Sustainability, le terme du jour..

For discussions of culture, politics, economics, sociology, law, business and any other topic that falls under the social science remit.

Would you be happy to eat at a sustainably-sourced eatery?

1. Yes.. mmmm, sounds yummy
4
44%
2. No way.. I ain’t about that sustainability-life
5
56%
 
Total votes : 9

Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:55 pm

Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Indeed.. was that in Metabolical?

Not in so few words but yes.
And you might want to consider "Spoon Fed" by Professsor Tim Spector.
They both recommend the avoidance of processed food and recommend avoiding especially refined carbs.

This is a different issue since there is no direct overlap to "sustainable".

..I’ve abstained from both those items, for decades..

You keep saying that, but both those items have to be made in energy-guzzling manufacturing plants and then emitting toxic waste.. think Nestle etc., so has everything to do with sustainability.

Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:I am very well-aware of all that.. more people should try to become more aware of all that. Remember during Brexit, when the EU said that if we leave we’ll be missing out on continental biscuits, and we all laughed and said we’ll be all the more healthier for it?

I buy British produce whenever I can and try to live sustainably in general, but I always wonder if I can do more.. and if so, what!?

Sculptor wrote: An eatery, any eatery, even an eatery claiming to be has a prime objective - making money.
What might they be peddling that looks other than it proports to be?
Guaranteed organic French Beans? Problem is they are flown in from Kenya.
Responsibly sourced Tuna - problem is they are packed with mercury - Tuna has one of the highest being a predator.

All that non-sustainable nonsense is being rectified where possible, and that is a good place to start as any.. the less of a market there is for such things, the less of them there will be on our shelves and in our shops.

Sculptor wrote:So what did you really want to find out?

I wanted to open up a dialogue about the topic, gauge thoughts on the matter, etc… and not just regarding food, but clothes, lifestyle, household goods and products, etc.

My overriding thought here is that the human population as it is, - nay as it was 100 years ago is inherently unsustainable if we want to keep the earth in good fettle.
Until we address that, most of us will continue to live in poverty and have to eat fake food to live.

Bringing farming and manufacturing back in-house.. Nation-wise, would help solve endemic food crises and over-reliance on anything but that.

Like I said.. a good place to start is buying local, where possible.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:54 pm

MagsJ wrote:Bringing farming and manufacturing back in-house.. Nation-wise, would help solve endemic food crises and over-reliance on anything but that.

Like I said.. a good place to start is buying local, where possible.


Life in the UK has been artificial for a very long time requiring increasing in-roads in the the natural environment and the wholesale import of food for generations; to stem the flow more and more artificial means to produce food have been made such as heated greenhouses and artificial lighting. But still having to import around half of our food.
In the modern period alone the population has grown from 2 million circa 1500 to around 70 million today.
The UK is temperate; cold in winter where no food can grow to hot in the summer where growing food requires technological support to make it in quantities that make it economic.
In 1500 calories were stored in sheep and cattle through the winter fed on hay gathered in the summer, or killed and salted to keep it through till lent; as well as root crops and dried grains.
The prospect of sustainability is somewhat laughable, and unlikely to suspend imports.

PS. Estimates of imports can be as high as 80%.
https://www.businessinsider.com/no-deal ... 2019-1?r=U
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:02 am

Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Bringing farming and manufacturing back in-house.. Nation-wise, would help solve endemic food crises and over-reliance on anything but that.

Like I said.. a good place to start is buying local, where possible.

Life in the UK has been artificial for a very long time requiring increasing in-roads in the the natural environment and the wholesale import of food for generations; to stem the flow more and more artificial means to produce food have been made such as heated greenhouses and artificial lighting. But still having to import around half of our food.
In the modern period alone the population has grown from 2 million circa 1500 to around 70 million today.
The UK is temperate; cold in winter where no food can grow to hot in the summer where growing food requires technological support to make it in quantities that make it economic.
In 1500 calories were stored in sheep and cattle through the winter fed on hay gathered in the summer, or killed and salted to keep it through till lent; as well as root crops and dried grains.
The prospect of sustainability is somewhat laughable, and unlikely to suspend imports.

PS. Estimates of imports can be as high as 80%.
https://www.businessinsider.com/no-deal ... 2019-1?r=U

An old article ^^^ [Jim Edwards Jan 5, 2019, 8:46 AM], so quite irrelevant right now.

