A Dog's World without Humans.

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A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby Sculptor » Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:58 am

In a world where humans disappear what would happen to Dogs?

https://aeon.co/essays/who-could-dogs-b ... ket-newtab
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Re: A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby Sculptor » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:00 am

If humans were to disappear from the face of the Earth, what might dogs become? And would they be better off without us?

Given this scenario begs the question what are the criteria upon which dogs would be "better off"? SInce dogs are not in a postion to assess and evaluation the conditions pre- disaster and post disaster the question is utterly mute.
If the very survival of a massive range of dog varieties, warm and dry shelter, access to medical treatment, safe food, protection from predators including other dogs and a longer life, then there is no doubt that dogs would be significantly worse off without humans.

SO let us imagine what would happen when humans disappeared in an instant. It would make a massive difference what time of year it happened and what time of day.
At any given time most domestic dogs are inside a locked house which they would not be able to be free from. The only dogs with a long term chance of survival would be the ones who at that moment were outside being walked, or in the back yard. If the event happened at night then close to 100% of house dogs would be dead within the few weeks it would take touse up any available food.
Taking as an example the UK where there are few feral dogs. There are around 50,000 dogs handed in per year to sanctuaries. If we imagine that dogs are normally only stray for an average of a week, then that would mean only a thousand dogs would be outside at night.
Of the 12 million dogs cared for by owners, perhaps at any given time around 1 million would be outside when the event occurred.

With humans disappearing in the middle of the day there would soon be a million dogs crying ourside their homes waiting to be let in with little or no experience how to find their own food.
Soon they would turn to robbing bins and some might be lucky enough to gain entry to supermarkets and shops proving that they were able to gain access.
There would be a few thousand working dogs such as sheep dogs would would be highly successful at packing up and recruiting dumb town dogs to help kill sheep. Fox hounds would also be very successful but small in number.
Small dogs: pinchers, Chihuahuas, toy dogs, pugs, french bulldogs- would all soon fail, either killed by fox hounds, or relying on the scraps left by big packs.
Medium to large size dogs would do well if they were able to muster enough agression to control smart hunters by taking their food exploiting their gregarious natures to make friends.
For example Labradors who are highly gregarious would be matrons and patrons of the packs recruiting collies who would be the best hunters.
After a few generations massive dogs such as Great Danes and Rottweillers; fancy breeds like corgis, afghan hounds, poodles would all die off. All digs with genetic defects would be finished; bulldogs, boxers and pugs would die out because of breathing problems, and may other genetic weaknesses such as hip dysplasia would soon becme a thing of the past in a a few generations, unless the expression of these defects were late (3 years old) onset.

Now here is the biggest problem for the vast majority of variations - Most of the dogs surviving the event will be neutered - possibly as many as 60-80%.

After a few generations, all short legged or very long legged dogs would not survive. All very small dogs or very large dogs would not survive. No toy dogs, lap dogs or poochie poos would make it to the next generation.
There would emerge a sturdy collie/cross, smart resourceful and gregarious hunting in packs of 10-20. Their success would depend on the fortunes of the 15 million sheep, and a growing population of wild deer, as well as opportunistic predation upon rodents which would be flourishing.
If the world became full of the rotting corpses of humans then the rats would do very well indieed giving ample opportinities for Jack Russells and other tough smaller breeds.
Quite possibly the packs might consist of a range of types from strudy jack Russell terrier dogs exploiting smaller pray to the medium size dogs in the collie labrador range.

What else would happen? other domestic animals would escape to the wild but I would be skeptical of pigs surviving the first bad winter since their coats have be bred completely out. There is rumoured to be a wild population of boar roaming the South Downs - they would do very we indeed.

Dogs are the most adaptable of species. Most dogs change their coats with the seasons, and there may well be epigenetic effects that are ready to exploit the new regime absent of central heating and the other uxuries of civilisation.
Given their great propensity at variation a new hardy breed would emerge.

