The Deep State

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The Deep State

Postby Gloominary » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:03 pm

Is there a deep state, and if so, what are its politics?
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Re: The Deep State

Postby iambiguous » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:16 pm

You all know mine: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... s#p2187045

And you all know that in regard to things like this -- moral and political value judgments -- my argument revolves as much around how we come to embrace one frame of mind rather than another given the arguments I make in my signature threads. Which revolve around three main components: dasein, conflicting goods, political economy.

So, sure, if anyone is willing to go there, let's do it.

You know, given particular contexts.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: The Deep State

Postby encode_decode » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:25 pm

It is possible that there is a deep state but how it works and whether it exists is what most people who are curious wonder. Curious people don't wonder about the politics until they start believing that there is a deep state.

So how does it work? It is possible that this is all imagined but still exists. What I mean is that the deep state is not even conscious of its own existence, it just is. That forces are able to exert their influence on the government and at times still be at odds with each other - kinda like factions within the deep state. I believe that if there is a deep state that it does not even care about politics - it is just a self-serving interest that manipulates the powers that be.

I find it difficult to explain but sometimes we perceive things that are there, and they are...but...some of these things are not organized groups that are out to get us.

There seem to be a few theories about the deep state and I think that the conspiracy theory itself has been around for a long time but just with a different name in the decades and centuries past.

Yeah, this sort of thing is nothing new.
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I only meant that the cat knows - or discovers - that we can toss it out a window at any time = "authority". Dogs accept that notion more quickly - not as willing to test it. O:) - obsrvr524
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:06 pm

Thats like asking if there is gravity.

Deep state simply means influential nonelected officials which number in the hundreds of thousands. E.g. people who have held jobs in the Pentagon for six decades, who know infinitely more about all kinds of operations than any elected official could possibly come to learn.

Such people naturally have the sense of being the real government, knowing far more than any president, especially about methods.
All large empires have such a layer to them. In Rome it was tied to the priests of Saturn, who controlled the treasury. Like our own deep state, it remained shrouded in silence.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby encode_decode » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:11 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Thats like asking if there is gravity.

Deep state simply means influential nonelected officials which number in the hundreds of thousands. E.g. people who have held jobs in the Pentagon for six decades, who know infinitely more about all kinds of operations than any elected official could possibly come to learn.

Such people naturally have the sense of being the real government, knowing far more than any president, especially about methods.
All large empires have such a layer to them. In Rome it was tied to the priests of Saturn, who controlled the treasury. Like our own deep state, it remained shrouded in silence.

Oh yes, then there is this, the more obvious answer and one that I would be more inclined to believe despite what I have already said.

Everyone is trying to exert some influence anyway.
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I only meant that the cat knows - or discovers - that we can toss it out a window at any time = "authority". Dogs accept that notion more quickly - not as willing to test it. O:) - obsrvr524
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:24 pm

I think what you designate as the deep state is what I would simply designate as bored rich people. Who get in "cahoots" with parts of deep state simply because that is very interesting.

There's long records of British nobles simply screwing around with the citizenry, causing wars and food scarcity and doing all kinds of intense stuff just because they can. Because they're just extremely bored, because thats what happens if you're born into a life of absolute wealth, meaning wealth you can literally not possibly exhaust.

I see such things as a psychological phenomenon. Just imagine you have sixty trillion dollars at your disposal, and you are bored. Contemplating that situation actually explained a lot to me.

The official definition of deep state is the one I gave, unelected officials with far more experience and knowledge than elected officials. People who invariably shun the limelight, because for them the opposite is the case as what I the case with those standing for election - the less is known about their existence the better it is for their employment prospects.

It is all excruciatingly pragmatic and franky banal. There is nothing truly intellectually "deep" or mysterious about any of it, at least not in the absence of illusions.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Mr Reasonable » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:04 pm

if you mean is it the case that the people who have the most money have the most control over the shape of society then i think that's true but its also not anything new
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:08 pm

Mr Reasonable wrote:if you mean is it the case that the people who have the most money have the most control over the shape of society then i think that's true but its also not anything new

Who said that?

