Champagne Socialism

For discussions of culture, politics, economics, sociology, law, business and any other topic that falls under the social science remit.

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby encode_decode » Sat May 08, 2021 2:47 am

This is my favorite thread in SGE right now.

Loving the different angles being explored.

Thanks all for the good reads.

Thanks, G for starting this one up.

:D
I will build a nerdlike structure in 2021
I only meant that the cat knows - or discovers - that we can toss it out a window at any time = "authority". Dogs accept that notion more quickly - not as willing to test it. O:) - obsrvr524
User avatar
encode_decode
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1711
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: Nebula

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat May 08, 2021 3:03 am

Gloominary wrote:Capitalism is becoming increasing crony.
The oligopoly, the ones most responsible for its corruption, are going to try and incrementally replace it with what I'm terming corporate Marxism or leftwing fascism, which'll appear good to the naïve.
All mainstream academia, media and politics are beholden to the oligopoly.
We oughta turn our backs on the establishment, but who do we turn to?

The most powerful and bold way of resisting is simply Thought. This is the true resistance, the actual power that shapes the aeon.
Even the great moguls as well as the deep state must obey Thought.

Thought mobilizes most men, as Marx mobilized them so does sounder thought - and it is the challenge of philosophy, its royal right, as it alone has the might to take it on, to produce an inevitable fortune for mankind as a whole. The founding fathers of the US have produced the foundation for this fortune, their intellect produced the power to sustain a political revolution that overturned and overtook the entire human world. Thought is required again, and it is present, clear and present. Philosophy is very much alive now.

A cool term I heard is "the intellectual dark web".
It was in reference to Joe Rogan and others, but I think this place qualifies as well.

As our socioeconomies decline, extremists such as anarchists and rightwing communists will offer alternatives.
While constitutional democracy is very far from perfect, I think it's the most viable system we have to date.
It needs renovation, not demolition.

First destiny sought to destroy (in terms of) whatever was imperfect about it. Now, it must be reformulated so as to withstand whatever it has had to endure so far
and then it will be ready to govern the planet and whatever planets we seek to colonize after weve put this thing in gear.

My suggestion is support competent, grassroots/populist reformers, whether they're conservatives, libertarians or progressives.
People who don't take handouts from big business.
People who're ignored or hated by the establishment.

Everyone does what they can. Be aware of that. People are stupid and dangerous out of not having anything solid in their psyche. People go mad with rage because theyre overwhelmed by the injustice of their puny lives. Try to find solutions for people who are lost in righteous rage, some way for them to click into place with their own capacities. Make people see that, in a sea of unjust chaos, the simple decision to be straightforward and honorable to themselves is as powerful as the creation of a world.

Preferably 3rd parties, independents and people from working or lower middleclass backgrounds.

Nobility arent bad to have on your side either. Also military, police, politicians, diplomats, think tanks, - no limits, never imagine that Liberty doesnt like diamonds.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
Nietzsche's Heritage; The Philosophy of the Future - Some Music - The Magical Tree of Life
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 11555
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby Gloominary » Sat May 08, 2021 3:30 am

encode_decode wrote:This is my favorite thread in SGE right now.

Loving the different angles being explored.

Thanks all for the good reads.

Thanks, G for starting this one up.

:D

Welcome :)
User avatar
Gloominary
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3688
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am
Location: Canada

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby Gloominary » Sat May 08, 2021 2:15 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:I think only the pagans and scientists will get what they want. That is to say, Monotheism has revealed itself as a mere historical ploy, as far as religion is concerned a bizarre mistake, a religion that does nothing to produce divine results - a religion that only exists to bind the vast, weak majority of people to a tyrannical and usually irrational regime -- at this point monotheism is transmuted into popular socialism. Its essence is the psychology of Messianism - the feeling that, if everything is destroyed and plunged into chaos, a savior must appear.

I tend to view history cyclically, altho man, could be progressing in the log run, if he is, it's at least a gradual, upward spiral, not a straight line.
It's also possible we could make the world a much worse place to live through nuclear war or meddling with nature.

