## 1 Divided By 3

For discussing anything related to physics, biology, chemistry, mathematics, and their practical applications.

Moderator: Flannel Jesus

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:The argument has lost coherence at this point. "In base 10 it doesn't add up to 1 in both bases". That's what it sounds like the claim is now.

In both bases, 1.0 is the same, it is 1 WHOLE, or 100%

A .1 in base 9 means 1 of 9 pieces, or 11.111...% of the whole

.3 means 33.333...% of the whole

.8 means 88.888...% of the whole

There is no .9 in base 9 to represent 9 pieces. 1.0 was divided into 9 pieces

If 8 pieces in base 9 means .8 means 88.888...% then 9 pieces means 99.999...%

Hence it is not 100%, it is 99.999...% of 1.0 in base 9.
Last edited by Motor Daddy on Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philosopher

Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

This line of reasoning isn't going to cut it for anybody else. You can't just keep relying on the base 10 decimal representation of the value to prove something in base 9.

If you could, then you could do the reverse, and prove that because 1/4 is an infinite decimal in base 9, it must not add up to 1 in any base as well.

You agreed that all bases are equally valid earlier in the thread. If they are equally valid, and you do not have a biased reliance on base 10 for your points, then you have to apply the same logic to 1/4.

But you're not doing that.

Flannel Jesus

Posts: 6293
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:This line of reasoning isn't going to cut it for anybody else. You can't just keep relying on the base 10 decimal representation of the value to prove something in base 9.

If you could, then you could do the reverse, and prove that because 1/4 is an infinite decimal in base 9, it must not add up to 1 in any base as well.

You agreed that all bases are equally valid earlier in the thread. If they are equally valid, and you do not have a biased reliance on base 10 for your points, then you have to apply the same logic to 1/4.

But you're not doing that.

What is the math in base 9 for .3 times 3 ????
Last edited by Motor Daddy on Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philosopher

Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

In base 9, .3 * 3 is 1.

Flannel Jesus

Posts: 6293
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:In base 9, .3 * 3 is 1.

So you are saying 1 divided into 3 parts is how many percent for each piece?
Last edited by Motor Daddy on Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philosopher

Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:The argument has lost coherence at this point. "In base 10 it doesn't add up to 1 in both bases". That's what it sounds like the claim is now.

In both bases, 1.0 is the same, it is 1 WHOLE, or 100%

A .1 in base 9 means 1 of 9 pieces, or 11.111...% of the whole

.3 means 33.333...% of the whole

.8 means 88.888...% of the whole

There is no .9 in base 9 to represent 9 pieces. 1.0 was divided into 9 pieces

If 8 pieces in base 9 means .8 means 88.888...% then 9 pieces means 99.999...%

Hence it is not 100%, it is 99.999...% of 1.0 in base 9.

I’ve already told you this dude.

You’re not talking about counting any more.

Technically base 10 is 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9

No ten.

That’s called a fucking placeholder dude.

That’s what makes a base.

We currently use zero as our base placeholder.

You’re confusing so many things at this point.
Last edited by Ecmandu on Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend

Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

The word "percent" seems to be another way for you to bring base 10 back into into. The term "percent" itself is as ambiguous as the word "ten" when talking about other bases. Relying on base 10 representations like "percent" is literally the whole problem: you can only show the problem in base 10, and when you try to show the problem exists in other bases, you seem to only be able to do that by converting to base 10 first.

Flannel Jesus

Posts: 6293
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:The word "percent" seems to be another way for you to bring base 10 back into into. The term "percent" itself is as ambiguous as the word "ten" when talking about other languages. Relying on base 10 representations like "percent" is literally the whole problem: you can only show the problem in base 10, and when you try to show the problem exists in other bases, you seen to only be able to do that by converting to base 10 first.

So in your base 9 world there is no percentage? So 1 apple of 4 apples has no percentage?
Last edited by Motor Daddy on Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philosopher

Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:The word "percent" seems to be another way for you to bring base 10 back into into. The term "percent" itself is as ambiguous as the word "ten" when talking about other languages. Relying on base 10 representations like "percent" is literally the whole problem: you can only show the problem in base 10, and when you try to show the problem exists in other bases, you seen to only be able to do that by converting to base 10 first.

So in your base 9 world there is no percentage? So 1 apple of 4 apples has no percentage?