Sustainability is not just about food, but about all things..
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:18 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Bringing farming and manufacturing back in-house.. Nation-wise, would help solve endemic food crises and over-reliance on anything but that.

Like I said.. a good place to start is buying local, where possible.

Life in the UK has been artificial for a very long time requiring increasing in-roads in the the natural environment and the wholesale import of food for generations; to stem the flow more and more artificial means to produce food have been made such as heated greenhouses and artificial lighting. But still having to import around half of our food.
In the modern period alone the population has grown from 2 million circa 1500 to around 70 million today.
The UK is temperate; cold in winter where no food can grow to hot in the summer where growing food requires technological support to make it in quantities that make it economic.
In 1500 calories were stored in sheep and cattle through the winter fed on hay gathered in the summer, or killed and salted to keep it through till lent; as well as root crops and dried grains.
The prospect of sustainability is somewhat laughable, and unlikely to suspend imports.

PS. Estimates of imports can be as high as 80%.
https://www.businessinsider.com/no-deal ... 2019-1?r=U

An old article ^^^ [Jim Edwards Jan 5, 2019, 8:46 AM], so quite irrelevant right now.

That is absurd.
The UK has not been in a position of self sufficiency for 200 years.
If anything the article is more apposite now than it was then.

Sustainability is not just about food, but about all things..


Even worse. Since imports and dependencies run the entire gamut of modern life.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:23 pm

Sculptor wrote:The UK has not been in a position of self sufficiency for 200 years.
If anything the article is more apposite now than it was then.

What produce and/or consumer goods and resources, do you mean?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:46 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:The UK has not been in a position of self sufficiency for 200 years.
If anything the article is more apposite now than it was then.

What produce and/or consumer goods and resources, do you mean?


That would be a very big list.
We are so dependant on imports that the UK would be incapable of running the economy.
There are very few things the UK makes more than it imports.
If you want to live by bread alone then you'll be happy to learn that grain is probably the only thing we are self sufficient at.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:09 pm

Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:The UK has not been in a position of self sufficiency for 200 years.
If anything the article is more apposite now than it was then.

What produce and/or consumer goods and resources, do you mean?

That would be a very big list.
We are so dependant on imports that the UK would be incapable of running the economy.
There are very few things the UK makes more than it imports.
If you want to live by bread alone then you'll be happy to learn that grain is probably the only thing we are self sufficient at.

No bread, I’m toxin-intolerant, lol.. the meat, eggs, fruit and vegetables, that I buy, are Uk-produced.. I have mentioned that already, and even if/when I do indulge in (free from) manufactured snacks, they are also UK-made/small-business brands. I think you’re thinking of big brands and chains, here.. I’m not.

In my local mini-mart for instance, the average customer is health-conscious and socio-economically-smart, and most shop like I do.. except for the toxin-abstinence need, well most.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:29 am

MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:What produce and/or consumer goods and resources, do you mean?

That would be a very big list.
We are so dependant on imports that the UK would be incapable of running the economy.
There are very few things the UK makes more than it imports.
If you want to live by bread alone then you'll be happy to learn that grain is probably the only thing we are self sufficient at.

No bread, I’m toxin-intolerant, lol.. the meat, eggs, fruit and vegetables, that I buy, are Uk-produced.. I have mentioned that already, and even if/when I do indulge in (free from) manufactured snacks, they are also UK-made/small-business brands. I think you’re thinking of big brands and chains, here.. I’m not.

In my local mini-mart for instance, the average customer is health-conscious and socio-economically-smart, and most shop like I do.. except for the toxin-abstinence need, well most.


I've not had any processed food since Xmas, except one or two Heinz soups for convenience.
I have only had one meal per day, with tea and coffee with full fat milk.
I have lost over 30lbs and feel better than ever. I am hoping this is sustainable, but I cannot seem to lose anymore weight even though I only eat once per day. I want to lose more, but my body does not want to.
What has surprised me is just how little I need to live on. I wonder if this example were generally applied humanity might be more sustainable too.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:01 pm

Sculptor wrote:I've not had any processed food since Xmas, except one or two Heinz soups for convenience.
I have only had one meal per day, with tea and coffee with full fat milk.
I have lost over 30lbs and feel better than ever. I am hoping this is sustainable, but I cannot seem to lose anymore weight even though I only eat once per day. I want to lose more, but my body does not want to.