Marxism has a life span, Russia is no longer communist and FTMP neither is China, but republicanism has a life span too, and civilization as a whole.
The oldest surviving republic I'm aware of is a city state called San Marino in Italy, it's lasted nearly 2000 years, but most didn't last longer than Rome, which lasted 500 years.
If the American republic survives this century, at the very least it's going to have to struggle, plainly America's elite no longer believe in the constitution, they go to war without declaring it, and both the war on drugs and terror have undermined it in all sorts of ways.
For the elite, both critical theory and scientism come before free speech and freedom in general.
Anyone who challenges the status quo in any way, from DJT to Tulsi Gabbard must be a Russian asset, a traitor.

Civilization itself has already collapsed twice as far as we know, altho some revisionists believe civilization is far older than our history books suggest.
The 1st collapse known as the bronze age collapse and the 2nd the fall of Rome, Persia and many other civilizations in and around the same time.
We are in the age of republicanism right now, I believe this age will be followed by an age of dictatorships, then partial or total collapse.

If there is a way for man to live with himself and his environment sustainably, long term, I don't believe we thought of it yet.
If history and science are right man is young and civilization, when apes decided to live more like eusocial insects than apes, an infant, it may take us thousands, or even millions of years to perfect this thing, or maybe we never do, and this is as good as it gets.

If civilization collapses, theism, whether monotheism, pantheism, polytheism or something else, will likely make a comeback.
But is humanism not also a religion?
Have we not just exchanged faith in the Gods with faith in man and his scientific and social achievements?
User avatar
Gloominary
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3688
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am
Location: Canada

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby promethean75 » Sat May 08, 2021 9:23 pm

Omg no u guys monitheism's origins in philosophy and logic was the result of an examination of the logical problems involved in polytheistic systems. Monotheism makes more sense than polytheism even though neither are true. Aristotle, the mad Arabs, Aquinas, Anselm, Leibniz, Spinz (really only Spinz and Aristotle... they pwned everybody)... these guys made a quick history of paganism. In fact we got another irony; to still hold on to paganism even in this age as anything more than a hobby or arbitrary conversation piece, is to be even dumber than the people of 'the book'. And that should not be possible. I mean go to a baptist church in kentucky, watch those people, and then say 'i'm even dumber than them'. Duddint sound right, does it?
promethean75
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4737
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:10 pm

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby Gloominary » Sat May 08, 2021 11:39 pm

promethean75 wrote:Omg no u guys monitheism's origins in philosophy and logic was the result of an examination of the logical problems involved in polytheistic systems. Monotheism makes more sense than polytheism even though neither are true. Aristotle, the mad Arabs, Aquinas, Anselm, Leibniz, Spinz (really only Spinz and Aristotle... they pwned everybody)... these guys made a quick history of paganism. In fact we got another irony; to still hold on to paganism even in this age as anything more than a hobby or arbitrary conversation piece, is to be even dumber than the people of 'the book'. And that should not be possible. I mean go to a baptist church in kentucky, watch those people, and then say 'i'm even dumber than them'. Duddint sound right, does it?

Monotheism, polytheism, wat dat?
These're my saviors right here:

https://peru21.pe/resizer/N_p2qQetUFa694qwX2dJnrge58c=/980x0/smart/filters:format(jpeg):quality(75)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/elcomercio/RDIBB4ENGRFJREO3IMSWDAQ3X4.jpg

https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/lQin5njyD2aDcaDrZC42AQ--~B/aD02MTk7dz0xMTAwO3NtPTE7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en-US/att_cnn_articles_909/bee07d4cf2d0b6eef0ef7ab6cade5ca9

https://amredeemed.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/bill-gates-600x399.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/07/f9/01/07f901c99c90e102c27e3e68f7a82504--bill-gates-global-warming.jpg

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~GkAAOSw7UhduA0r/s-l300.png

https://vegnews.com/media/W1siZiIsIjE5MjM2L1ZlZ05ld3MuR3JldGFUaHVuYmVyZy5qcGciXSxbInAiLCJjb252ZXJ0IiwiLWNyb3AgMjA0OHgxMjEwKzArNzYgK3JlcGFnZSAtcmVzaXplIDgwMHg0NzNeIix7ImZvcm1hdCI6ImpwZyJ9XSxbInAiLCJvcHRpbWl6ZSJdXQ/VegNews.GretaThunberg.jpg?sha=b2e78841bf575ce6

