Devolution

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Re: Devolution

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:05 pm

Change, unless it's careful and methodical, is often bad.
We should approach dramatic change with caution.
Often it's better to keep things as is.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:11 pm

Gloominary wrote:There are two primary forces in evolution, mutations and natural selection.
The former tends to pull species back, the latter tends to push them forward.
Sometimes the former wins out, sometimes the latter.
It's a dance.
For Sculptor, and other members of the cult (progressivism), the latter always wins out.

Agreed. I just didn't see how he could claim that devolution is a value judgment, having nothing to do with evolution as he interprets it. Wouldn't it be nice if evolution were only progressive? No species would ever become extinct.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:12 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
Gloominary wrote:There are two primary forces in evolution, mutations and natural selection.
The former tends to pull species back, the latter tends to push them forward.
Sometimes the former wins out, sometimes the latter.
It's a dance.
For Sculptor, and other members of the cult (progressivism), the latter always wins out.

Agreed. I just didn't see how he could claim that devolution is a value judgment, having nothing to do with evolution as he interprets it. Wouldn't it be nice if evolution were only progressive? No species would ever become extinct.

Exactly
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Re: Devolution

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:14 pm

Sculptor is a pseudo-objectivist.
For him, only progress is objective, regress subjective.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Sculptor » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:22 pm

Gloominary wrote:Sculptor is a pseudo-objectivist.
For him, only progress is objective, regress subjective.


Man, you can't even fucking read.
Fuckwit!
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Re: Devolution

Postby Sculptor » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:24 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
Gloominary wrote:There are two primary forces in evolution, mutations and natural selection.
The former tends to pull species back, the latter tends to push them forward.
Sometimes the former wins out, sometimes the latter.
It's a dance.
For Sculptor, and other members of the cult (progressivism), the latter always wins out.

Agreed. I just didn't see how he could claim that devolution is a value judgment, having nothing to do with evolution as he interprets it. Wouldn't it be nice if evolution were only progressive? No species would ever become extinct.


The concept relates to the idea that evolution has a purpose (teleology) and is progressive (orthogenesis), for example that feet might be better than hooves or lungs than gills. However, evolutionary biology makes no such assumptions, and natural selection shapes adaptations with no foreknowledge of any kind. It is possible for small changes (such as in the frequency of a single gene) to be reversed by chance or selection, but this is no different from the normal course of evolution and as such de-evolution is not compatible with a proper understanding of evolution due to natural selection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_(biology)
Educate yourself.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:30 pm

For him, change and inclusivity always = progress, never regress.
And progress is natural, regress artificial.
Regress only happens if you conscientiously oppose change and inclusivity, as if we often don't instinctively oppose change and inclusivity, and for good reason.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:37 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:
Gloominary wrote:There are two primary forces in evolution, mutations and natural selection.
The former tends to pull species back, the latter tends to push them forward.
Sometimes the former wins out, sometimes the latter.
It's a dance.
For Sculptor, and other members of the cult (progressivism), the latter always wins out.

Agreed. I just didn't see how he could claim that devolution is a value judgment, having nothing to do with evolution as he interprets it. Wouldn't it be nice if evolution were only progressive? No species would ever become extinct.


The concept relates to the idea that evolution has a purpose (teleology) and is progressive (orthogenesis), for example that feet might be better than hooves or lungs than gills. However, evolutionary biology makes no such assumptions, and natural selection shapes adaptations with no foreknowledge of any kind. It is possible for small changes (such as in the frequency of a single gene) to be reversed by chance or selection, but this is no different from the normal course of evolution and as such de-evolution is not compatible with a proper understanding of evolution due to natural selection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_(biology)
Educate yourself.

No one is claiming feet are necessarily better than hooves, this is a strawman.
You're use to debating this stuff with the ignorant and theists.
I'm an agnostic and know more about evolution than you do.
You're a progressive, your ideology is clouding your perception of evolution.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:42 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Sculptor is a pseudo-objectivist.
For him, only progress is objective, regress subjective.


Man, you can't even fucking read.
Fuckwit!


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Re: Devolution

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:35 pm

For the fanatical progressive, evolution is always progressive.
They've deified the evolutionary process.

For them, hope, change and inclusivity (for all practical purposes) are good (aesthetically/ethically/reproductively) and often natural, whereas prudence, stability and exclusivity are bad and unnatural.

It's religion masquerading as science.
Not that I always go with (mainstream) science, but I'm honest with myself and others when I depart from it.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:44 pm

Has gain of function research produced anything but virus variance? Just curious.

