy is no longer functioning on such tediums as rejection and the feeling of powerlessness in petty human affairs. He is at this point a raving James Brownian sex machine on autopilot, and that is all.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:39 am

You are just uncomfortable at imagining just how deep a role can go.

If it was really about the erotic story, he would get the girls to drive him to the spot, and tie themselves to the tree.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:41 am

Even the revenge fantasies where a cover, a role, something to cover up the unacceptable real reason he did it.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:49 am

It's not about the sex. It's about the coercion. Control. The amount of control he exercised over these bodies would have to be inversely proportional to how little he felt over his own.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby promethean75 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:42 am

You're being careless again, Clarice. Remember the three types of control, the purpose they serve, and at what point they emerge in the development of the killer. There is no single, salient feature of control throughout this process other than the objective, physical control that must be taken of the victim in order to sexual assault them.

Possessive control of the victim under the other terms depends on contingencies and circumstances unique to brief periods... while the only form that prevails throughout the entire period is that physical control to simply detain the victim.

During the 'im angry at my ex' stage, Ted's expression of control will involve that sadistic feature you speak of that redeems Ted of his feelings of inadequacy. Oh yeah, bitch? You're gonna dump me? Aight we can play dat.

So u r right.

But only for a moment. You cannot explain his entire metamorphosis on such a basis. He was not an Ed Kemper with the ladies, dude. The resentment stage and the forms of control that manifested from that and are incorporated into the fantasy, characterize only the early middle period.

Look at all the groupies in the courtroom during the chi omega trial with their hair parted down the middle. Seriously?

Real shit man. Look at everything from the villain's perspective. Look at what a circus this society is that persecutes you.

That footage when the indictment was read to Bundy as he steps out the elevator. That was an underhanded publicity stunt pulled by a sheriff who was up for reelection. Totally uncalled for and not at all by the book.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:49 am

promethean75 wrote:There is no single, salient feature of control throughout this process other than the objective, physical control that must be taken of the victim in order to sexual assault them.


Correct. And kill them. That is the only one that exists. All others are covers, because the actual reason this is done is the very thing the ultimate price is paid to avoid.

It is important that it is done against their will. That is the only detail that matters. The rape is because that is the most personal possible sphere to exercise control in. The person has 0 control over their body, you have 100. The killing is because it is the ultimate claim of power over that body. After your acts of coercion, nothing else ever happens.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:50 am

It goes without saying that if you have to coerce a body, you do not possess it. Under any circumstance.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:52 am

A powerless man cannot possess.

It's not about the girls. It's about him.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:59 am

If a powerful man wanted to coerce, he would find a powerful body to coerce. That is the only thing that would satisfy his appetite. And that is a very old and well known instinct, the instinct for battle and war, to impose yourself on a powerful enemy.

If you do it on a girl, rape and kill, it is because you do not feel powerful.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:06 am

You see it in dogs. Beta and Omega males are always humping everything, other dogs, bitches, objects, people, always against their will. Alpha dogs just sit there, and bitches come to them, asking for the dick.

The only thing that gets an Alpha dog active, up and willing to hump against another's will, is when another potential Alpha shows up.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby promethean75 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:15 am

One of em - can't remember his name now - once said that he set out only to rape originally, but in being unable to let the girl go for obvious reasons, he had to kill her. He then noticed how much the killing act turned him on... and presto. But he didn't set out with that intent. It developed along the way.

Keep in mind also that our Teddy wasn't excessively violent. I mean as far as these guys go. In fact he was one of the quicker, cleaner murderers of the trade. Signature move; blow to the head. Very little blood and no prolonged struggle with the girl that might lead him to doing so weird torturer shit. He would knock them out, engage in intercourse with them (either unconscious or conscious), and often strangle them during or after climax. That was about it. Ted was a conservative before all else, remember, and he kept it traditional and simple. No cigarette burning or stabbing the hoe thirty times like some nuttjob. Ted wanted only to hit it and quit it as easily as possible and he became a fucking scientist at doing so.

Also note: the only two instances of exceptionally vicious attacks were with Sparks and that one chick at chi omega. That's the first (when he's dumped) and second to last (when he's going full retard in Florida). Everybody else was done quickly with no freaky shit going on. He's one of the least grotesque serial killers, bro. That's what makes him so sexy. I'd so let him rape me if i wuz a hoe. Like I'd offer myself up to this guy. He's like a vampire or something. So hot.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:18 am

Yeah, because it wasn't about the violence, the sexual act, some erotic sadism. It was about coercion.

The reason that guy discovered that about killing is that he realized that after he had imposed himself, that was the last thing that person ever experienced, draining even further his feeling of powerlessness, which he experienced as sexual arousal.
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Re: Movies you wish you had directed

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:20 am

These are all weak men.
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