It might help to add an extra meal, once or twice a week.. a frittata, lettuce-wrapped cheeseburger, fruit, chicken n vegetable stir-fry etc. etc. etc..

What has surprised me is just how little I need to live on. I wonder if this example were generally applied humanity might be more sustainable too.

That’s the point, and a good one at that.. humans do not need to eat the daily amounts, that they are programmed to think they need to eat, save for a 'victory' cheat/treat-meal once in’a while.. like what animals do.

That type of eating regimen would definitely help humanity be much more sustainable in the long run.. less to no processing, more au naturale.

..also, I replied in here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 4&t=197841 I hadn’t seen this thread until two days ago.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:01 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:I've not had any processed food since Xmas, except one or two Heinz soups for convenience.
I have only had one meal per day, with tea and coffee with full fat milk.
I have lost over 30lbs and feel better than ever. I am hoping this is sustainable, but I cannot seem to lose anymore weight even though I only eat once per day. I want to lose more, but my body does not want to.

It might help to add an extra meal, once or twice a week.. a frittata, lettuce-wrapped cheeseburger, fruit, chicken n vegetable stir-fry etc. etc. etc..

Adding is not gong to initiate loss.

What has surprised me is just how little I need to live on. I wonder if this example were generally applied humanity might be more sustainable too.

That’s the point, and a good one at that.. humans do not need to eat the daily amounts, that they are programmed to think they need to eat, save for a 'victory' cheat/treat-meal once in’a while.. like what animals do.

That type of eating regimen would definitely help humanity be much more sustainable in the long run.. less to no processing, more au naturale.

..also, I replied in here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 4&t=197841 I hadn’t seen this thread until two days ago.


One of the most pernicious and unhealthy myths; breakfast is the most important meal of the day - no.
Another shocking piece of flim-flam - also dangerous; eat little and often. Since when did humans ever have the chance to evolve the ability to eat all day long?
Another slightly less bad; 3 square meals per day.

I have been shocked and amazed how much of a better dieting strategy time restricted eating is to a calorie restricted diet.
I've experienced calorie restriction diets nearly every year of my life since I was 15 yo and they all do the same. They work for a few weeks then, borg-like, the body adapts to lower calories and slows down the metabolism so that you need less, you do less and you need to drop calories further in order for the diet to keep working.
The other problem with calorie restriction is that you have to obsess about food all the time; counting calories, planning meals, - meals which are always unsatisfying.
The body reacts completely differently with fasting. I get a morning boost, and no loss of energy.
There is an evolutionary rationale to this which suggests that having not breakfast is normal and the body give you a glucose boost from fat stores to get you out and hunting. It all make pretty good sense.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:02 pm

Sculptor wrote:Adding is not gong to initiate loss.

Having the odd extra meal or two throughout the month, might though.. the extra calories, taking you briefly out of a slump.

One of the most pernicious and unhealthy myths; breakfast is the most important meal of the day - no.
Another shocking piece of flim-flam - also dangerous; eat little and often. Since when did humans ever have the chance to evolve the ability to eat all day long?
Another slightly less bad; 3 square meals per day.

Best to eat according to expectant daily activity, and not to a daily rigid set schedule.

I have been shocked and amazed how much of a better dieting strategy time restricted eating is to a calorie restricted diet.
I've experienced calorie restriction diets nearly every year of my life since I was 15 yo and they all do the same. They work for a few weeks then, borg-like, the body adapts to lower calories and slows down the metabolism so that you need less, you do less and you need to drop calories further in order for the diet to keep working.
The other problem with calorie restriction is that you have to obsess about food all the time; counting calories, planning meals, - meals which are always unsatisfying.
The body reacts completely differently with fasting. I get a morning boost, and no loss of energy.
There is an evolutionary rationale to this which suggests that having not breakfast is normal and the body give you a glucose boost from fat stores to get you out and hunting. It all make pretty good sense.

Pretty-much, yea.. a case of dietary complacency, breeding metabolic contempt. :-s lol
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:35 am

MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:Adding is not gong to initiate loss.

Having the odd extra meal or two throughout the month, might though.. the extra calories, taking you briefly out of a slump.

One of the most pernicious and unhealthy myths; breakfast is the most important meal of the day - no.
Another shocking piece of flim-flam - also dangerous; eat little and often. Since when did humans ever have the chance to evolve the ability to eat all day long?
Another slightly less bad; 3 square meals per day.

Best to eat according to expectant daily activity, and not to a daily rigid set schedule.