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Schwab-Klaus-World-Reset.jpg

https://wikispooks.com/w/images/8/86/Klaus_Schwab2.png

https://uce0fa0b7be1b33c3140878bedfd.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/cd/0/inline/BOK9bbYSmYALhppw22daAvzwl9HMM_7Fop_rdE5ZoehMvIZWDNDk745qWAMgLQw1nUXKyomOuv6XR3lhi4i8aj2YVlTjhrYSu_C52AfIPBFf4SFWLbQc0dRDfjx--N6BQ6ctabIK84O-Q8mVmOTdKAb7/file#

https://norwaytoday.info/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/che-e1500543215405.png
User avatar
Gloominary
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3688
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am
Location: Canada

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun May 09, 2021 1:50 am

Promethean you ape, shut the fuck up man.
Really.
:lol:

Gloominary wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:I think only the pagans and scientists will get what they want. That is to say, Monotheism has revealed itself as a mere historical ploy, as far as religion is concerned a bizarre mistake, a religion that does nothing to produce divine results - a religion that only exists to bind the vast, weak majority of people to a tyrannical and usually irrational regime -- at this point monotheism is transmuted into popular socialism. Its essence is the psychology of Messianism - the feeling that, if everything is destroyed and plunged into chaos, a savior must appear.

I tend to view history cyclically, altho man, could be progressing in the log run, if he is, it's at least a gradual, upward spiral, not a straight line.
It's also possible we could make the world a much worse place to live through nuclear war or meddling with nature.

That point has a flip side too. Technology is in the process of making us hyperconscious. Us as in those that resist it, those who still have phones as their accessories rather than the other way around.
This is one facet of step in evolution that is unlike any that we might try to relate it to - this is new territory, mankind has never had so much power to mobilize. Trump was elected by using twitter mostly. That explosiveness can develop in many directions, especially as the absurdity of the spectacle increases.

Marxism has a life span, Russia is no longer communist and FTMP neither is China, but republicanism has a life span too, and civilization as a whole.
The oldest surviving republic I'm aware of is a city state called San Marino in Italy, it's lasted nearly 2000 years, but most didn't last longer than Rome, which lasted 500 years.
If the American republic survives this century, at the very least it's going to have to struggle, plainly America's elite no longer believe in the constitution, they go to war without declaring it, and both the war on drugs and terror have undermined it in all sorts of ways.
For the elite, both critical theory and scientism come before free speech and freedom in general.
Anyone who challenges the status quo in any way, from DJT to Tulsi Gabbard must be a Russian asset, a traitor.

Marx, slave morality, the idea that the self is but an instrument of historical forces, pure determinism overlooking the primordial fact of being standing against chaos, of self-agency, of the development of the future by actions rather than by the passively undergoing the fiction of universal necessities and plunging in goolike absence of spirit, meaning - the utter degradation of the proletariat, the ghetto of the molecular world.

Civilization itself has already collapsed twice as far as we know, altho some revisionists believe civilization is far older than our history books suggest.
The 1st collapse known as the bronze age collapse and the 2nd the fall of Rome, Persia and many other civilizations in and around the same time.
We are in the age of republicanism right now, I believe this age will be followed by an age of dictatorships, then partial or total collapse.

I don't think we are in the age of republicanism, we're in a technocratic mayhem with absolutely zero democratic or constitutional behavior in it. Less than zero if that would make sense.

If there is a way for man to live with himself and his environment sustainably, long term, I don't believe we thought of it yet.

A lot of people have come up with good ideas on this, but it's not on the program - it's not in the mindset of the powerful - it's not relevant.
Because we as People submit to this uprootedness that the religions of the day command, we aren't capable of 'Dasein' on the Earth. We're not worthy of it because we aren't pagans.

I mean I am a pagan obviously but we as People. Return to Earthy worship is the only way to teach mankind to be sensible, to have honor before himself, to not be marxist or otherwise fatalist, to not be a cretin.

If history and science are right man is young and civilization, when apes decided to live more like eusocial insects than apes, an infant, it may take us thousands, or even millions of years to perfect this thing, or maybe we never do, and this is as good as it gets.

If civilization collapses, theism, whether monotheism, pantheism, polytheism or something else, will likely make a comeback.
But is humanism not also a religion?
Have we not just exchanged faith in the Gods with faith in man and his scientific and social achievements?

Im very far past that question. Ive exhausted humanism in 2011. It was either die or let it go for me then.
Paganism is simply the recognition of reality. We are here, on this planet, with all these gigantic beings around us most of which we can certainly not perceive, of course, with our very specific machinery, but most of which can influence us.