Did you read what I said about the deep state?
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Mr Reasonable » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:39 pm

i dont know.

no.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:00 am

Okay then

:-?
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:34 am

Any agenda a rich person may have must be in terms of the logistic capacities of the state. The deep state is the deep end of logistics. That's a kind of 'abyss', inside of which preemptive protocols are always being developed. This is a Prussian invention according to war historians, 'proactive pre-emptive diplomacy', an intricate chain of military and diplomatic movements to form a concerted pressure 'on the ground and in the head' - no one I know knows what precisely the protocols were then, or no one has published it online or any references to it - what is known is that it forced other nations to try to understand what was happening and adapt to the new rules, which were coming into being as rapidly as the technological advances that were happening at the time. You need to see deep state as a scientific layer to politics, and understand how weird scientists are - how separated they often are from what most people call human sentiments about the world. If you dont know any nerds you can probably not relate too well to the nature of the deep state. I think it may actually be a neanderthal quality. Just a different type of brain structure, more aimed at long term thinking, complete thought-processes - which is what lost out to the more fragmentary way of reasoning that characterizes the hominid that came to dominate. So - any agenda a rich person may have, it must be filtered through the nerdlike structure of the mechanism of superpower. You need either nerds or actual Germans.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby encode_decode » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:40 am

Fixed Cross wrote:I think it may actually be a neanderthal quality.

Fitting, but jesus, I nearly spat my coffee out. Pretty much the last thing I was expecting to read.

:lol:

It was kind of like a jack in the box.

Fixed Cross wrote:So - any agenda a rich person may have, it must be filtered through the nerdlike structure of the mechanism of superpower. You need either nerds or actual Germans.

Dude, sometimes I wonder whether you write like this to see if anyone is paying attention.

What I want to know is how I go about building nerdlike structures.

Thanks for the awesome read though FC - very enjoyable and insightful.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:53 pm

In a way yes. I appreciate the eye.

To add a simple overarching portrait of the situation: the deep state as I described it is the engine that performs all the nitty gritty technical labor that capacitates a modern power. Whatever 'driver' is 'behind the wheel' of a state, be it a financial oligarchy or a legitimate polity or a combination, is entirely dependent on what the engine is able to perform. The pride of the deep state is thus deep - it relishes not to be fucked with. It likes revenge, it likes to demonstrate its capacity, to put people in their place. Generally Id say it does so with extreme restraint, as the worst fear of any engine is to be overextended. Once wheels grind out of place, there is not really a way of coming back into form. So this is the hard core of the deep state, a power-lusty but not extravagant body of technocratic capacity. It likes to anticipate rather than to initiate. It initiates by the principle of 'if the way is clear we go forward' - a method also taught to IDF soldiers for hand to hand combat by my own sifu, incidentally. It means defense is always up, and it is a springbock defense system; a lever that is pressed by being attacked, something that will veer back forward once pressure relents or loses precision.

This is what the financial powermongers have to contend with; they live in a kind of opposite universe - money is used to spending itself freely and to expect ever greater returns, the sort of risk management that the deep state requires and relishes would be pathetically inappropriate in the financial arena, where risks are the stuff of life and movements are much too fast to be anticipated like the evolution of technology and its implementation can be anticipated. There is of course a kind of deep state to modern finance given its technocratic backbone, but this is a very small and extremely specialized 'community', comparatively, even though it wields massive resources (fiberoptics across the ocean floor, quantum computing efforts, satellite chains,) - and due to the explosively short term logics of finance this deep-finance has no power to do anything but serve its larger community. It is not actually like the deep state, though its workforce shares important qualities with it and probably taps from the same pools.

To relate this grit of technocracy to the desires of financial elites, we have intermediary agencies in place, including much of the known clandestine services - these agencies tend to form a kind of diplomatic 'veil' between the entrenched deep state and the financial elites - and in general, elected political leaders and representatives are prepped for power by these relatively well known agencies. Strangely, one of the main functions of security services is the knowledge that exists of them in the public domain - they represent 'knowledge of the unknown' memetically hovering over the operational abyss, translating insanity into practicality.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Gloominary » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:25 pm

iambiguous wrote:You all know mine: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... s#p2187045

And you all know that in regard to things like this -- moral and political value judgments -- my argument revolves as much around how we come to embrace one frame of mind rather than another given the arguments I make in my signature threads. Which revolve around three main components: dasein, conflicting goods, political economy.

