What is quantum mechanics?

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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:31 pm

In other words, Eintein didn't even see the observer as an orientation point. Not an orientation point for the system, anyway, only for the reader, only a kind of marker on a map, but the map is there anyway.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:02 pm

origami wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote: E's inability to comprehend the cruelty of mankind, as expressed in his empathic correspondence with Freud.


Einstein was less naive than he sometimes let on.

But fine, we'll let you have this.


Fixed Cross wrote:The difference with Einsteins awareness is in his incapacity to estimate the truth of QM; namely, that the individual, the unit, the quantum, is a power, rather than merely an orientation point.

The fact that orientation-point-being actually requires power.


This is too vague and abstract. I will try to answer to some things I perceive you to be saying, but we could both do with you being more careful with your articulation of thoughts. For instance, the individual, the quantum, the unit, all things that mean different different things in every viewpoint so far mentioned, including quantum mechanics.

I will take you to be referring to the observer for the moment.

I mean that observation is a subset of agency.

The observer has no power. This is the entire finding of quantic analysis and what drives people crazy about it. The observer is immersed in a system the details of which he is unable to affect, because he himself is part of that system. Everything in the system is relative to everything else, as in Einstein, but this time including the observer. so nothing exists outside of the system that affects the system, such as magic or Einstein's implicit constant.

Yes, but a powerless observer is a fiction and a very futile one at that.

Fixed Cross wrote:but force no longer suffices at this level of demonstration;


Here, you seem to be agreeing. Force, power, whatever, is not even vaguely required for a quntum, nor for a unit, nor for an observer. Only differenciability is required.

No, force is the only way by which a thing can be counted. Observed. (Let alone observe. A great deal of contained force is required to observe, to reference )

This is the root of the problem, what Einstein did not understand, and a tremendous, a gigantic naiveté. Almost seems deliberate, a tease to non-mathematicians. "were just doing this, pretending like existence doesnt exist, and gain some degree of traction on it thereby"
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:09 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:I mean that observation is a subset of agency.


It really is not. There is no mediacy between observation and the system.

Fixed Cross wrote:Yes, but a powerless observer is a fiction and a very futile one at that.


It doesn't matter if whatever can be said to be an observer in a system in othr circumstances can be said to have power or not. For the effects of the system, power is not required. It is a filtering criteria that essencially filters nothing. Like saying that an observer that never saw a car is a fiction and a futile one at heart.

Fixed Cross wrote:but force no longer suffices at this level of demonstration;


Fixed Cross wrote:No, force is the only way by which a thing can be counted. Observed. (Let alone observe. A great deal of contained force is required to observe, to reference )


Before we proceed, I would like you to account for saying two different contradictory things on the subject.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:28 pm

Ok I did get carried away with the two threads.
Keep them separate, ok that.

Not anymore used to this forum-buzz.



....Subtlest of errors, like RM, and Relativity, which both do not count with the quantum as a quantum (an amount, thus something of something) to not understands recognize this.

Because the problem of calculating the actual truth increases literally infinitely when you do calculate with the actuality of it. Hence why Nietzsche is dynamite and Einstein is a violinist.

Like, why does a quantum exist as that particular unit? "Magic", actuality, falling into place, some inscrutable capacity dictated by some measure; like a prime is actually.

Magic is always the unexpected reality of something, the unaccountable reality. Einstein, to put it cynically, takes the magic for granted and capitalized on it with a grand economy. Bless his soul. Of course he recognized the magic-ness of it all - but not the actual procedure of it. The dice-playing. I cant believe he thought that god doesnt play dice. God is a game, or decently understood as such
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:30 pm

origami wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:but force no longer suffices at this level of demonstration;


Fixed Cross wrote:No, force is the only way by which a thing can be counted. Observed. (Let alone observe. A great deal of contained force is required to observe, to reference )


Before we proceed, I would like you to account for saying two different contradictory things on the subject.



Like I said, I need you to clear this up first.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:39 pm

but force no longer suffices at this level of demonstration;

Where did I say that? I cant recall the context.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:42 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote: - the degree of inexplicity.


Which itself is made explicit. By calling it quantum.

The only difference between 'quantum' and 'thing' is the implication of quantity. The only property of a quantum is that it holds a value.

A value in terms of force, yes.
There is what is explicit;
but force no longer suffices at this level of demonstration;
What is needed on top now is factors of behavior and circumstance that do not follow from the simple notion of force.

The simple notion of force no longer cuts it. That is the conclusion that none but philosophers have drawn.

(Will to power is not simply 'will' or 'power' nor is it simply 'will' to 'power' - it breaks down into actual value. Not quantitative value.)

Ah here.

Ok what I meant is that force is required for, but not sufficient to behavior.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:53 pm

So what is needed for a full calculation of any situation is a knowledge of force and its context. Which is impossible, except in a closed system, and then only theoretically possible if you can measure without opening the system, but ok -

Context might be framed as 'form';
ultimately this is endless, this form, as to all quanta the context is ultimately, as shown in the post you quoted, indefinitely extended, at least when one is tasked with the positive and absolute (Aristotelean) identification of one quantum as another; a task which will thus not be accomplished.

