Trump Claims Victory

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby promethean75 » Sat May 08, 2021 7:10 pm

Sure there are people with political power who draw from Marx's ideas and are identified with the left... but there is a lot of Marx which they don't observe, and in doing so they create their own ideological brand that isn't exclusively Marxist.

And there are instances when all of Marx is observed but additions to theory and practice are made. Leninism is an example; an upgraded and historically contingent attempt at pure Marxism in new conditions Marx had no experience of.

But really man, Democrats and fashion leftists (millennials and old yuppies) are the products of the kind of society that is run along the lines of something like, say, American capitalism/consumerism? This is to suggest that it couldn't be Marx, or a Marxism, that has made them such flakes, since they are made by the environments they are in (not the environments in the textbooks). You know that, right? I mean I dunno man some of the stuff u guys say sometimes.... I'm like 'htf did he get that?!'

In any event, Democrats, like the type I mentioned above, only draw from Marx, and indirectly at that. But all of it lacks a key feature of Marxism that breaks the deal; the working class's control of society is only 'democratically representational' (if at all), and nothing like the structure of government that would exist after the basic planks were established.

So despite socialized health care, free education and housing, and whatever else might be in the to-do list of a Democrat, he/she is still only a welfare capitalism crony.
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat May 08, 2021 7:14 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:A constitution is an agreement between otherwise independent entities to form an alliance - a civilization.

Marx is about dissolving all agreements and forming a society based on raw power - not civilization at all - merely animal greed.

His fantasy that after conquering the whole world all people eventually become lambs of peace and love is simple hate baiting lunacy.

Look at all of his followers - the party of Hate and Greed. In America - the Socialist/Democrat party.


K: I like your consistency... always wrong...

actually Marx held that documents like the constitution are documents that
allow the powerful, wealthy owners of the means of production to use these
documents to be weapons against the poor and working class.... the constitution
is a weapon to preserve the status quo for the ones who own society.....

the constitutional safeguards are really just means to hold the lower classes
in their place as workers/slaves of the owners of the means of production...

it is a truism of Marx, that society is always in a state of war, of the
powerful and wealthy, who are always a small minority, who wage war
against everyone else...to maintain and hold power... which is why they
hold that money is the prime mover of people and why? because they hold
the money... thus they hold the power...it is simply human nature to
subscribe the thing that one has as to being the most important aspect in life....

I am very smart, so I hold that intelligence is the most important thing around,
because It makes my intelligence more important.. as I have more of it then you do....

if you own property, then property becomes the most important thing because you
own property.....it is human nature to make the thing we hold most of, to be the most
important thing around....

and so the owners of society make money the most important thing,
because that is what they have....so they use the constitution as a means
to maintain and hold their wealth....it is a weapon...

you completely miss why Marx held what he held... why those views as oppose
to other views? because he saw/felt that the way to free the common person,
was to overthrow the existing order which is just a way to maintain power
for the owners of the means of production....

you have to start with why marx held these beliefs and then work your way to
the solutions he "discovered"....if the wealthy owners of society use wealth
to hold onto their power, then they also use property that way.....
why do you think property is so important to the owners of the means of
production? because they hold a shitload of it..... it is a means of holding
everyone else in their grip...remove the idea of private property and you remove
one of the weapons of the wealthy/powerful....

that is why the communist is so adamant against private property... it is seen
as a weapon being used against everyone else......that is why property laws
are much more held sacred then laws about capital punishment... property
is held to be of greater value then human lives....and why the cops
hold property violence as being of more important then the loss of human beings,
because it is a means of the wealthy/powerful to hold onto their wealth and power....
it is a weapon against the poor..

it is interesting that the right never seems to have a sense of context...
you make blanket statements that means nothing because they have no context....

to say, as you do, "look at all of his followers- the party of hate and greed. In America-
the socialist/democrat party" and yet this means nothing because it has no context....

where we sit and not as followers of Marx because I am not, but where we stand is
we want a voice, a say in our lives and the only way we are going to have that is
by eliminating the owners of the means of production... the wealthy and powerful who
use the police and the documents like the constitution to maintain and hold onto wealth,

to have an equal class of people who have equal say in society....that is the only way
I can ensure that I have a voice and that you have a voice in the society we live in is
by making society, our society to be fair and just (for justice is simply the
use of equality for all)