So, sure, if anyone is willing to go there, let's do it.

You know, given particular contexts.

Besides crony capitalism, do think the deep state exploits people in other ways?
Is there any way we can get our countries back?
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Gloominary » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:41 pm

encode_decode wrote:It is possible that there is a deep state but how it works and whether it exists is what most people who are curious wonder. Curious people don't wonder about the politics until they start believing that there is a deep state.

So how does it work? It is possible that this is all imagined but still exists. What I mean is that the deep state is not even conscious of its own existence, it just is. That forces are able to exert their influence on the government and at times still be at odds with each other - kinda like factions within the deep state. I believe that if there is a deep state that it does not even care about politics - it is just a self-serving interest that manipulates the powers that be.

I find it difficult to explain but sometimes we perceive things that are there, and they are...but...some of these things are not organized groups that are out to get us.

There seem to be a few theories about the deep state and I think that the conspiracy theory itself has been around for a long time but just with a different name in the decades and centuries past.

Yeah, this sort of thing is nothing new.

I think I understand what you're saying, that there is no monolithic deep state, but there are individuals and small groups of rich and powerful people who're sometimes able to manipulate government behind the scenes for power and profit.
Sometimes these individuals' and factions' interests converge, sometimes they conflict.
Interesting take, I think there's quite a bit of truth to it.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Gloominary » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:57 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Thats like asking if there is gravity.

Deep state simply means influential nonelected officials which number in the hundreds of thousands. E.g. people who have held jobs in the Pentagon for six decades, who know infinitely more about all kinds of operations than any elected official could possibly come to learn.

Such people naturally have the sense of being the real government, knowing far more than any president, especially about methods.
All large empires have such a layer to them. In Rome it was tied to the priests of Saturn, who controlled the treasury. Like our own deep state, it remained shrouded in silence.

So for you, it's more unelected veterans in government and the military than it is financial and political interests outside it.
To what degree do these veterans conspire together for power and profit against the welfare and/or wishes of the people, and in what ways?
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Re: The Deep State

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:21 pm

Gloominary wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Thats like asking if there is gravity.

Deep state simply means influential nonelected officials which number in the hundreds of thousands. E.g. people who have held jobs in the Pentagon for six decades, who know infinitely more about all kinds of operations than any elected official could possibly come to learn.

Such people naturally have the sense of being the real government, knowing far more than any president, especially about methods.
All large empires have such a layer to them. In Rome it was tied to the priests of Saturn, who controlled the treasury. Like our own deep state, it remained shrouded in silence.

So for you, it's more unelected veterans in government and the military than it is financial and political interests outside it.
To what degree do these veterans conspire together for power and profit against the welfare and/or wishes of the people, and in what ways?
I concur with Fixed. Only the totally subdued and deluded could believe there is no deep state in the US. What makes it an issue is that it is like an insecure subconscious of a government with a child-like will of its own independent of the elected officials and belligerent in its own wishes. It rules without morality, principles, or responsibility - totally self-absorbed (and many still argue that the subconscious mind doesn't exist either).

In the US getting a government position is a guaranteed job for life - so performance is of minimal concern - favoritism rules. I think that has been intentional because it grows the government exponentially through time - leading eventually to a communist state void of any actual democracy (despite rhetorical pretenses).

I imagine the deep state is no more or less controlled by government leaders than the conscious mind controls the subconscious mind. The Chinese are known for being particularly talented at manipulating a subconscious mind - a type of hypnosis - undetectable influence - "the invisible enemy".

The influence on the deep state is invisible to the deep state - always being controlled from outside influences (public and insider media) - not from the top and always believing that it has the real truth and better wisdom.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby encode_decode » Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:35 pm

Yeah, FC's explanation of this is logical

If we have no real proof of this all we can do otherwise is make a guess.

