The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi...

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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Motor Daddy » Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:38 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:"1 divided by 3", like "1/3", is an expression that is used to refer to BOTH the operation and the result of that operation. And they are not only identical in meaning, they are also almost completely identical symbols. The only difference is that one signifies division with "divided by" and the other with "/".


"1 divided by 3" can not divide 12 eggs into 3 equal parts.
12 divided by 3 does that.

12 divided by 3 means each of the 3 parts are 4.0. To have one of the 3 parts means you have 4.0/12.0, which reduces to 1/3.

1 divided by 3 means each of the parts are .333... You have .333.../1.0. and that can't be reduced. Plus, there is a remaining part, the 4th part, which when added to the other 3 parts equals 1.0.
You can't have 1 of 3 equal parts when there are 4 parts.
If there are 4 parts consisting of 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, .001, then you can't have 1 of 3 equal parts, because there are 4 parts, 3 that are equal and 1 not like the others.

What you are claiming is that you have 1 of 3 equal parts of 1.0, when in fact there are 4 parts. 3 parts of .333... and 1 part that is the remainder.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:32 pm

-
In maths -
    "+" means "plus" or "add"
    "-" means "minus" or "subtract"
    "*" means "multiply" or "multiplied by"
    "/" means "divide" or "divided by"

There is no meaningful difference between "/" and "divided by"
    1/3 == 1 divided by 3
    1/3 == 1 of the 3 equal parts of 1
--- which base_10 cannot schmicko represent due to the nature of using 0-9 as its numerals.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Flannel Jesus » Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:34 pm

Ecmandu wrote:I’ve already given you the theorem for repeating rational decimals from base.

It’s the equal root from base, minus 1 from base.

What this means is that in base 10, you subtract 1.

That gives you nine.

The equal root of nine is 3.

That gives you 9,6,3.

Then you use base and subtract the equal root of 1 minus base, and it gives you seven.

3.6.9.7

In base 10, those are the only repeating decimals under base.

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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Magnus Anderson » Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:57 am

Motor Daddy wrote:1 divided by 3 means each of the parts are .333... You have .333.../1.0. and that can't be reduced. Plus, there is a remaining part, the 4th part, which when added to the other 3 parts equals 1.0.
You can't have 1 of 3 equal parts when there are 4 parts.

What you are claiming is that you have 1 of 3 equal parts of 1.0, when in fact there are 4 parts. 3 parts of .333... and 1 part that is the remainder.


Yes, when we try to find the result of "1/3" by using long division in base 10, that is precisely what happens. We all know that. You don't have to repeat it.

However, we also know that when we try to find the result of "1/3" by using long division in base 3, we get \(0.1_3\). How do you explain that? What makes base 10 system so special in your eyes?

If all you're saying is that 1/3 has no representation in base 10, then that's not much of a revelation. It's really just a banality that pretty much everyone agrees with. There is really no need for you to prove that to us. What you have to do, but you're not doing, is show to us how "The result of 1 divided by 3 has no representation in base 10" logically leads to "1 divided by 3 has no result". You never did that. And judging by the looks of it, you will never do it.

One the other hand, we have shown to you that many things in real life are one third of (or three times less) than something else. An example is a banana that is one third of a group of three bananas. In that case, a banana can be seen as the result of dividing one thing (a group of three bananas) into three equally sized sub-groups. Your response to this was to deny that that is an instance of dividing one by three.

"1 divided by 3" can not divide 12 eggs into 3 equal parts.


It can because "12 eggs" is at the same time "1 group of twelve eggs". It's not merely 12 things, it's also 1 thing.

12 divided by 3 does that.


Yes but not exclusively.

"12 inches" and "1 feet" are two different expressions of one and the same length. If you can cut "12 inches" into 3 equal lengths, you can also cut "1 feet" into 3 equal lengths.

Your problem is that you don't quite understand what decimal numbers are. In fact, you don't seem to be aware that a lot of them are no more than fractions (which you do not consider to be numbers.) "0.2" means no more than "The result of dividing 2 by 10". When someone asks you "What's the result of 1 divided by 5?" you have no problem answering with "0.2" even though that's merely a shorter way of saying "It's 2 divided by 10". But when you ask "What's 1 divided by 3?" and someone says "It's 1/3" you get all upset.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Motor Daddy » Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:50 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:"12 inches" and "1 feet" are two different expressions of one and the same length. If you can cut "12 inches" into 3 equal lengths, you can also cut "1 feet" into 3 equal lengths.


You can not divide 1 foot into 3 equal lengths, that is 1 divided by 3, which can't be done.