I don't want power... I want to ability to become who I am and have a say,
both say and ability to act, in our society... today, I am voiceless and powerless
to having a say in our society.... me and millions of other Americans lack a voice
in how we live our lives.....so to have my objective, which is to have a say
and voice in how my life is lived, I must then ensure how you can have a say/voice
in our society...... that is the only way this works....
if none of us have any say, then society no longer functions....
and we cannot allow just some to have a voice, it is another all or nothing
type of proposition....... either all of us are free or none of us is free...

that is the entire basis of thinking.. the only way I can get my voice heard is to
get your voice heard....as all of us can be heard... it is all of us, or none of us....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat May 08, 2021 9:24 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:actually Marx held that documents like the constitution are documents that
allow the powerful, wealthy owners of the means of production to use these
documents to be weapons against the poor and working class.... the constitution
is a weapon to preserve the status quo for the ones who own society.....

And that is exactly how Europe used them - as a facade and that is also why I like the US model - it actually does block authoritarian control. It isn't just a facade - or not until more recent socialist corruption. And now the socialists in the US are working to get rid of it entirely so that they can enslave the entire population without hindrance - "the South rises again" (the property owning slavers).

Peter Kropotkin wrote:the constitutional safeguards are really just means to hold the lower classes
in their place as workers/slaves of the owners of the means of production...

- Ignorance of the US Constitution.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:it is a truism of Marx, that society is always in a state of war, of the
powerful and wealthy, who are always a small minority, who wage war
against everyone else...to maintain and hold power... which is why they
hold that money is the prime mover of people and why? because they hold
the money... thus they hold the power...it is simply human nature to
subscribe the thing that one has as to being the most important aspect in life....

And Marx proposed nothing to change that except to take it to its extreme - absolute power over all humanity. Then he proposed that people would just magically change into worker bees that perform with no queen.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:I am very smart, so I hold that intelligence is the most important thing around,
because It makes my intelligence more important.. as I have more of it then you do....

You are a joke. You defend your bubble of belief out of weakness and cowardice. You lie.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:if you own property, then property becomes the most important thing because you own property.....it is human nature to make the thing we hold most of, to be the most
important thing around....

- Simple-minded foolish theorizing to support your insecurities.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:you completely miss why Marx held what he held...

No you just never could see how ignorant and malevolent he was. To the childlike mind, the Pied Pipper is a wonderful, unappreciated hero.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat May 08, 2021 9:34 pm

promethean75 wrote:Sure there are people with political power who draw from Marx's ideas and are identified with the left... but there is a lot of Marx which they don't observe, and in doing so they create their own ideological brand that isn't exclusively Marxist.

And there are instances when all of Marx is observed but additions to theory and practice are made. Leninism is an example; an upgraded and historically contingent attempt at pure Marxism in new conditions Marx had no experience of.

But really man, Democrats and fashion leftists (millennials and old yuppies) are the products of the kind of society that is run along the lines of something like, say, American capitalism/consumerism? This is to suggest that it couldn't be Marx, or a Marxism, that has made them such flakes, since they are made by the environments they are in (not the environments in the textbooks). You know that, right? I mean I dunno man some of the stuff u guys say sometimes.... I'm like 'htf did he get that?!'

In any event, Democrats, like the type I mentioned above, only draw from Marx, and indirectly at that. But all of it lacks a key feature of Marxism that breaks the deal; the working class's control of society is only 'democratically representational' (if at all), and nothing like the structure of government that would exist after the basic planks were established.

So despite socialized health care, free education and housing, and whatever else might be in the to-do list of a Democrat, he/she is still only a welfare capitalism crony.

You seem to be just drawing your line in the swamp a little more to the right than accused. It is still just as much the swamp.

There are only two ways out of a divided swamp -
  • Form a single party government swamp king (like the CCP did and socialists want)
  • Form a No party government - the US Constitution (the socialists fear and hate)
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Posts: 2932
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby Sculptor » Sat May 08, 2021 10:43 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:There are only two ways out of a divided swamp -
  • Form a single party government swamp king (like the CCP did and socialists want)
  • Form a No party government - the US Constitution (the socialists fear and hate)


Socialism does not mandate a single party state.
The US constitution mandated an oligarchy, not a no party government.

You are a total moron who should stop watching entertainment programs on Fox that pretend to be News, you brain is a cesspit.
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun May 09, 2021 12:58 am

Peter Kropotkin:: actually Marx held that documents like the constitution are documents that
allow the powerful, wealthy owners of the means of production to use these
documents to be weapons against the poor and working class.... the constitution
is a weapon to preserve the status quo for the ones who own society.....