Its a bravery that the self-inwardness of what ill euphemistically call monotheism has bred out of our behavior.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
Nietzsche's Heritage; The Philosophy of the Future - Some Music - The Magical Tree of Life
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 11555
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun May 09, 2021 2:00 am

Lacan he has this term The Real, which refers to that which cant be directly experience because it, basically, too real -
too undivided and too violent essentially, but also too lacking in whatever it is that makes us human, all too human -
paganism represents the engagement of this Real.
Therefore, because it happens by necessity out of the language that the (human, all-too-)human world consists of, symbols are created, sigils, ritual actions - performances of being that stand between subjectivity and non-subjectivity, of which in the basic human and natural world, dance is in general an example.

Paganism is a dance with reality beyond the intensity that language can carry. Its of a higher voltage, and thats literal even. Ive often enough caused light sot go out in meditations, even whole rows of streetlight after Kabbalist pathworking, not to speak of whole buildings and once a whole neighborhood when fiddling with ///




edit -

sorry for this interruption -- this post itself is an escape from the language body of our paradigm, which is corroding and cracking -
it cant contain what is happening. Consciousness is mutating as is the material fabric of humanity. Politics had acquired a different meaning.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
Nietzsche's Heritage; The Philosophy of the Future - Some Music - The Magical Tree of Life
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 11555
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby promethean75 » Sun May 09, 2021 4:42 pm

"Promethean you ape, shut the fuck up man."

Typical conservative fascist cancel culture and censorship combined with a homocentric bias against apes.
promethean75
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4737
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:10 pm

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun May 09, 2021 9:35 pm

The lifespan of an organism, of an object, machine, world, or political (thought) system, depends on the structural integrity that they allow.

Republicanism sec must die die because the world is unified under technology - it's no longer possible to completely isolate the politics of a country.

Deep below the Republican structure of the US, the Netherlands and France (the three main modern republics) is a value set, based on the antichristian idea of individual determination, liberty. All three these republics are secular, of them the US is the most Christian qua population, but the founders were masons, meaning they were certainly not gospel-believers.

The value set that gives rise to a constitutional republic is the same set that wil give rise to a constitutional planetary alliance. Elements of republicanism will survive, elements of tyranny as well, as will elements of anarchism, but not revolutionarism - that logic will have been exhausted.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
Nietzsche's Heritage; The Philosophy of the Future - Some Music - The Magical Tree of Life
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 11555
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun May 09, 2021 11:01 pm

Communism has no pursuit of happiness outside of the pursuit of the destruction of Ownership. It has no other pursuit. Does it?


It has no value unto itself, no kingdom to rule once it has met its aims, there is no content to its quest, other than that it must go on until the end of history.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
Nietzsche's Heritage; The Philosophy of the Future - Some Music - The Magical Tree of Life
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 11555
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby Gloominary » Thu May 13, 2021 10:51 pm

FC made lots of thoughtful and interesting points.
As I've been using an onscreen keyboard for the last month it's difficult to respond to them all.
User avatar
Gloominary
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3688
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am
Location: Canada

Re: Champagne Socialism

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu May 13, 2021 11:02 pm

Fixed Cross: Communism has no pursuit of happiness outside of the pursuit of the destruction of Ownership. It has no other pursuit. Does it?

It has no value unto itself, no kingdom to rule once it has met its aims, there is no content to its quest, other than that it must go on until the end of history.

K: clearly someone who has never read any books on communism....

the point isn't to destroy ownership.. that is the means to the end which is
the ending of the oppression of the working class...if you remove ownership,
then you bring everyone up to the same level.. you don't have ownership,
those who own the means of production destroying people's lives just to make
a few bucks....that is one path.. but what is missed is the other path....

instead of destroying ownership, bring up the working class... raise incomes
to the point where they have enough money to actually survive.. not just working
with poverty level income, but real income...level out incomes to the point where
there isn't a class of hundreds of people making billions/trillions of dollars and
a class of hundred of millions just getting by on starvation levels....

the greatest problem in America right now is income inequality... and Marx
had one possible solution... I am suggesting another... level out incomes so
that no one is making thousands of time more money then another person....

basically if we don't solve this problem, I can guarantee real problems in
the near future of the poor and working class rising up and demanding changes...
and it won't be pretty.... fix it now or face a class war.....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9678
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Previous

Return to Society, Government, and Economics



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users