But again: this sort of thing is nothing new.

or as FC puts it:

Fixed Cross wrote:It is all excruciatingly pragmatic and franky banal. There is nothing truly intellectually "deep" or mysterious about any of it, at least not in the absence of illusions.
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Postby Fixed Cross » Sat May 01, 2021 12:23 am

I just wrote something vaguely sensible just now, but too long and frivolous. My lucid mood has left me!! Or the subject is sort of exhausted with observers remark about the subconscious and China. That's very good. Ill revisit later.
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Re: FC's somehow untitled response

Postby encode_decode » Sat May 01, 2021 8:37 am

Fixed Cross wrote:I just wrote something vaguely sensible just now, but too long and frivolous. My lucid mood has left me!! Or the subject is sort of exhausted with observers remark about the subconscious and China. That's very good. Ill revisit later.

It is not bad but it does not directly address the OP which is what I would suggest the entry point to the conversation in any thread would be. At least he agrees to the most logical answer in the thread. He deserves some credit for that.

:lol:

I am just going with the last presented theme outside this thread, which is we are not allowed to chill out anymore. Yep, apparently, we are allowed to be brain dead but we are not allowed to chill out - shit, this reminds me of real life. I wonder whether any of that is connected to the deep state, like what I mentioned about being at odds with each other. Of course, I am only messing around because to hell with the critics, I am keeping my sense of humor.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby encode_decode » Sat May 01, 2021 12:36 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:I think what you designate as the deep state is what I would simply designate as bored rich people. Who get in "cahoots" with parts of deep state simply because that is very interesting.

There's long records of British nobles simply screwing around with the citizenry, causing wars and food scarcity and doing all kinds of intense stuff just because they can. Because they're just extremely bored, because thats what happens if you're born into a life of absolute wealth, meaning wealth you can literally not possibly exhaust.

I see such things as a psychological phenomenon. Just imagine you have sixty trillion dollars at your disposal, and you are bored. Contemplating that situation actually explained a lot to me.

The official definition of deep state is the one I gave, unelected officials with far more experience and knowledge than elected officials. People who invariably shun the limelight, because for them the opposite is the case as what I the case with those standing for election - the less is known about their existence the better it is for their employment prospects.

It is all excruciatingly pragmatic and franky banal. There is nothing truly intellectually "deep" or mysterious about any of it, at least not in the absence of illusions.

I have been meaning to comment but your depth of writing is more than what I am used to on this forum for the most part. Sometimes this can prevent me from keeping up with everything when I already have active conversations on and off of the forum. Your assessment of what I wrote is highly accurate. It is hard to know how to answer the best sometimes when asked to answer a question. As I stated for Gloominary's benefit, everyone is trying to exert some influence anyway and as much as a lot of people don't see it or at least understand it, even the citizenry exerts it own influence. In my own assessment of society, I prefer to view it as somewhat an onion. Society has layers to it. People tend to get too focused on one layer and they can not see the dynamics of the full situation which means they are disabled from making connections.

Realistically it only takes a little imagination to see the full picture - one does not need some radical social group to indoctrinate them into their own way of thinking just because one does not understand that one was open to suggestion in the first place. So one can use their own faculties to help themself see the truth. In my presentation, I made use of this imaginary apparatus to present my point but at the same time, I did not bother with specifics as at that point there did not seem to be any reason to. I am preaching mental faculties here not for your benefit as it is quite obvious that you suffer this lack less than most if you catch my drift. Depth of thought as you are already aware requires more than reading, remembering, and regurgitating. When someone is able to use all of their faculties instead of relying on the three things mentioned in the last sentence then they are more equipped to build an accurate picture of the world. So yeah, imagination.

I guess some people wonder why no one respects what they say when there are only some that don't. Usually, the process of reading, remembering, and regurgitating is obvious to the more discerning observer and this in itself is kind of boring to the more sophisticated onlooker so people tend to stay within their onion layer because they have lost all hope of climbing out of the hole they are in. In essence, this type of dynamic blinds people to the point that some of them start to believe they are more discerning and "intelligent" than they are. I don't want to just pull people out of their hole, I would prefer to throw them a rope as others have done for me and let them climb out themselves. This is how I often approach the process of answering a question. Through these sorts of skills, it is not too difficult to see why I would agree to your answer following my own in response to the OP. Gloominary was able to receive a valuable answer from both of us and I encourage him to read the rest of your posts.