Clearly social devolution is a thing.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

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Re: Devolution

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:45 pm

What do I mean by devolution?
Do I mean humanity and everything about it is the pinnacle of evolution and mutations that take us in a novel direction or to an earlier stage in our evolutionary development are necessarily bad (unfit)?
No, that's not how me and Ierrellus were defining devolution, we already explained it multiple times.
We mean that sometimes species become less fit due to a buildup of unfit or less fit mutations not being filtered out.
Fit could be anything, in some circumstances flippers and gills could be fitter than feet and lungs.
In some circumstances 8 eyes and 8 limbs could be fitter than 2 and 4 or vice versa.
Last edited by Gloominary on Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:52 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:53 pm

Gloominary wrote:For the fanatical progressive, evolution is always progressive.
They've deified the evolutionary process.

For them, hope, change and inclusivity (for all practical purposes) are good (aesthetically/ethically/reproductively) and often natural, whereas prudence, stability and exclusivity are bad and unnatural.

It's religion masquerading as science.
Not that I always go with (mainstream) science, but I'm honest with myself and others when I depart from it.

Notice how they completely deny any and all times Evolution produces Disparity, Difference, and Inequality.

It's selective-reasoning. Progressives believe in "Devolution" when the immediate result is a difference of political opinion, for example.

It's their rational blindspot. They literally cannot figure it out, selective Ignorance.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:39 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Gloominary wrote:For the fanatical progressive, evolution is always progressive.
They've deified the evolutionary process.

For them, hope, change and inclusivity (for all practical purposes) are good (aesthetically/ethically/reproductively) and often natural, whereas prudence, stability and exclusivity are bad and unnatural.

It's religion masquerading as science.
Not that I always go with (mainstream) science, but I'm honest with myself and others when I depart from it.

Notice how they completely deny any and all times Evolution produces Disparity, Difference, and Inequality.

It's selective-reasoning. Progressives believe in "Devolution" when the immediate result is a difference of political opinion, for example.

It's their rational blindspot. They literally cannot figure it out, selective Ignorance.

Right, progressives tend to see equality and similarity across species, demographics and individuals.

The fanatics are largely or wholly incapable of seeing blatant inequality/difference and will try to censor and penalize those who can.
For them, by far and away the greatest, if not the only inequality/difference lies not in the objective world, but in the subjective 'misapprehension' of it.
Yea it's ironic how starkly they divvy people up for professed 'egalitarians'.
There are the good people like themselves, who deny blatant inequality/difference, the bad people who refuse to deny it, and hardly anyone if anyone at all in between.

This is why the fanatical left eats its own all the time.
The hero of yesterday becomes the villain of today.
There is no room for error in the cult of progressivism, no forgiveness, grace, mercy or redemption like there is in Christianity and to a lesser extent other world religions, hence call out and cancel culture, people are socioeconomically ruined for trivial shit they said or did decades ago.

Now I'm not saying all progressives are like this, there are moderate and reasonable progressives, but unfortunately the fanatics have gone mainstream, especially on cultural, racial, sexual, climatic and now medical issues.
But on the + side, they're receiving a lot of pushback from libertarians and rightwing populists, hopefully they'll receive a lot more in the coming weeks, months and years.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Gloominary » Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:07 am

As an aside, (the cult of) progressivism isn't always aligned with (the cult of) scientism.
Sometimes progressives reject scientism in favor of black, indigenous or hippie alt science.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:59 am

Gloominary wrote:But on the + side, they're receiving a lot of pushback from libertarians and rightwing populists, hopefully they'll receive a lot more in the coming weeks, months and years.

Yeah, I believe so.

It seems most of the political-Right Conservative Republican can no longer tolerate the derangement and immorality, corruption of the political-Left.

The United States will become the Divided States of America.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Ierrellus » Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:26 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Gloominary wrote:But on the + side, they're receiving a lot of pushback from libertarians and rightwing populists, hopefully they'll receive a lot more in the coming weeks, months and years.

Yeah, I believe so.

It seems most of the political-Right Conservative Republican can no longer tolerate the derangement and immorality, corruption of the political-Left.

The United States will become the Divided States of America.

For the left, the right is politically corrupt. For the right, the left is politically corrupt. Society as a whole suffers from this regression to civil war attitudes.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Sculptor » Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:57 pm

Gloominary wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:]
Agreed. I just didn't see how he could claim that devolution is a value judgment, having nothing to do with evolution as he interprets it. Wouldn't it be nice if evolution were only progressive? No species would ever become extinct.