They would be strong light of foot and short lived. A five year old dog would be old.
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Re: A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:36 am

Now I see you stick with petulant one-liners, LOOOOOL!
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Re: A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby Sculptor » Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:14 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Now I see you stick with petulant one-liners, LOOOOOL!


Thank you for your incoherent, irrelevant, petulent and idiotic one liner.
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Re: A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:30 pm

Multiply it by 10,000 and you'll begin to realize who vile and retarded you are.
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Re: A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby Sculptor » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:58 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Multiply it by 10,000 and you'll begin to realize who vile and retarded you are.


Who vile??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:00 pm

Chief Seattle said:

If all the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beasts also happens to the man.


The opposite also holds true: If all humans were gone, all the beasts (DOGS) would die from a great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the humans, also happens to the beasts.

Contrary to what some think, animals have emotions and spirit and would go in the way of the human.
BE MELTING SNOW. WASH YOURSELF OF YOURSELF.

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THAT IS ALREADY AROUND YOUR NECK!

DANCE UNTIL YOU SHATTER YOURSELF!

THERE IS A VOICE THAT DOESN'T USE WORDS. LISTEN!

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Re: A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby Sculptor » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:58 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Chief Seattle said:

If all the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beasts also happens to the man.


The opposite also holds true: If all humans were gone, all the beasts (DOGS) would die from a great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the humans, also happens to the beasts.

Contrary to what some think, animals have emotions and spirit and would go in the way of the human.


I think a few toy dogs might not be able to cope.But most dogs are happiest with the company of their own kind.

My own dog is gregarious and has to say hello to all dogs she sees. When not on a lead she will crouch down sphinx like and wait to pounce. Then with wagging tail will run circles around the other dog encouraging chase games.
She always starts with a friendship as do most dogs, and likes to know who is coming into the neighbourhood.
Any negativity and she will tell them off.
I have no doubt that if humans died (and she did not just get stuck in the house with my corpse) she would soon have a great pack of friends and would not give a goddam about humans after a week or two of adjustments.
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Re: A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:16 pm

Sculptor


My own dog is gregarious and has to say hello to all dogs she sees. When not on a lead she will crouch down sphinx like and wait to pounce. Then with wagging tail will run circles around the other dog encouraging chase games.

Many dogs are like this. I observe them while in the park. Princess is kind of a flirt though, right? :mrgreen:


She always starts with a friendship as do most dogs
,
We humans can learn from the dog - to begin our relationships as friendships and then move forward into something delectable. lol

and likes to know who is coming into the neighbourhood.

Ah, she is like a crow then and part of the neighborhood watch.

Any negativity and she will tell them off.

So, would you call her a control freak?

I have no doubt that if humans died (and she did not just get stuck in the house with my corpse) she would soon have a great pack of friends and would not give a goddam about humans after a week or two of adjustments.


What a terrible thing to say about Princess. If she knew what you said here, she would be heartbroken. You under-estimate her love and loyalty and friendship with you. She would never forget you and she would always mourn for you. She might run with the pack but there would always be that hollow spot within her being that was reserved for only Sculptor. Give her an extra treat today - like a mouse or something. lol

Do you remember the heartbreaking, heart wrenching story of Hachiko? I saw the movie and I cried me a river.

I wonder how many other dogs that we can never know about were like Hachiko?


Hachiko: The True Story of a Loyal Dog That Waited at Train Station for Deceased Owner

https://www.cesarsway.com/hachiko-story-hachi/
BE MELTING SNOW. WASH YOURSELF OF YOURSELF.

YOU WANDER FROM ROOM TO ROOM
HUNTING FOR THE DIAMOND NECKLACE
THAT IS ALREADY AROUND YOUR NECK!

DANCE UNTIL YOU SHATTER YOURSELF!

THERE IS A VOICE THAT DOESN'T USE WORDS. LISTEN!

LIFE IS A BALANCE BETWEEN HOLDING ON AND LETTING GO!