I want to finish with this: The mind adapts to the sense of what it uses: the process of processing information - flawed logics still work in general, since a number of related processes have already produced the most accurate and most useful judgments. This is an important idea as it is part of the representation of what it is to be human. We do learn to specialize with the help of solid logic but this is simply a process of discrimination as opposed to our most used process of generalization. Imagination is related to both generalization and discrimination. Imagination is like a bridge between the two - you may have both but without imagination, they are of only limited use.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat May 01, 2021 1:54 pm

Gloominary wrote: what are its politics?

Mindless Job Security.
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    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat May 01, 2021 11:45 pm

Encode - For lack of a better expression, it seems you're smelling blood, are on a trail - and in order to not block this scent of blood let me just 'ramble on' a bit rather than to frame the thing in transparent frameworks.

the question of the deep state to me reflects much of the question of power as that which challenges consciousness - power in a sense being the antithesis of consciousness in that it must be tamed to some degree to enter consciousness - it must be made to serve some known or understood value.

The deep state does not serve such a value, it is in part the 'blind frenzy of drives' that some philosophers posit as the state 'before creation' ; the splitting headache of god so to speak, from which many possible future's are trying to be born, but the sheer volume of futures that seek to manifest through the machinations of the deep state prevents any of them from fully taking shape. This goes for wonderful scenarios and nuclear holocausts. Whatever does in the end take shape is a massive balancing act in which many different motives are being included - from the most malicious to the most fertile. The irreducible absurdity of the political reality that is visible to us is a result of the excess of power that we refuse to acknowledge; I said earlier that it is like 'all great things must first wear monstrous masks'- in the sense that deep state represents a power that human culture is not ready to claim as a consciousness - and that is not ready to be claimed by such a restrictive thing as consciousness.

It is a game, almost like a dream. Intra-deep state communications can often take an opaque form almost like divination. And in turn, to 'hook' the deep state to a purpose, it is necessary to 'romance' it for a period - because the complexity of that machine of technocratic powers and restraints is so much deeper than the complexity of most known human concerns, it is not possible to directly address it - one almost needs to create (or divine) a proper language to address the deep state in such a way as to get the desired results from it - or rather, to cause it to attach, as a power, to ones plans. Yes, the deep state must always serve job security of its members, but this means that very intricate games must be played, where all kinds of necessities are conjured up out of nothing and real concerns are shrouded and made more complex than they are - real concerns must turn more complex to engage the deep state simply because the deep state is unable to operate straightforwardly - it "doesn't see straight" in that sense, observers comment earlier was astute - there is no direct link between deep state and the People - in fact there is a deep hatred in the people of that depth of power that technocracy represents and thus a refusal to think about the deep state or acknowledge it - all this goes well with the metaphor of the subconscious.

In any case just like the subconscious is basically the body in as far as the ego isn't conscious of it, so the deep state is the operational body of the state, the technocracy, in as far as the 'commander in chief' and 'house of representatives' and 'governors' are unaware of its functioning. As mentioned before the clandestine services are there in part to bridge that gap from the bottom up; in this metaphor they would be the dreams that convey messages to the people in power, distorted, fragmented images of the unfathomably complex issues at the depth of the permanent global power struggle of human clans against each other in the rising tide of technocratic advances, which must be turned into assets even rather than be understood -

As straightforward as the concept of deep state as technocratic functionaries is, the mechanisms by which it influences the known world are extremely manifold and bizarre. Precisely because functionaries are anonymous types of humans who, in their lack of ideology other than the love of capacity in its various technical forms, have no criteria by which to measure the worth of what they're doing in terms of the world it impacts, deep state can only judge itself in terms of its success in being ahead in the game it plays against its counterparts. In a sense, deep state is an advanced application of the scientific method; constantly testing its functions sheerly in terms of consistent functionality.