You keep forgetting my theorem. I’ve posted it twice in this thread.

I’ll tell you though. 3 in base nine is equally divisible.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend

Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

For a person raised in base 9, the symbol "100" refers to the quantity that you would call 81. So something like "3%" to such a person would mean, to you, the base 10 value of 3/81

You can't throw in the % symbol into this conversation without disambiguating it first.

Flannel Jesus

Posts: 6293
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

So to a person raised using base 9, 1/3 is 30%, where the concept of "percent" matches what you would think of as a ratio out of 81.

Flannel Jesus

Posts: 6293
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:For a person raised in base 9, the symbol "100" refers to the quantity that you would call 81. So something like "3%" to such a person would mean, to you, the base 10 value of 3/81

You can't throw in the % symbol into this conversation without disambiguating it first.

I already did the conversion for you.

In their base 9 world, .1 means 11.111...%
.2 means 22..222...%

.8 means 88.888...%

and 1.0 would make it 99.999...%

But we both know that 1.0 in base 9 is 100%, not 99.999...%

.3 in base 9 is 3 parts of 9 parts in base 10.

3/9 = .333...
Last edited by Motor Daddy on Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Philosopher

Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Fuck man,

Now you’re trolling.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend

Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

-
"Percent" refers to the count of $$100_{10}$$. Other bases do not have percentage as such.
You have been observed.
Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
It's just the same Satanism as always -
• separate the bottom from the top,
• the left from the right,
• the light from the dark, and
• blame each for the sins of the other
• - until they beg you to take charge.
• -- but "you" have been observed --

The prospect of death weighs naught upon the purpose of life - James S Saint - 2009
obsrvr524
Philosopher

Posts: 4238
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:So to a person raised using base 9, 1/3 is 30%, where the concept of "percent" matches what you would think of as a ratio out of 81.

No, a person raised in base 9 knows that .3 is the base 9 equivalent of the base 10 33.333...% of a whole.
Last edited by Motor Daddy on Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philosopher

Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Fuck.

Ok.

In different bases, different numbers are whole numbers. I’m using the word “whole number” differently than it’s defined. I mean: it terminates.

3 is a whole number in base 9.

It is not a whole number in base 10.

They are both considered rational numbers in both bases.

It’s an EVEN number.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend

Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:So to a person raised using base 9, 1/3 is 30%, where the concept of "percent" matches what you would think of as a ratio out of 81.

No, a person raised in base 9 knows that .3 is the base 9 equivalent of the base 10 33.333...% of a whole.

Why would a person raised using base 9 think of mathematical concepts using base 10? Why would they think of percents the same why you do? Why wouldn't you think of percents the same way they do?

Your position now has the same problem it had at the very start: you keep putting base 10 into a privileged position, and you're only doing that for one reason: it's the base you're used to using.

There is nothing privileged about base 10.

Flannel Jesus

Posts: 6293
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel hit the nail on the head, he wrote:

“ There is nothing privileged about base 10.”
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend

Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:
Flannel Jesus wrote:So to a person raised using base 9, 1/3 is 30%, where the concept of "percent" matches what you would think of as a ratio out of 81.

No, a person raised in base 9 knows that .3 is the base 9 equivalent of the base 10 33.333...% of a whole.

Why would a person raised using base 9 think of mathematical concepts using base 10? Why would they think of percents the same why you do? Why wouldn't you think of percents the same way they do?

Your position now has the same problem it had at the very start: you keep putting base 10 into a privileged position, and you're only doing that for one reason: it's the base you're used to using.

There is nothing privileged about base 10.

Why would a base 10 person claim that a base 9 person can evenly divide 1 by 3 and get .3???

YOU are the one that started talking about a base 9 person's world. I am converting the numbers for you to show you what they are equivalent to in their world.

Our base 10 world's 33.333...% is equivalent to their base 9 world's .3. They are both 33.333...% of a whole.
Last edited by Motor Daddy on Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philosopher

Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

There's a version of you in some world far away, where people's left hands has 4 fingers but their right hands have 5, and that version of you was raised using base 9.

And there's a version of me on that planet, arguing with you that base 8 is just as valid as base 9. And you're insisting to me, on this planet, that dividing into 4 is nonsensical, but dividing into 3 makes perfect sense, because it's just 0.3! And I'm telling you, no dude, dividing into 4 makes perfect sense in base 8, in base 8 it's 0.2.