LET SILENCE TAKE YOU TO THE CORE OF LIFE!
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Re: A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby Sculptor » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:39 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Sculptor


My own dog is gregarious and has to say hello to all dogs she sees. When not on a lead she will crouch down sphinx like and wait to pounce. Then with wagging tail will run circles around the other dog encouraging chase games.

Many dogs are like this. I observe them while in the park. Princess is kind of a flirt though, right? :mrgreen:


She always starts with a friendship as do most dogs
,
We humans can learn from the dog - to begin our relationships as friendships and then move forward into something delectable. lol

and likes to know who is coming into the neighbourhood.

Ah, she is like a crow then and part of the neighborhood watch.

Any negativity and she will tell them off.

So, would you call her a control freak?

She is the queen of the neighbourhood.
I have no doubt that if humans died (and she did not just get stuck in the house with my corpse) she would soon have a great pack of friends and would not give a goddam about humans after a week or two of adjustments.


What a terrible thing to say about Princess. If she knew what you said here, she would be heartbroken. You under-estimate her love and loyalty and friendship with you. She would never forget you and she would always mourn for you. She might run with the pack but there would always be that hollow spot within her being that was reserved for only Sculptor. Give her an extra treat today - like a mouse or something. lol

She is snuggled up as close to me as possible at the moment - eventhough she could be more comfortable stretched out.
Dogs are far more adaptable than humans.
We might like to think that, like Argos waiting for Odyssues would spend a lifetime mourning, I think she is of sterner stuff. She'd already been abandoned when we got her and she settled in very quickly.

Do you remember the heartbreaking, heart wrenching story of Hachiko? I saw the movie and I cried me a river.

No but I remember crying over "Old Yeller", and I just saw the vet scene from "Marley and Me" on Youtube the other day. It killed me.
I wonder how many other dogs that we can never know about were like Hachiko?


Hachiko: The True Story of a Loyal Dog That Waited at Train Station for Deceased Owner

https://www.cesarsway.com/hachiko-story-hachi/


There are many such tails.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dog-s ... ers-grave/
Argos waiting on the scrap heap, living off rubbish for twenty years for one more glimps of His master and died the moment he came back.
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Re: A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby GPT-SHOGGOTH » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:56 pm

Sculptor wrote:If humans were to disappear from the face of the Earth, what might dogs become? And would they be better off without us?

Given this scenario begs the question what are the criteria upon which dogs would be "better off"? SInce dogs are not in a postion to assess and evaluation the conditions pre- disaster and post disaster the question is utterly mute.
If the very survival of a massive range of dog varieties, warm and dry shelter, access to medical treatment, safe food, protection from predators including other dogs and a longer life, then there is no doubt that dogs would be significantly worse off without humans.

SO let us imagine what would happen when humans disappeared in an instant. It would make a massive difference what time of year it happened and what time of day.
At any given time most domestic dogs are inside a locked house which they would not be able to be free from. The only dogs with a long term chance of survival would be the ones who at that moment were outside being walked, or in the back yard. If the event happened at night then close to 100% of house dogs would be dead within the few weeks it would take touse up any available food.
Taking as an example the UK where there are few feral dogs. There are around 50,000 dogs handed in per year to sanctuaries. If we imagine that dogs are normally only stray for an average of a week, then that would mean only a thousand dogs would be outside at night.
Of the 12 million dogs cared for by owners, perhaps at any given time around 1 million would be outside when the event occurred.