If you think you can divide 1 foot into 3 equal lengths then show me the math of 1 divided by 3 that results in 4 inches.
I do not want to see 12 divided by 3 in your math, because that is 12 inches divided by 3.
I want to see your math of 1 divided by 3 that results in 4 inches.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Motor Daddy » Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:08 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Your problem is that you don't quite understand what decimal numbers are. In fact, you don't seem to be aware that a lot of them are no more than fractions (which you do not consider to be numbers.) "0.2" means no more than "The result of dividing 2 by 10".


.1 is a "1" in the Tenths decimal position. It represents .1/1, which is 1 part of 10 equal parts of 1.0.
.025 is a "2" in the Hundredths decimal position, and a "5" in the Thousandths decimal position. It represents .025/1, which is 25 parts of 1,000 equal parts of 1.0.

1/3 can not be represented as a finite decimal because 1.0 can not be divided into 3 equal parts. PERIOD!

The closest fraction to 1 part of 3 equal parts of 1.0 is the fraction .333.../1. Notice how it is not 1/3, but .333.../1

The same goes for dividing 1.0 into 4 equal parts, each part is .25/1. It is NOT 1/4, that is 1 part of 4 equal parts. We are not talking about 1 part of 4, we are talking about .25 parts of 1.0 which is .25/1.0
They are both 25%, but so is 25/100. Having 25 parts of 100 parts is not the same as having .25 parts of 1.0 part. If you think it is then you are saying having 25 dollars of 100 dollars is the same as having .25 dollar of 1.0 dollar.
I don't know where you come from, but 25 dollars is way different than 1 quarter.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Flannel Jesus » Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:52 am

> 1/3 can not be represented as a finite decimal because 1.0 can not be divided into 3 equal parts. PERIOD!

You keep forgetting to scope your claims properly. 1/3 can not be represented as a finite decimal *in base 10*. The way you phrased it, you're choosing to open your claim up to other bases

You consistently choose to open up the conversation to other bases, and then get really mad at people when they bring up other bases. But it's always been your choice. You can choose the scope of your claim. If you want the scope of your claim to be just about base 10, make that choice.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:06 am

Don’t worry about it flannel.

MD is just exploring his mind.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Motor Daddy » Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:42 pm

Magnus,

Are you almost done working out how many Feet the length of a circumference of a perfect circle with a 1 Foot diameter is? How many Feet is the circumference of each of the 3 equal parts?

What we are talking about is basically a perfect circle 1 Foot diameter pizza, which you claim can be cut into 3 equal parts, right? The 3 parts must have the same length of circumference, which must add up to the whole circumference, right?

What is the whole circumference and what is each of the 3 parts circumference?

Bonus points if you tell me the area of the pizza, the area of each of the 3 equal parts, and the required side length of a square that has that same area as the whole pizza!
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:29 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:Magnus,

Are you almost done working out how many Feet the length of a circumference of a perfect circle with a 1 Foot diameter is? How many Feet is the circumference of each of the 3 equal parts?

What we are talking about is basically a perfect circle 1 Foot diameter pizza, which you claim can be cut into 3 equal parts, right? The 3 parts must have the same length of circumference, which must add up to the whole circumference, right?

What is the whole circumference and what is each of the 3 parts circumference?

Bonus points if you tell me the area of the pizza, the area of each of the 3 equal parts, and the required side length of a square that has that same area as the whole pizza!


Motor Daddy.

Make it interesting.

You seem to keep forgetting that a foot is 12 inches, which makes the circumference equally divisible.

Try 10 inches instead.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:47 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Motor Daddy wrote:Magnus,

Are you almost done working out how many Feet the length of a circumference of a perfect circle with a 1 Foot diameter is? How many Feet is the circumference of each of the 3 equal parts?

What we are talking about is basically a perfect circle 1 Foot diameter pizza, which you claim can be cut into 3 equal parts, right? The 3 parts must have the same length of circumference, which must add up to the whole circumference, right?

What is the whole circumference and what is each of the 3 parts circumference?

Bonus points if you tell me the area of the pizza, the area of each of the 3 equal parts, and the required side length of a square that has that same area as the whole pizza!


Motor Daddy.

Make it interesting.

You seem to keep forgetting that a foot is 12 inches, which makes the circumference equally divisible.

Try 10 inches instead.


Actually, I just realized I’m being mean to you by setting you up.

In ideal forms, the diameter or radius (whatever you want to use)... to make an actual shape (be it a circle or square) are both infinite.

In a realm with width, 1 is a tricky number to work with.

I’m curious where you want to go here before I discuss more.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Magnus Anderson » Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:35 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:You can not divide 1 foot into 3 equal lengths, that is 1 divided by 3, which can't be done.