Ob: And that is exactly how Europe used them - as a facade and that is also why I like the US model - it actually does block authoritarian control. It isn't just a facade - or not until more recent socialist corruption. And now the socialists in the US are working to get rid of it entirely so that they can enslave the entire population without hindrance - "the South rises again" (the property owning slavers).

Peter Kropotkin: the constitutional safeguards are really just means to hold the lower classes
in their place as workers/slaves of the owners of the means of production...[/quote]

Ob: - Ignorance of the US Constitution.

Peter Kropotkin: it is a truism of Marx, that society is always in a state of war, of the
powerful and wealthy, who are always a small minority, who wage war
against everyone else...to maintain and hold power... which is why they
hold that money is the prime mover of people and why? because they hold
the money... thus they hold the power...it is simply human nature to
subscribe the thing that one has as to being the most important aspect in life....

Ob: And Marx proposed nothing to change that except to take it to its extreme - absolute power over all humanity. Then he proposed that people would just magically change into worker bees that perform with no queen.

K: this is factually wrong... Marx propose dozens of changes....
for example among the changes he propose were the 8 hour day, the 5 day work week,
vacation pay, sick leave, overtime pay, in fact, all the stuff we take for granted today....
recall Marx was a journalist most of his career.. and in that capacity, he made a lot of
proposals.. especially during his time working for the New York Tribune....

Peter Kropotkin: I am very smart, so I hold that intelligence is the most important thing around,
because It makes my intelligence more important.. as I have more of it then you do....

Ob: You are a joke. You defend your bubble of belief out of weakness and cowardice. You lie.

Peter Kropotkin: if you own property, then property becomes the most important thing because you own property.....it is human nature to make the thing we hold most of, to be the most
important thing around....[/quote]

Ob: - Simple-minded foolish theorizing to support your insecurities.

Peter Kropotkin: you completely miss why Marx held what he held...

OB: No you just never could see how ignorant and malevolent he was. To the childlike mind, the Pied Pipper is a wonderful, unappreciated hero.[/quote]

K: your side of this post could be a philosophy professor best example of an ad hominem attack:

[ˌad ˈhämənəm]
ADVERB
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
"vicious ad hominem attacks"
relating to or associated with a particular person.
"the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"

I would hope you would aim a little higher but I guess that would be asking too much...

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun May 09, 2021 5:59 am

Sculptor wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:There are only two ways out of a divided swamp -
  • Form a single party government swamp king (like the CCP did and socialists want)
  • Form a No party government - the US Constitution (the socialists fear and hate)


Socialism does not mandate a single party state.

Socialism IS the one party of a state - all else is a facade.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
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Posts: 2932
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby Ecmandu » Sun May 09, 2021 7:52 am

obsrvr524 wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:There are only two ways out of a divided swamp -
  • Form a single party government swamp king (like the CCP did and socialists want)
  • Form a No party government - the US Constitution (the socialists fear and hate)


Socialism does not mandate a single party state.

Socialism IS the one party of a state - all else is a facade.


To be perfectly honest with you. I thought of writing a decent response to this. But you’ve lost all credibility with me when I stated that public schools and roads and social security are all socialist and you laughed at me and called me ignorant.

Dude, keep doing your stupid shit. I’m done with you.

Everytime you type a sentence, I might just repeat the same shit so that people understand on this board that logic and definitions exist - that’s it though:

The US at its greatest was always socialistic. This is not up for debate. It’s a matter of fact.
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby Sculptor » Sun May 09, 2021 8:32 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:There are only two ways out of a divided swamp -
  • Form a single party government swamp king (like the CCP did and socialists want)
  • Form a No party government - the US Constitution (the socialists fear and hate)


Socialism does not mandate a single party state.

Socialism IS the one party of a state - all else is a facade.


The army, navy , airforce, fire service, police, schools, life guard, NASA space program
ALL SOCIALISM
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby promethean75 » Sun May 09, 2021 8:38 pm

Well a little bit of socialism is always good for the capitalist parasites because through it, those resources that keep them alive (national military, postal service, roadways, etc.) can be paid for by the working class... so they get to exploit them twice. First through a wage less than the value of the work, and second through a public tax.
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun May 09, 2021 9:38 pm

Sculptor wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:Socialism IS the one party of a state - all else is a facade.


The army, navy , airforce, fire service, police, schools, life guard, NASA space program
ALL SOCIALISM

False.