This indefinite extension of context to any event (some 'measurement of a quantum', some demonstrated existence) - is also why things do not eternally recur, and why they are more powerful than anything which would be soft enough to, consequentially, end, so as to be able to return. Fractals express this hardness of existence vs the softy cyclical notions used by N at the point of his compromise.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:11 pm

The pragmatic value, including the possible technological value, of this discernment vs the simple law of equation that makes the apparatus run, depends entirely on the scope of things - when addressing situations with an aim to master them, on whether there is a strong discrepancy between the subtlety of the quantification system and the subtlety of the nature of the subject. So, in the case of programming a Commodore 64, the value is close to nil, in as far as the software is concerned, In the case of weather prediction, it is close to being completely necessary (value absolutely positive, "1"); in the case of a quantum processing, its value would be, at least, something to be considered, if not even instrumental to the power of a quantum processor per se, namely I think, actual thought, that is to say creation, working 'out of the box'.

Now there is so much information being processed simply by the mainframes that govern us that more than sufficient 'chaos' is present to allow for all kinds of "AI" to occur, but Im saying that in theory a quantum processor itself should be considered an open system, or I cant imagine how it would be stable without the consideration. A quantum processor should basically 'know its place', be in a way self-aware to even regulate its contents at all. And what is self-awareness in the basic sense? Many ways to phrase it, but 'a sense of danger' might be the most relevant to a computer.

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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:08 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:
Which itself is made explicit. By calling it quantum.

The only difference between 'quantum' and 'thing' is the implication of quantity. The only property of a quantum is that it holds a value.

A value in terms of force, yes.
There is what is explicit;
but force no longer suffices at this level of demonstration;
What is needed on top now is factors of behavior and circumstance that do not follow from the simple notion of force.

The simple notion of force no longer cuts it. That is the conclusion that none but philosophers have drawn.

(Will to power is not simply 'will' or 'power' nor is it simply 'will' to 'power' - it breaks down into actual value. Not quantitative value.)

Ah here.

Ok what I meant is that force is required for, but not sufficient to behavior.


That is, of course, absurd. You mentioned nothing of behavior. What you were discussing was demonstrating that something is there. Force, you were correct, is not sufficient, because things can be demonstrated to be there that are not necessarily force or any othr thing.

Not force, not any given thing. Just a quantum, which means something you can count, which requires only differentiability.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:11 pm

The distinction, of course, and in terms of "magic," is invoking something outside the system, "force," which does not exist in the system and is, in quantic analysis, not required by the system.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:16 pm

Quantic analysis requires nothing outside the system to exist, no "magic," incuding the observer, which is not acting on or from outside the system, but is part of the system.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:27 pm

"something being there" translates into science as "something being established to be there" and that simply means that it has behavior,

That is basic scientific terminology.
My problem is I have to school people on so many levels at once to make my insight even theoretically accessible, and that only the highest levels are any fun for me.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:29 pm

Or, even more accurately, a quantum being established as manifesting as something to an observer.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:34 pm

Sure.

Thats resolved then.

Thank God.

I thought we were going to be stuck in that silliness.

Yes, force is required at all levels of science. Force isn't adequate as a notion. "Will to Power" is adequate as a notion when properly understood, but the term doesn't suffice to systematically inspire proper understanding.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:34 pm

So where's the force?
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:35 pm

Unless, of course, you mean a given quantum manifesting as force, and presumably a very specific manifestation as force.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:36 pm

Let the record show, lol, that your response was originally simply: "sure."
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:40 pm

Where is the force not?

Force is chaos, the abyss. Will to power is the order that arises from that. A monster. A world.

The only way the notion of a quantum can be calculated with, qua physics, is qua its representation of force, which is the notion from whence it came. That mathematicians omit and obscure this isn't any concern, they still abide by the reality of it; the fact that a quantum must be able to influence, 'exist', 'affect';

Affectance itself is required but not sufficient. Particularity is required as well.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:41 pm

origami wrote:Let the record show, lol, that your response was originally simply: "sure."


to your "even more accurately" post, yes.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:42 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Where is the force not?


Anywhere in a quantic analysis of a system where a quantum doesn't specifically manifest as force on some definable terms that become modified coherently with regards to othr parameters of the system.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:49 pm

No, it's there too.
If the system pertains to reality, that is to say, it is scientific. If it can be 'real space-shit'.

You dont believe that, I realize, and accept.
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:50 pm

Where? I don't see it.

Can you point it out? With the barest sense of scientific discipline?
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:51 pm

Again, let the record show, the original response was only: "no, it's there too."
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Re: What is quantum mechanics?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:58 pm

You are like Socrates. "Can you demonstrate that you are standing here, aside from by standing here?"

Can you demonstrate the notion doesn't underly these analyses?

No. Youve not taken in the origins of the science. You still take shortcuts.

That it may manifest means that it may manifest as force. That it may manifest as this or that force means that 'force' isn't sufficient.

All manifestation is a matter of force. If you are able to deny that, I won't follow you.
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