Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

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Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:52 pm

Your mission, should you choose not to f*** it up:

Using ANY list of virtues [giving source(s) if you know it/them]…

In order to give a good alternative to Aristotle’s advice to choose the lesser of two evils, or to veer toward the opposite vice in order to correct a vice…

List the virtues according to a hierarchy on a horizontal number line. For example, life at the top, honesty at the bottom - or just order them however YOU, your mom, your culture, some stats you found, some philosophical argument would *whatever*.

Then apply it to a conflict that shapes virtue or vice in individual(s) or group(s). Identify which virtues are in play for each possible resolution of the conflict. Based on choosing the greater virtue, what is the virtuous choice?

(To correct a vice, veer towards its opposing virtue. Gonna need a parallel number line for the vices.)

Winner gets a million virtue dollars.

Go.

[P.s. If you want someone to blame for this, don’t blame me. 100% Dr. Turner’s fault. Plus Norm Geisler (where I learned graded absolutism). Already mentioned Aristotle. You do the math.]
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
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Ichthus77
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Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:07 pm

Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
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Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Mar 11, 2022 8:41 pm

Anybody here yet?
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Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
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Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:50 am

Pair with 3 virtuous hungers: truth, goodness, beauty/life

What are the corresponding/? vicious hungers?
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
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Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby MagsJ » Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:44 am

Ichthus77 wrote:Pair with 3 virtuous hungers: truth, goodness, beauty/life

What are the corresponding/? vicious hungers?

The Socratic approach, to your former comment..!
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:03 am

Not exactly. You keep all three. Like a Venn. Transcultural parallels abound.
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Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:46 am

Also. - via Dr. Turner, via Aristotle. In a word: Shalom.
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Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
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Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby MagsJ » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:23 am

_
Need it/anything be decreed?

Shalom? I weren’t born to do niceties, but to just be nice.. how could we ever have got so lost and gotten it so wrong.

This is not me, and I am not that.. I know how to act, stat! lol.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
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Posts: 25080
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Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:59 am

I’ll have what s/he’s having :-D Jk.

Seriously, though. No, I do not believe in divine command theory. God IS the good. Sorry. Didn’t realize you meant Euthyphro.

God commands/loves in accordance with his character. He exists his essence (as Sartre would say).

Shalom. It’s not the absence of conflict. It’s the presence of wholeness.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:50 am

(That isn’t to say the virtues can’t be turned into rules/laws. It’s weird how virtue theories are represented as emphasizing character over conduct, whereas Aristotle does not. However… consider the “fruits of the Spirit”… against such things there is no law. The Golden Rule is descriptive of God, prescriptive for all others. Jesus did not come to abolish but fulfill…on the cross…we love because we are loved.)

(See also C.S. Lewis on the transcultural Tao at the end of Abolition of Man.)

(Final thought… I agree with MLK, Jr & Augustine … or was it Aquinas … that an unjust law is no law at all. So even a lawful order can by extension be unlawful. Obligated to disobey any law, rule, command, or order in violation of the Golden Rule.)
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
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Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:06 pm

“What is worthy of choice is good, and what is worthier of choice is a greater good.“

Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, Bk V ch 3
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:46 pm

Dialectic
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Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:50 pm

Reason. logos… inborn image of god.
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Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:52 pm

very rough (work in progress). next one is main one, but still very rough
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Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:53 pm

So, I turned Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics (Golden Mean) into a Graded Absolute Virtue scale. This is just the very rough first draft—it is not ordered from least to greatest. It shows that the virtuous person chooses to cultivate their inborn image of God (Logos), which is a mean between psychopathy (too much mind) and sociopathy (too much body). The Goldilocks Zone ;) is the perfect blend of both (dialectic). Once cemented in character, it is second nature. In a moral conflict you would choose the greater good between conflicting virtues, and you wouldn’t use Aristotle‘s golden mean to choose a lesser evil, or correct a vice by aiming towards its opposing vice - you would stay focused on virtue, and only use vice to know “where you are” and what to avoid. Some of this stuff is definitely influenced by Dr. Turner. First learned about graded absolutism from Norm Geisler, but it’s definitely in Aristotle.
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Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby MagsJ » Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:55 am

Ichthus77 wrote:I’ll have what s/he’s having :-D Jk.

Seriously, though. No, I do not believe in divine command theory. God IS the good. Sorry. Didn’t realize you meant Euthyphro.

I didn’t.. never heard of it, until now. My thoughts are my own not someone else’s, but obviously of a universal shared/shareable sentiment, to those that morally 'get it'.

God commands/loves in accordance with his character. He exists his essence (as Sartre would say).

God’s love.. https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=194739

Shalom. It’s not the absence of conflict. It’s the presence of wholeness.

Things need to be much more world-changing, for the better, than niceties will allow for.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 25080
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:33 am

Ichthus77 wrote:
I’ll have what s/he’s having :-D Jk.

Seriously, though. No, I do not believe in divine command theory. God IS the good. Sorry. Didn’t realize you meant Euthyphro.

I didn’t.. never heard of it, until now. My thoughts are my own not someone else’s, but obviously of a universal shared/shareable sentiment, to those that morally 'get it'.


The only reason I get anything is God let me learn the hard way. Still stuff I don’t get. For example… I just now realized or learned today what the word spite means. My husband had been saying it for 20 years and I never understood what he meant by it and I never thought to ask him what he meant because I had my own understanding and assumed that he shared it. Studying Aristotle has shown me it meant something completely different than what I had assumed. I’m not saying I would still be married today if I had known what it meant, but it did come as quite a shock. As to your previous question, yes there needs to be contractual agreements so we don’t step on each other’s toes & everyone knows what is expected of them. And I think we should expect more from our citizens than just being born into the same location. Don’t get me started - I have a lot of other ideas.

God commands/loves in accordance with his character. He exists his essence (as Sartre would say).

God’s love.. https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=194739


You remind me of someone(s) :’-( I have fallen in that way two times in my life. I keep hearing that if I do it again I’m toast and I go back to jail and all this other crap. I am a fool. All I can say is I’m sorry and all I can do is stay anchored beyond the veil.

Shalom. It’s not the absence of conflict. It’s the presence of wholeness.

Things need to be much more world-changing, for the better, than niceties will allow for.


CS Lewis was not a pacifist. Niether was Dietrich Bon Hoffer. (sp?) Sometimes you gotta turn over some tables and sweep out the temple. Sometimes it’s Armageddon. The biggest question is - have you prayed about it?
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
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Posts: 6160
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Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:41 pm

hm.
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Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:13 am

Second nature (virtue/vice/character) is one part imagination, one part reason/desire for the supersensible Good… or on a spectrum between those parts.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Project: Happy ILove(d)P: Graded Absolute Virtue!

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu May 19, 2022 6:33 pm

Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus

Excuse #2 why I’m not dating: I want to be able to say I haven’t shaved in a decade.

Excuse #1 “I wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

Excuse #3: I wouldn’t want to get too attached right before Mutually Assured Destruction.

Follow me for more excuses.
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6160
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles


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