But that version of you is using the base 9 version of percents and insisting that, no no no, it's impossible to split 1 into 4.

I wonder how the base 9 version of you would get along with the base 10 one. I know the base 9 version of me would find what I'm saying to be quite agreeable, but your base 9 alter ego would not be able to understand how you could keep in insisting that 1/4 is valid, when it's clearly an infinite decimal.

Flannel Jesus

Posts: 6293
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Ecmandu wrote:Flannel hit the nail on the head, he wrote:

“ There is nothing privileged about base 10.”

Strawman.

I never claimed base 10 to be privileged. He built that strawman so that he could attack it. It was never said to begin with!
Last edited by Motor Daddy on Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philosopher

Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:There's a version of you in some world far away, where people's left hands has 4 fingers but their right hands have 5, and that version of you was raised using base 9.

And there's a version of me on that planet, arguing with you that base 8 is just as valid as base 9. And you're insisting to me, on this planet, that dividing into 4 is nonsensical, but dividing into 3 makes perfect sense, because it's just 0.3! And I'm telling you, no dude, dividing into 4 makes perfect sense in base 8, in base 8 it's 0.2.

But that version of you is using the base 9 version of percents and insisting that, no no no, it's impossible to split 1 into 4.

I wonder how the base 9 version of you would get along with the base 10 one. I know the base 9 version of me would find what I'm saying to be quite agreeable, but your base 9 alter ego would not be able to understand how you could keep in insisting that 1/4 is valid, when it's clearly an infinite decimal.

In base 10:
1 finger is .1 of the total fingers
2 fingers is .2 of the total fingers
.
.
.
9 fingers is .9 of the total fingers
10 fingers is 1.0 of the total fingers.

There is not "10", there is .9, and 1 more finger makes 1.0
Last edited by Motor Daddy on Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philosopher

Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:32 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Motor Daddy wrote:In base 10, you are so used to calling 13.0 the number "Thirteen" that it never dawns on you that it is 1 Ten and 3 Ones. We call that "Thirteen." But there is no number "Thirteen", the numbers are 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9.

"13", "thirteen" and "one times ten and three times one" are equivalent expressions that represent one and the same NUMBER. Yes, as strange as it may sound to you, 13 is a number. An unlucky number but still a number.

And it seems like you're confusing DIGITS and NUMBERS. 13 is not a digit. 9 is but there is no digit 9 in base 9. Still, there IS number $$9_{10}$$ in base 9. It's $$10_9$$.
Magnus Anderson
ILP Legend

Posts: 6117
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:26 pm

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Flannel Jesus wrote:Why would a person raised using base 9 think of mathematical concepts using base 10? Why would they think of percents the same why you do? Why wouldn't you think of percents the same way they do?

It isn't that they can't but that they don't.

The word and idea of "percent" happens (for whatever reason) to specifically refer to base 10 - "1/100" - one out of one hundred base 10 - nothing else.

Teach base 8 to a few 100 million people on another planet and they can have their own language where "percent" means 1 out of 80. In the mean time ---
You have been observed.
Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
It's just the same Satanism as always -
• separate the bottom from the top,
• the left from the right,
• the light from the dark, and
• blame each for the sins of the other
• - until they beg you to take charge.
• -- but "you" have been observed --

The prospect of death weighs naught upon the purpose of life - James S Saint - 2009
obsrvr524
Philosopher

Posts: 4238
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

### Re: 1 Divided By 3

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Motor Daddy wrote:In base 10, you are so used to calling 13.0 the number "Thirteen" that it never dawns on you that it is 1 Ten and 3 Ones. We call that "Thirteen." But there is no number "Thirteen", the numbers are 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9.

"13", "thirteen" and "one times ten and three times one" are equivalent expressions that represent one and the same NUMBER. Yes, as strange as it may sound to you, 13 is a number. An unlucky number but still a number.

Wrong. What you are writing and saying when you write 13 is 1 in the Tens decimal place, and 3 in the Ones decimal place. There is no "times" or multiplication, there is the number 3 in the Ones decimal position.

It's not 3 times 1 added to 1 times 10. It is a 1 in the Tens, and a 3 in the Ones.

There is no such animal as the number "Thirteen." That is a word to describe what I just described, the decimal 013.0
Last edited by Motor Daddy on Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philosopher

Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:32 pm

PreviousNext