Humans are hopeless at judging when they have reached to last adequate mouthful.
Gary Taubes in his books "Why we get Fat" and "The Case for Keto", calculates that over a life time a morbidly obese person has only consumed one teaspoon of sugar more than ne ought to have done to achieve his fatness.
In other words the gluttony and sloth he has been accused of his whole life is due to his staggering overeating by one more bite everyday.
So we have to rely on the body telling us when we have had enough, which it can do very well - just look at the animal kingdom none of whose members are overweight.

I have been shocked and amazed how much of a better dieting strategy time restricted eating is to a calorie restricted diet.
I've experienced calorie restriction diets nearly every year of my life since I was 15 yo and they all do the same. They work for a few weeks then, borg-like, the body adapts to lower calories and slows down the metabolism so that you need less, you do less and you need to drop calories further in order for the diet to keep working.
The other problem with calorie restriction is that you have to obsess about food all the time; counting calories, planning meals, - meals which are always unsatisfying.
The body reacts completely differently with fasting. I get a morning boost, and no loss of energy.
There is an evolutionary rationale to this which suggests that having not breakfast is normal and the body give you a glucose boost from fat stores to get you out and hunting. It all make pretty good sense.

Pretty-much, yea.. a case of dietary complacency, breeding metabolic contempt. :-s lol


It's all got to do with sugar.
Sugar is the only food type that the body deliberately tries to eat more and more of by supressing satiation and instructing the body to go into storage mode.
Table sugar it half glucose and half fructose.
Glucose is important - but so important that the body can make its own from fat. So we do not need to eat it.
Fructose is not directly usable as food. The body immediately uses fructose to effect Leptin to single hunger, regardless of diet, and immediately stores fructose as fat, in the liver.

Sugar is rare in nature found mostly in the autumn - evolution has figured out a way to best use this. It tells our body to eat, eat, eat, and lay down fat for the winter. To do this most effectively in switches off satiation and fat burning and begins fat storage.
And in a nutshell you have the modern day fat epidemic that is raging across the western world.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:22 pm

Sculptor wrote:Humans are hopeless at judging when they have reached to last adequate mouthful.
Gary Taubes in his books "Why we get Fat" and "The Case for Keto", calculates that over a life time a morbidly obese person has only consumed one teaspoon of sugar more than ne ought to have done to achieve his fatness.
In other words the gluttony and sloth he has been accused of his whole life is due to his staggering overeating by one more bite everyday.
So we have to rely on the body telling us when we have had enough, which it can do very well - just look at the animal kingdom none of whose members are overweight.

I find that eating only when hungry.. like what animals do, takes care of the process of staying lean/mean/keen, without having to even think about it/think about it ever again. Such a weight off the mind.

I do think that weight-management has become more difficult, due to the current metabolism-suppressing environment that we have found ourselves in.

It's all got to do with sugar.
Sugar is the only food type that the body deliberately tries to eat more and more of by supressing satiation and instructing the body to go into storage mode.
Table sugar it half glucose and half fructose.
Glucose is important - but so important that the body can make its own from fat. So we do not need to eat it.
Fructose is not directly usable as food. The body immediately uses fructose to effect Leptin to single hunger, regardless of diet, and immediately stores fructose as fat, in the liver.

Sugar is rare in nature found mostly in the autumn - evolution has figured out a way to best use this. It tells our body to eat, eat, eat, and lay down fat for the winter. To do this most effectively in switches off satiation and fat burning and begins fat storage.
And in a nutshell you have the modern day fat epidemic that is raging across the western world.

Avoid toxins and processed goods and you can’t go wrong.. making the odd treat a healthy one, will also ensure staying on the path of ketosis. Before long, all cravings and constant hunger-pangs start to subside, and we then eat to live not live to eat. Case in point.. as winter drew in, I had no choice but to go from one to two meals a day, or die.. I chose life. :)

I find myself always thinking of my next meal.. even though I’m not hungry one bit, and when that next meal is due it is very-much appreciated and enjoyed, and I’ve stopped craving Rowntrees sweets, chocolate, Kettle Chips/Tyrell’s/cheese Quavers/pickled-onion Monster Munch :lol: (my weaknesses) for good. I don’t even think about them any more.. only about my two meals a day, some fruit here and there, and Bio wine.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:31 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:Humans are hopeless at judging when they have reached to last adequate mouthful.
Gary Taubes in his books "Why we get Fat" and "The Case for Keto", calculates that over a life time a morbidly obese person has only consumed one teaspoon of sugar more than ne ought to have done to achieve his fatness.
In other words the gluttony and sloth he has been accused of his whole life is due to his staggering overeating by one more bite everyday.
So we have to rely on the body telling us when we have had enough, which it can do very well - just look at the animal kingdom none of whose members are overweight.