Each of those is a social program or a federal program (if you want to include the military and NASA as social programs).

The leadership of the nation is (supposed to be) a constitution - anti-socialist (especially considering the Bill of Rights).

Socialism has no Bill of Rights that actually means anything. Socialism has no irrevocable promise it is held to. Socialism is "We on top are ALL POWERFUL - Obey us or suffer the consequences." - the Nazis, Soviets, CCP, and now the O'Bidens.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
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Posts: 2932
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby Ecmandu » Sun May 09, 2021 11:12 pm

Obsrvr,

This is so retarded what you just posted. The constitution was designed to be ratified. That was part of what makes this country decent.

Let’s look at what socialism is on the broad spectrum in the United States ... as mentioned above, things like early education, fire departments, military, police, roads, social security, Medicare, Medicaid, pensions, protected ecosystems, public parks, but even more critical to what you present... the biggest socialism in the United States is corporate bail outs.

The United States at its best and worst is a socialist country.
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby Sculptor » Sun May 09, 2021 11:48 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:Socialism IS the one party of a state - all else is a facade.


The army, navy , airforce, fire service, police, schools, life guard, NASA space program
ALL SOCIALISM

False.

Each of those is a social program or a federal program (if you want to include the military and NASA as social programs).

The leadership of the nation is (supposed to be) a constitution - anti-socialist (especially considering the Bill of Rights).

Socialism has no Bill of Rights that actually means anything. Socialism has no irrevocable promise it is held to. Socialism is "We on top are ALL POWERFUL - Obey us or suffer the consequences." - the Nazis, Soviets, CCP, and now the O'Bidens.


Stupidity is an excuse.
Ignorance is not.
You have BOTH is buckets.
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon May 10, 2021 1:47 am

Sculptor wrote:Stupidity is an excuse.
Ignorance is not.
You have BOTH is buckets.

So is idiocy and punditry and arrogance.
You are certainly in no better position.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
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Posts: 2932
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby Sculptor » Thu May 20, 2021 8:10 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Sculptor wrote:Stupidity is an excuse.
Ignorance is not.
You have BOTH is buckets.

So is idiocy and punditry and arrogance.
You are certainly in no better position.


But I'm not the one talking complete bollocks.
:D
Last edited by Sculptor on Fri May 21, 2021 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby Ecmandu » Thu May 20, 2021 8:35 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Sculptor wrote:Stupidity is an excuse.
Ignorance is not.
You have BOTH is buckets.

So is idiocy and punditry and arrogance.
You are certainly in no better position.


Stupidity and ignorance are synonyms.

The real test of life is when you know shit.

Suddenly, you have to be an adult.

That’s why people are so scared of knowing.

Real consequences.

Did you fuck someone? Hell.

Did you speak a wrong word? Hell.

Did you take a wrong step? Hell.

Being an adult is hard.

Being a parent is hard.

You are not my progeny, you are my adopted children.

Consider yourself lucky for what it’s worth.

Obsrvr, when a man literally states during his campaign that he can blow anyone’s brains out in Times Square and people will love him for it...

Not even ironically about the culture. That is a piece of shit dude.

It’s not funny that you’re a trumper.

I’m laying into you as a parent now. That child was not worthy of any esteem.

Hilary was correct when she called trump supporters the “basket of deplorables”.
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Re: Trump Claims Victory

Postby Sculptor » Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:42 am

Ecmandu wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:
Sculptor wrote:Stupidity is an excuse.
Ignorance is not.
You have BOTH is buckets.

So is idiocy and punditry and arrogance.
You are certainly in no better position.


Stupidity and ignorance are synonyms.

No you can be clever and ignorant.
You can be stupid yet not be ignorant of the facts.
Look up the definitions!

The real test of life is when you know shit.

Suddenly, you have to be an adult.

That’s why people are so scared of knowing.

Real consequences.

Did you fuck someone? Hell.

Did you speak a wrong word? Hell.

Did you take a wrong step? Hell.

Being an adult is hard.

Being a parent is hard.

You are not my progeny, you are my adopted children.

Consider yourself lucky for what it’s worth.

Obsrvr, when a man literally states during his campaign that he can blow anyone’s brains out in Times Square and people will love him for it...

Not even ironically about the culture. That is a piece of shit dude.

It’s not funny that you’re a trumper.

I’m laying into you as a parent now. That child was not worthy of any esteem.

Hilary was correct when she called trump supporters the “basket of deplorables”.


The rest of the rant is not apposite.
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