'Above ground' (in nominal consciousness of power, i.e. politics and ideology), we have postmodernism - the world in which words are king and steward and which refuses to be broken down beyond convention - as you astutely observe, humanity is largely a kind of 'common law' - a world in which 'all is text' - it doesn't matter what someone does, as long as he says the right things - a conjurer-magicians world really for a very childish audience, for an audience that doesn't wish to look into the blind fury of drives that refuses to be caught in neat terms and tested social formulae - a world of 'reason' based on blunt logical instruments vs a world of madness based on very sharp such instruments.

Indeed the Chinese have long mastered this idea of acting subconsciously under the auspices of consciousness, an acceptance which eliminates a good deal of the madness - it is understood that reality (the body, the functioning) is addressed indirectly through suggestion, rather than directly through terms. The deep state does not work with any known world on terms -- it works through provocations, evocation and invocation....

Where it surfaces, it comes from the chasm between human identity and human power. Despair is a large part of its resource - it is an answer to despair and therefore reflects the nature of despair uncannily. The current tapestry of policies it has unrolled, crystallizing part of its power, is like ice flowers on the surface of the abyss.... even where it unrolls plans fabricated by wealthy clans, it does so primarily to designate its own power, and bends these plans to this purpose; it will not simply 'obey' - it has no conception of the sort of respect that would command obedience to anything but functionality.
And so the deep nerd remains unscrutinized. The abstraction of the nerd is compulsive abstraction, pre-reasonable abstraction, visceral will to power. Schopenhauer's fever like existentialism rather than the Nietzschean teleology of taste.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: The Deep State

Postby encode_decode » Sun May 02, 2021 12:39 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Encode - For lack of a better expression, it seems you're smelling blood, are on a trail - and in order to not block this scent of blood let me just 'ramble on' a bit rather than to frame the thing in transparent frameworks.

Yeah, right on. I will do my best to keep up. I have been working pretty hard(this has been 24 hours for me). I like to be as expressive as I can so I just come out and say many forms of crazy, lol - it probably descends further into insanity the less sleep I have. I really enjoy the way you write, however. I have read a bunch of stuff that you have written outside of this thread too. I have my favorite thread authors on this forum - I truly enjoy the mental assault I get from all the different opinions. This thread has been enjoyable. I have enjoyed reading everyone's input. Hopefully, we all served Gloominary well in this instance. Anyway, I read over what you wrote and will do it again. There are things in life that are worth partaking in more than once.
I will build a nerdlike structure in 2021
I only meant that the cat knows - or discovers - that we can toss it out a window at any time = "authority". Dogs accept that notion more quickly - not as willing to test it. O:) - obsrvr524
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun May 02, 2021 1:40 am

Insanity is a kind of cauldron, philosophy can absolutely not exist without it - yet many take the cauldron for the potion.
Its reversed from the normal picture - the stern cauldron containing the fiery soup; here we have the vessel of fire shaping in its midst the instrument, that mind which we forge, the philosophers stone.

Indeed I managed to forget to add my reply to Gloominary -

Gloominary wrote:So for you, it's more unelected veterans in government and the military than it is financial and political interests outside it.
To what degree do these veterans conspire together for power and profit against the welfare and/or wishes of the people, and in what ways?

I think that ultimately the essence of its conspirators efforts is to learn. The deep state is a scientific edifice, the modern variant Prussian in origin, it was the phenomenon that brought together the German nation from the claws of the Austro Hungarian and the French empires - it leveraged its resources exceptionally well by precisely knowing their impact. It exists of course to advance state power, to do so it must study, and thus experiment; an extremely useful method that spy-minds have always used is to place a symbolic and pragmatic signifier near a conscious substance of interest and observe its response. By learning what a substance is capable of we bring it into the realm of our security.

That, from learning certain things, certain consequences are allowed to take place is a second step, and not the essence of deep state action, in my analysis.

For context by the way on all this consider that Nietzsche, the philosopher of power and politics pur sang, grew up during the Prussian takeover and the formation of Germany; he published his first book directly after Bismarck completed his world-shaping magic. What is perhaps most telling of all things Nietzsche ever clarified about politics is that he didn't say a single useful thing about the political power taking shape around him; he only wrote in extremely useful ways to power as it sought to follow through; Nietzsche is in that sense part of the German deep state, and thus at the origin of our own, current one. This pedigree of the deep state is quite telling in light of the current events.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
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