I find that eating only when hungry.. like what animals do, takes care of the process of staying lean/mean/keen, without having to even think about it/think about it ever again. Such a weight off the mind.

Lucky you.
But many of us are fatties by nature.

I do think that weight-management has become more difficult, due to the current metabolism-suppressing environment that we have found ourselves in.

It's all got to do with sugar.
Sugar is the only food type that the body deliberately tries to eat more and more of by supressing satiation and instructing the body to go into storage mode.
Table sugar it half glucose and half fructose.
Glucose is important - but so important that the body can make its own from fat. So we do not need to eat it.
Fructose is not directly usable as food. The body immediately uses fructose to effect Leptin to single hunger, regardless of diet, and immediately stores fructose as fat, in the liver.

Sugar is rare in nature found mostly in the autumn - evolution has figured out a way to best use this. It tells our body to eat, eat, eat, and lay down fat for the winter. To do this most effectively in switches off satiation and fat burning and begins fat storage.
And in a nutshell you have the modern day fat epidemic that is raging across the western world.

Avoid toxins and processed goods and you can’t go wrong.. making the odd treat a healthy one, will also ensure staying on the path of ketosis. Before long, all cravings and constant hunger-pangs start to subside, and we then eat to live not live to eat. Case in point.. as winter drew in, I had no choice but to go from one to two meals a day, or die.. I chose life. :)

I find myself always thinking of my next meal.. even though I’m not hungry one bit, and when that next meal is due it is very-much appreciated and enjoyed, and I’ve stopped craving Rowntrees sweets, chocolate, Kettle Chips/Tyrell’s/cheese Quavers/pickled-onion Monster Munch :lol: (my weaknesses) for good. I don’t even think about them any more.. only about my two meals a day, some fruit here and there, and Bio wine.


What is bio wine?
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:04 am

Sculptor wrote:What is bio wine?

Bio-diverse, so made with minimal-to-no intervention.

It tastes very different to mainstream wine, but after a while the zero-chemical natural notes become more preferable, and so appreciated.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:41 am

MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:What is bio wine?

Bio-diverse, so made with minimal-to-no intervention.

It tastes very different to mainstream wine, but after a while the zero-chemical natural notes become more preferable, and so appreciated.


There is nothing diverse about wine. All the best wines are made with a single grape from the same region controlled by a Appellation D'origine Contrôlée, in Spain they have something similar.

They do not even add yeast, but rely on natural yeasts on the skin of the grape.
Squash, ferment, drain, settle, pour, drink.

Never heard of bio wine but it sounds like one of those advertising ploys.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:50 pm

Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:What is bio wine?

Bio-diverse, so made with minimal-to-no intervention.

It tastes very different to mainstream wine, but after a while the zero-chemical natural notes become more preferable, and so appreciated.

There is nothing diverse about wine. All the best wines are made with a single grape from the same region controlled by a Appellation D'origine Contrôlée, in Spain they have something similar.

'Best wines' is subjective at best, and there are many non-ADC wine-grape varieties out there that might be preferable to the palate.

They do not even add yeast, but rely on natural yeasts on the skin of the grape.
Squash, ferment, drain, settle, pour, drink.

I have naturally-fermented wine, when I visit my parents or get the chance to drink an old vintage variety wine.. a very Bio method indeed.

Never heard of bio wine

Ah!

..but it sounds like one of those advertising ploys.

What! like the Fairtrade, Soil Association, Organic, and all other designated certifications are? as it’s simply just that.. as is Appellation D'origine Contrôlée, an evident monopolising and marketing ploy.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:42 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Bio-diverse, so made with minimal-to-no intervention.

It tastes very different to mainstream wine, but after a while the zero-chemical natural notes become more preferable, and so appreciated.

There is nothing diverse about wine. All the best wines are made with a single grape from the same region controlled by a Appellation D'origine Contrôlée, in Spain they have something similar.

'Best wines' is subjective at best, and there are many non-ADC wine-grape varieties out there that might be preferable to the palate.