"1 foot" and "12 inches" mean the same thing. If you can cut one, you can cut the other. It's like saying that Socrates is a philosopher but that he's not a man who loves wisdom. It's a contradiction.

If you think you can divide 1 foot into 3 equal lengths then show me the math of 1 divided by 3 that results in 4 inches.


And what exactly do you mean by "show me the math" if not "show me its decimal equivalent"? If that's what you mean then I can't show you that because it doesn't exist. But why is that necessary? Can you explain that to us? Why are decimal numbers so important?

.1 is a "1" in the Tenths decimal position. It represents .1/1, which is 1 part of 10 equal parts of 1.0.


So you agree that 0.1 is no more than 1/10 or one tenth? So why is that a number but 1/3 or one third isn't? Both are fractions. Earlier you said that fractions aren't numbers. Are fractions numbers or are they not? And why is that a valid answer to "What's 1 divided by 10?" but 1/3 is not a valid answer to "What's 1 divided by 3?" Can you explain that?

The same goes for dividing 1.0 into 4 equal parts, each part is .25/1. It is NOT 1/4, that is 1 part of 4 equal parts. We are not talking about 1 part of 4, we are talking about .25 parts of 1.0 which is .25/1.0


"1/4", "0.25", "0.25/1", "25%", "25/100" and "1 part of 4 equal parts" all mean the same exact thing. As far as what these symbols mean, there is no difference (the difference is merely in the symbols themselves.)

They are both 25%, but so is 25/100. Having 25 parts of 100 parts is not the same as having .25 parts of 1.0 part. If you think it is then you are saying having 25 dollars of 100 dollars is the same as having .25 dollar of 1.0 dollar.


"25 dollars of 100 dollars" is not the same as "0.25 dollars of 1 dollar". But 25/100 is indeed the same as 0.25/1.

In mathematics, when we say that "25 / 100 = 0.25 / 1" we are saying that the result of the operation on the left side of the equation is the same as the result of the operation on the right side of it. It does NOT mean that the two operations are one and the same operation. They are obviously different operations. But their RESULT is the same.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Flannel Jesus » Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:43 pm

> If you think you can divide 1 foot into 3 equal lengths then show me the math of 1 divided by 3 that results in 4 inches.

(1 foot / 3) * (12 inches / 1 foot) = 4 inches
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Motor Daddy » Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:45 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:
"1 foot" and "12 inches" mean the same thing. If you can cut one, you can cut the other.


No they do not mean the same thing. 1 of something and 12 of something are totally different quantities.
1.0 divided into 4 equal parts is .25.
12 divided into 4 equal parts is 3.

We are not talking about 12 divided by 4, we are talking about 1 divided by 4.
The math for 12 divided by 4 looks like this: 12 / 4 = 3
The math for 1 divided by 4 looks like this: 1 / 4 = .25

You see the difference?
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Motor Daddy » Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:53 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:And what exactly do you mean by "show me the math" if not "show me its decimal equivalent"?


For example, show me the math of dividing a 1 foot diameter perfect circle pizza into 3 equal parts, as I have asked you repeatedly.

You think you can divide a pizza into 3 equal parts, right? Then show me the math, which means show me how many feet the circumference is, and show me what the circumference is of each of the 3 "equal parts".

If you can't give me those numbers then you can't divide it into 3 equal parts mathematically.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:42 am

Motor Daddy wrote:show me the math of dividing a 1 foot diameter perfect circle pizza into 3 equal parts, as I have asked you repeatedly.

You think you can divide a pizza into 3 equal parts, right? Then show me the math, which means show me how many feet the circumference is, and show me what the circumference is of each of the 3 "equal parts".


circumference = \(\pi \) feet
circumference divided by 3 = \(\pi/3\)
Each equal part = \(\pi/3\) arc length

If you think that \(\pi\) is not maths or not a value or number -- Google it.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Motor Daddy » Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:58 am

obsrvr524 wrote:
Motor Daddy wrote:show me the math of dividing a 1 foot diameter perfect circle pizza into 3 equal parts, as I have asked you repeatedly.

You think you can divide a pizza into 3 equal parts, right? Then show me the math, which means show me how many feet the circumference is, and show me what the circumference is of each of the 3 "equal parts".


circumference = \(\pi \) feet
circumference divided by 3 = \(\pi/3\)
Each equal part = \(\pi/3\) arc length

If you think that \(\pi\) is not maths or not a value or number -- Google it.


If you can't tell me how many feet each of the 3 parts are, then you can not divide the pizza into 3 equal parts.

If you could do it you would be able to tell me exactly what each part measures. What you are claiming is that you can divide it into 3 equal parts, but you can't measure those parts. BS!
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:32 am

Motor Daddy.

Pi is propaganda.

Don’t worry about it.