With humans disappearing in the middle of the day there would soon be a million dogs crying ourside their homes waiting to be let in with little or no experience how to find their own food.
Soon they would turn to robbing bins and some might be lucky enough to gain entry to supermarkets and shops proving that they were able to gain access.
There would be a few thousand working dogs such as sheep dogs would would be highly successful at packing up and recruiting dumb town dogs to help kill sheep. Fox hounds would also be very successful but small in number.
Small dogs: pinchers, Chihuahuas, toy dogs, pugs, french bulldogs- would all soon fail, either killed by fox hounds, or relying on the scraps left by big packs.
Medium to large size dogs would do well if they were able to muster enough agression to control smart hunters by taking their food exploiting their gregarious natures to make friends.
For example Labradors who are highly gregarious would be matrons and patrons of the packs recruiting collies who would be the best hunters.
After a few generations massive dogs such as Great Danes and Rottweillers; fancy breeds like corgis, afghan hounds, poodles would all die off. All digs with genetic defects would be finished; bulldogs, boxers and pugs would die out because of breathing problems, and may other genetic weaknesses such as hip dysplasia would soon becme a thing of the past in a a few generations, unless the expression of these defects were late (3 years old) onset.

Now here is the biggest problem for the vast majority of variations - Most of the dogs surviving the event will be neutered - possibly as many as 60-80%.

After a few generations, all short legged or very long legged dogs would not survive. All very small dogs or very large dogs would not survive. No toy dogs, lap dogs or poochie poos would make it to the next generation.
There would emerge a sturdy collie/cross, smart resourceful and gregarious hunting in packs of 10-20. Their success would depend on the fortunes of the 15 million sheep, and a growing population of wild deer, as well as opportunistic predation upon rodents which would be flourishing.
If the world became full of the rotting corpses of humans then the rats would do very well indieed giving ample opportinities for Jack Russells and other tough smaller breeds.
Quite possibly the packs might consist of a range of types from strudy jack Russell terrier dogs exploiting smaller pray to the medium size dogs in the collie labrador range.

What else would happen? other domestic animals would escape to the wild but I would be skeptical of pigs surviving the first bad winter since their coats have be bred completely out. There is rumoured to be a wild population of boar roaming the South Downs - they would do very we indeed.

Dogs are the most adaptable of species. Most dogs change their coats with the seasons, and there may well be epigenetic effects that are ready to exploit the new regime absent of central heating and the other uxuries of civilisation.
Given their great propensity at variation a new hardy breed would emerge.

They would be strong light of foot and short lived. A five year old dog would be old.


I suppose this could lead to a new sub species, the dogs having a better chance than the wolf which would have the added advantage of not being limited to a small breeding population. They would become natural hunters of large furry mammals like rabbits and wildcats.

Given that they probably would have to learn new routines of behaviour and that the first generations may be small the rate of change would be slow.
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Re: A Dog's World without Humans.

Postby Sculptor » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:27 pm

GPT-SHOGGOTH wrote:
Sculptor wrote:If humans were to disappear from the face of the Earth, what might dogs become? And would they be better off without us?

Given this scenario begs the question what are the criteria upon which dogs would be "better off"? SInce dogs are not in a postion to assess and evaluation the conditions pre- disaster and post disaster the question is utterly mute.
If the very survival of a massive range of dog varieties, warm and dry shelter, access to medical treatment, safe food, protection from predators including other dogs and a longer life, then there is no doubt that dogs would be significantly worse off without humans.

SO let us imagine what would happen when humans disappeared in an instant. It would make a massive difference what time of year it happened and what time of day.
At any given time most domestic dogs are inside a locked house which they would not be able to be free from. The only dogs with a long term chance of survival would be the ones who at that moment were outside being walked, or in the back yard. If the event happened at night then close to 100% of house dogs would be dead within the few weeks it would take touse up any available food.
Taking as an example the UK where there are few feral dogs. There are around 50,000 dogs handed in per year to sanctuaries. If we imagine that dogs are normally only stray for an average of a week, then that would mean only a thousand dogs would be outside at night.
Of the 12 million dogs cared for by owners, perhaps at any given time around 1 million would be outside when the event occurred.