They do not even add yeast, but rely on natural yeasts on the skin of the grape.
Squash, ferment, drain, settle, pour, drink.

I have naturally-fermented wine, when I visit my parents or get the chance to drink an old vintage variety wine.. a very Bio method indeed.

Never heard of bio wine

Ah!

..but it sounds like one of those advertising ploys.

What! like the Fairtrade, Soil Association, Organic, and all other designated certifications are? as it’s simply just that.


Yes. Low Fat, GMO free, High this, low that, reduced salt.
Most utterly irrelevant. If it has to have a special label it is most often trying to hide something.

. as is Appellation D'origine Contrôlée, an evident monopolising and marketing ploy.


Branding like Appellation D'origine Contrôlée, has been a way to protect from fakery. Regional wine makers associate to protect a standard of quality. SO not directly comparable. I means that a wine from Chile cannot be sold as a wine from the Loire valley or Burgundy for example.

Dolphin Friendly Tuna is for example is just a badge you can buy to help sell your tins of tuna, but has no meaning whatever, since there is no scrutiny.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:21 pm

Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:..but it sounds like one of those advertising ploys.

What! like the Fairtrade, Soil Association, Organic, and all other designated certifications are? as it’s simply just that.

Yes. Low Fat, GMO free, High this, low that, reduced salt.
Most utterly irrelevant. If it has to have a special label it is most often trying to hide something.

So Fairtrade, Soil Association, Organic, GMO free, Bio etc, are meaningless irrelevancies?

Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:. as is Appellation D'origine Contrôlée, an evident monopolising and marketing ploy.

Branding like Appellation D'origine Contrôlée, has been a way to protect from fakery. Regional wine makers associate to protect a standard of quality. SO not directly comparable. I means that a wine from Chile cannot be sold as a wine from the Loire valley or Burgundy for example.

Branding like Fairtrade, Soil Association, Organic, GMO free, Bio etc, helps the consumer make more informed choices, when shopping for fresh/natural/unprocessed produce.

Sculptor wrote:Dolphin Friendly Tuna is for example is just a badge you can buy to help sell your tins of tuna, but has no meaning whatever, since there is no scrutiny.

One would hope that produce proclaiming to be ethically-sourced and dolphin-friendly/cruelty-free, would be ethically-sourced, dolphin-friendly, and cruelty-free.

Unscrupulousness and disingenuousness in the food industry is criminal and immoral, and lives have been lost because of it and the natural environment, impaired.
.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:51 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:What! like the Fairtrade, Soil Association, Organic, and all other designated certifications are? as it’s simply just that.

Yes. Low Fat, GMO free, High this, low that, reduced salt.
Most utterly irrelevant. If it has to have a special label it is most often trying to hide something.

So Fairtrade, Soil Association, Organic, GMO free, Bio etc, are meaningless irrelevancies?

Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:. as is Appellation D'origine Contrôlée, an evident monopolising and marketing ploy.

Branding like Appellation D'origine Contrôlée, has been a way to protect from fakery. Regional wine makers associate to protect a standard of quality. SO not directly comparable. I means that a wine from Chile cannot be sold as a wine from the Loire valley or Burgundy for example.

Branding like Fairtrade, Soil Association, Organic, GMO free, Bio etc, helps the consumer make more informed choices, when shopping for fresh/natural/unprocessed produce.

I am afraid to say, by and large, yes. Producers have to pay to have the label. Scrutiny costs money, so adherence to the standards are low.
When I had a smallholding I knew people that joined the Organic Soil Association. There rules were that you had to keep your soil chemical free for 3 months to join. There after you got the badge. No one ever came to inspect, since a visit would involve paying someone to come out the the farm, and take soils samples. But there is no way that you can distinguish between NPK in the soil from natural or artificial sources so basically it was all done on the nod.
Fairtrade has been involved is some scandal and is a means by which the corporate interests can ring the market.

Sculptor wrote:Dolphin Friendly Tuna is for example is just a badge you can buy to help sell your tins of tuna, but has no meaning whatever, since there is no scrutiny.

One would hope that produce proclaiming to be ethically-sourced and dolphin-friendly/cruelty-free, would be ethically-sourced, dolphin-friendly, and cruelty-free.

Unscrupulousness and disingenuousness in the food industry is criminal and immoral, and lives have been lost because of it and the natural environment, impaired.
.