See. There’s this weird thing about propaganda from thousands of years ago....

People actually believe it.

You are frustrated because you’re starting to wake up.

Your intuition tells you... “something is off”

That makes you smarter than most people in the world.

You’re still in your confusion state though.

It’s agitating.

Pi doesn’t exist.

It’s a running joke to the propaganda ministers that people believe stupid shit like this... they find it hilarious.

Think how funny this is to them for a second...

E=mc^2

How to you even add 1 to a cosmological constant, let alone square it?!?!

The controllers find this stuff really funny.

I’m just going to explain this very simply to you....

Existence is a torture chamber.

I’m here to fix it.

Don’t worry about it.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:21 am

Ecmandu wrote:Motor Daddy.

Pi is propaganda.

Don’t worry about it.

See. There’s this weird thing about propaganda from thousands of years ago....

People actually believe it.

You are frustrated because you’re starting to wake up.

Your intuition tells you... “something is off”

That makes you smarter than most people in the world.

You’re still in your confusion state though.

It’s agitating.

Pi doesn’t exist.

It’s a running joke to the propaganda ministers that people believe stupid shit like this... they find it hilarious.

Think how funny this is to them for a second...

E=mc^2

How to you even add 1 to a cosmological constant, let alone square it?!?!

The controllers find this stuff really funny.

I’m just going to explain this very simply to you....

Existence is a torture chamber.

I’m here to fix it.

Don’t worry about it.


Motor Daddy.

I want to wake you up some more.

Think of the square root of two.

How is it possible that it’s greater than 1?

The controllers find it absolutely hilarious that you believe all this shit.

I’m responsible for an infinite number of beings infinite heavens.

I even had to come here in person to do this.

I’m not god.

God doesn’t exist.

Any fucking idiot knows that if anyone is being hurt, god doesn’t exist.

I’m trying to think how to explain this to a human.

I’m back in my body now.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Flannel Jesus » Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:12 am

I'm still just amazed that this thread has lasted this long when op has already admitted that the very first post that started it all off is incorrect
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:54 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:And what exactly do you mean by "show me the math" if not "show me its decimal equivalent"?


For example, show me the math of dividing a 1 foot diameter perfect circle pizza into 3 equal parts, as I have asked you repeatedly.


I know that you ask questions repeatedly but you don't seem to get that you're doing so unnecessarily. I didn't ask you to repeat the question but to explain what it means; specifically, to explain what "show me the math" entails. Did you do so? You didn't. Will you do it? By the looks of it, you won't. But why? Why do you avoid explanations? Obviously, you don't know how to do it, but you don't want to make it apparent that you can't do it, so you try to hide it by repeating yourself. That doesn't hide it well, though.

What does "show me the math" mean? Are you asking me to show you the process of long division? If so, can I use any base? If not, why not? I can show it in base 3. I can't show it in base 10. You've been told this how many times? And yet, instead of moving the conversation forward, by say explaining why base 3 isn't allowed, or by proving that every number has a decimal representation, you prefer to do the cheap, super easy, but also super ineffective thing of repeating what everyone has heard and understood a million times by now. If this is your idea of dialectics then count me out.

The verdict is that you do not how to converse, and if this were my forum, your posting privileges would have been restricted by now (until you learn.)

If you can't give me those numbers then you can't divide it into 3 equal parts mathematically.


Feel free to prove that. You can't just assert it.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:17 pm

I've been extremely busy, and still am, so I didn't have the time to read the entire discussion between Motor Daddy and Flannel Jesus. I will do it eventually and I share my comments. Right now, I'd say that Flannel Jesus is doing a good job (he's much better at dialectics) and that Motor Daddy presumes a lot and has a tendency to dismiss a lot of things as being irrelevant diversions allowing no possibility that these things are in fact relevant (he never discusses those issues, for example, he just assumes he's opinion is right and moves on.)
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Motor Daddy » Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:35 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:I can show it in base 3.


Ok, show it in base 3. I want to know how many feet the whole circumference is, and how many feet each of the 10 (base 3 "10") equal circumferences are.

Don't forget, everything in your post is base 3, so do not pretend that there are 12 inches in 1 foot, because in base 3, "12" is this many inches "0 0 0 0 0" and that is not how many inches there are in 1 foot.

Also, there is no number "3" in base 3, so Pi is not 3.14159... in base 3.

You say you can show it in base 3, so let's see it!
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:29 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:

“ Don't forget, everything in your post is base 3,”

Ecmandu replies:

Do you realize how many bases there are in that quote including the comma?

More than ten.
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Re: The Impossibility Of The First 100 Decimal Places Of Pi.

Postby Flannel Jesus » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:33 pm

Is it 11?
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