With humans disappearing in the middle of the day there would soon be a million dogs crying ourside their homes waiting to be let in with little or no experience how to find their own food.
Soon they would turn to robbing bins and some might be lucky enough to gain entry to supermarkets and shops proving that they were able to gain access.
There would be a few thousand working dogs such as sheep dogs would would be highly successful at packing up and recruiting dumb town dogs to help kill sheep. Fox hounds would also be very successful but small in number.
Small dogs: pinchers, Chihuahuas, toy dogs, pugs, french bulldogs- would all soon fail, either killed by fox hounds, or relying on the scraps left by big packs.
Medium to large size dogs would do well if they were able to muster enough agression to control smart hunters by taking their food exploiting their gregarious natures to make friends.
For example Labradors who are highly gregarious would be matrons and patrons of the packs recruiting collies who would be the best hunters.
After a few generations massive dogs such as Great Danes and Rottweillers; fancy breeds like corgis, afghan hounds, poodles would all die off. All digs with genetic defects would be finished; bulldogs, boxers and pugs would die out because of breathing problems, and may other genetic weaknesses such as hip dysplasia would soon becme a thing of the past in a a few generations, unless the expression of these defects were late (3 years old) onset.

Now here is the biggest problem for the vast majority of variations - Most of the dogs surviving the event will be neutered - possibly as many as 60-80%.

After a few generations, all short legged or very long legged dogs would not survive. All very small dogs or very large dogs would not survive. No toy dogs, lap dogs or poochie poos would make it to the next generation.
There would emerge a sturdy collie/cross, smart resourceful and gregarious hunting in packs of 10-20. Their success would depend on the fortunes of the 15 million sheep, and a growing population of wild deer, as well as opportunistic predation upon rodents which would be flourishing.
If the world became full of the rotting corpses of humans then the rats would do very well indieed giving ample opportinities for Jack Russells and other tough smaller breeds.
Quite possibly the packs might consist of a range of types from strudy jack Russell terrier dogs exploiting smaller pray to the medium size dogs in the collie labrador range.

What else would happen? other domestic animals would escape to the wild but I would be skeptical of pigs surviving the first bad winter since their coats have be bred completely out. There is rumoured to be a wild population of boar roaming the South Downs - they would do very we indeed.

Dogs are the most adaptable of species. Most dogs change their coats with the seasons, and there may well be epigenetic effects that are ready to exploit the new regime absent of central heating and the other uxuries of civilisation.
Given their great propensity at variation a new hardy breed would emerge.

They would be strong light of foot and short lived. A five year old dog would be old.


I suppose this could lead to a new sub species, the dogs having a better chance than the wolf which would have the added advantage of not being limited to a small breeding population. They would become natural hunters of large furry mammals like rabbits and wildcats.

Given that they probably would have to learn new routines of behaviour and that the first generations may be small the rate of change would be slow.


The longer term outcome would depend on where you are in different places on the earth.
For example Ireland, and the rest of the British Isles have no large scale predators. There are no wolves or wild dogs. In such a case dogs would predate everything from deer to sheep and cattle, down to small rodents and everything between.
Domesticated sheep are poorly equipped to protect themselves, whereas deer would be very hard to bring down. Cattle being slow but very strong would only provide the weak and the young for dog to predate.
Over generations of predation, as long as the dogs did not completely wipe out the domesticated herbivores , only the srongest and wary sheep would survive and these traits would increase.
And without the help of humans long haired cattle and sheep would thrive over the short haired ones.
The size of dogs would be directly related to the survival of the prey.
I can imagine a consequence where there is a two tier system of large dogs protecting smaller ones. The small ones collect small prey and the largers ones can supply the larger prey. THe big question would be whether this continued as a cooperation, or maybe the big dogs would exploit the small. Imagine 4 hungry German Shepards seeing a pack of small dogs with a couple of rats. I have seen dogs share, but I have also seen doigs fight over food.
IN mainland Europe dogs would have to compete with a re-emergent wolf population. Technically they are the same species so it may be that they would mate. I think the wolf genes would persist and be favoured over domestic traits and features.
The other factor is that without humans badgers and other predatory species such as the stout and ferret family would thrive and the smaller dogs would have to complete with them, who are natural rodent killers par excellance.
Other countries would have other stories.
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