There is a Neflix documentary about the Oceans, Seaspiracy. Which takes a look at Tuna line fishing. It's quite disappointing.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:05 pm

As for all that food labelling.
I think Michael Pollan has the right idea. He calls processed food "food like substances", and remarks that if it have a health label then it is probably better to avoid it completely.

A cabbage, lettuce, beef steak, broccoli, or an apple does not come with a "free from..", or "low..." this or that label.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby Sculptor » Tue May 03, 2022 7:30 pm

As an example this product is marked: "Gluten free; protein kick"

But the list of ingredients do not make it a healthy option:

Pork, Iodised Salt (Salt, Potassium Iodate), Dextrose, Nices, Pork Fat, Flavour Enhancer (Monosodium Glutamate, Disodium Inosinate, Disodium Guanylate), Preservative (Sodium Mtite), Beechwood Smoke, Made with 146g Pork and Pork Fat per 100g finished product, as some moisture is lost during curing and drying.
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Sun May 08, 2022 4:13 pm

Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
So Fairtrade, Soil Association, Organic, GMO free, Bio etc, are meaningless irrelevancies?

. as is Appellation D'origine Contrôlée, an evident monopolising and marketing ploy.

Branding like Fairtrade, Soil Association, Organic, GMO free, Bio etc, helps the consumer make more informed choices, when shopping for fresh/natural/unprocessed produce.

I am afraid to say, by and large, yes. Producers have to pay to have the label. Scrutiny costs money, so adherence to the standards are low.
When I had a smallholding I knew people that joined the Organic Soil Association. There rules were that you had to keep your soil chemical free for 3 months to join. There after you got the badge. No one ever came to inspect, since a visit would involve paying someone to come out the the farm, and take soils samples. But there is no way that you can distinguish between NPK in the soil from natural or artificial sources so basically it was all done on the nod.
Fairtrade has been involved is some scandal and is a means by which the corporate interests can ring the market.

Hmmm, I wasn’t aware of that.

A bi-yearly test should be a prerequisite, to maintain the designated-badge status.. surely food and drink producers can afford that!

Sculptor wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
Sculptor wrote:Dolphin Friendly Tuna is for example is just a badge you can buy to help sell your tins of tuna, but has no meaning whatever, since there is no scrutiny.

One would hope that produce proclaiming to be ethically-sourced and dolphin-friendly/cruelty-free, would be ethically-sourced, dolphin-friendly, and cruelty-free.

Unscrupulousness and disingenuousness in the food industry is criminal and immoral, and lives have been lost because of it and the natural environment, impaired.

There is a Neflix documentary about the Oceans, Seaspiracy. Which takes a look at Tuna line fishing. It's quite disappointing.

..the documentary or the revelation/s?

Nobody I know eats tinned-tuna anymore.. haven’t for decades, nor processed food, gluten, or unhealthy takeaways. Everybody’s had enough of being bloated and sick, and the only thing that that would help sustain is the pharmaceutical and health-care industry/profits.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
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Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Sun May 08, 2022 4:36 pm

Sculptor wrote:As for all that food labelling.
I think Michael Pollan has the right idea. He calls processed food "food like substances", and remarks that if it have a health label then it is probably better to avoid it completely.

I call it 'Frankenstein food'.. because there’s nothing natural or healthy about it. :lol:

A cabbage, lettuce, beef steak, broccoli, or an apple does not come with a "free from..", or "low..." this or that label.

Fresh fruit veg and meat don’t need any labels.. which should be the standard basis of One’s intake anyway, and anything else is a luxury and to be ingested at One’s peril.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
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Posts: 25041
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Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: Sustainability, le terme du jour..

Postby MagsJ » Sun May 08, 2022 4:43 pm

Sculptor wrote:As an example this product is marked: "Gluten free; protein kick"

But the list of ingredients do not make it a healthy option:

Pork, Iodised Salt (Salt, Potassium Iodate), Dextrose, Nices, Pork Fat, Flavour Enhancer (Monosodium Glutamate, Disodium Inosinate, Disodium Guanylate), Preservative (Sodium Mtite), Beechwood Smoke, Made with 146g Pork and Pork Fat per 100g finished product, as some moisture is lost during curing and drying.

Gluten (or dairy) free, doesn’t necessarily mean additive free.. and it usually doesn’t.

In my having lost the ill-will to eat processed produce, I’m helping sustaining the planet.. one meal at a time. :lol:
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 25041
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

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