The concept relates to the idea that evolution has a purpose (teleology) and is progressive (orthogenesis), for example that feet might be better than hooves or lungs than gills. However, evolutionary biology makes no such assumptions, and natural selection shapes adaptations with no foreknowledge of any kind. It is possible for small changes (such as in the frequency of a single gene) to be reversed by chance or selection, but this is no different from the normal course of evolution and as such de-evolution is not compatible with a proper understanding of evolution due to natural selection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_(biology)
Educate yourself.

No one is claiming feet are necessarily better than hooves, this is a strawman.
You're use to debating this stuff with the ignorant and theists.
I'm an agnostic and know more about evolution than you do.
You're a progressive, your ideology is clouding your perception of evolution.


You are a lost cause.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:30 pm

Ierrellus wrote:Society as a whole suffers from this regression to civil war attitudes.

People always blame Leadership.

Who were the last 20 years of Presidents under which this Devolution took place? What does "Make America Great Again" mean?
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Re: Devolution

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:07 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Society as a whole suffers from this regression to civil war attitudes.

People always blame Leadership.

Who were the last 20 years of Presidents under which this Devolution took place? What does "Make America Great Again" mean?

I think "great" refers to the arrogance of the USA for having split the atom, spliced the gene and produced a world-wide internet.
Each of these great accomplishments have not been without downsides.
Leadership is only partly to blame for the condition of a country. For an example of presidential culpability, take Bush's invasion of Iraq, which stirred up a hornet's nest in the Middle East,
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Re: Devolution

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:29 pm

Is the current "scientific" view of evolution the only view possible?
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Re: Devolution

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:08 pm

Ierrellus wrote:I think "great" refers to the arrogance of the USA for having split the atom, spliced the gene and produced a world-wide internet.
Each of these great accomplishments have not been without downsides.
Leadership is only partly to blame for the condition of a country. For an example of presidential culpability, take Bush's invasion of Iraq, which stirred up a hornet's nest in the Middle East,

Bush was garbage. Clinton was garbage. Obama was garbage.

Devolution occurred in a Bipartisan manner; USA is divided because of social degeneration, immorality, and exponential rise of Classism/Socialism.
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Re: Devolution

Postby MagsJ » Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:17 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Gloominary wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
The concept relates to the idea that evolution has a purpose (teleology) and is progressive (orthogenesis), for example that feet might be better than hooves or lungs than gills. However, evolutionary biology makes no such assumptions, and natural selection shapes adaptations with no foreknowledge of any kind. It is possible for small changes (such as in the frequency of a single gene) to be reversed by chance or selection, but this is no different from the normal course of evolution and as such de-evolution is not compatible with a proper understanding of evolution due to natural selection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_(biology)
Educate yourself.

No one is claiming feet are necessarily better than hooves, this is a strawman.
You're use to debating this stuff with the ignorant and theists.
I'm an agnostic and know more about evolution than you do.
You're a progressive, your ideology is clouding your perception of evolution.

You are a lost cause.

But only when others don't agree with you.. how convenient for your belief system to keep being reaffirmed as valid, by your psyche, simply because you say so.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Devolution

Postby MagsJ » Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:28 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:I think "great" refers to the arrogance of the USA for having split the atom, spliced the gene and produced a world-wide internet.
Each of these great accomplishments have not been without downsides.
Leadership is only partly to blame for the condition of a country. For an example of presidential culpability, take Bush's invasion of Iraq, which stirred up a hornet's nest in the Middle East,

Bush was garbage. Clinton was garbage. Obama was garbage.

Devolution occurred in a Bipartisan manner; USA is divided because of social degeneration, immorality, and exponential rise of Classism/Socialism.

Sounds fabulous.. I’mma gonna go get me a one-way ticket to hell, I mean, um, the USA. 8-[

#-o

A few got very very rich (very quick) at the expense of the many.. now, if they give some of those funds, in aid, then ok.. but if not, then no, not ok.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Devolution

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:05 am

MagsJ wrote:Sounds fabulous.. I’mma gonna go get me a one-way ticket to hell, I mean, um, the USA. 8-[

#-o

A few got very very rich (very quick) at the expense of the many.. now, if they give some of those funds, in aid, then ok.. but if not, then no, not ok.

Those that got super-wealthy from corruption, only "give aid" to corrupt officials and minions they can pay-off in bribes, money laundering.

For example, just this week, BLM is being investigated for charity fraud. Just this week, GoFundMe was threatened to be sued for stealing the Truckers charity funds.
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