dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby MagsJ » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:44 pm

_
There will not be a WW3.. the majority of the World do not want that!

Russia/Ukraine warring is not new, so what would change that to an escalation now?

Let also Olde grievances from centuries ago, lie.. everyone is past caring.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 25059
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:08 pm

MagsJ wrote:_
There will not be a WW3.. the majority of the World do not want that!

Russia/Ukraine warring is not new, so what would change that to an escalation now?

Let also Olde grievances from centuries ago, lie.. everyone is past caring.





I do hope and pray that You're right!




https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin ... eo-1719248
Last edited by Meno_ on Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:17 pm

Meno_ wrote:
MagsJ wrote:_
There will not be a WW3.. the majority of the World do not want that!

Russia/Ukraine warring is not new, so what would change that to an escalation now?

Let also Olde grievances from centuries ago, lie.. everyone is past caring.





I do hope and pray that You're right!




https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin ... eo-1719248





You've in the triumvirate of participants of 700, AI with adjunctivd Ec, to follow the propositional ante bet of .999990000000>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 1 for an even bet for or against the valid of the ratio.

( of those of the public think of a God forbid catastrophic result)

Not with standing the elite's original 5% leading the way to drastically change that toss of the coin even bet; in fact the dynamics transcend those 5% odds into an diminishingly returned, almost imperceptible limit of an uncertain ratio, that only through direct access to the Absolute figure could quantify
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:54 pm

Meno_ wrote:
Meno_ wrote:
MagsJ wrote:_
There will not be a WW3.. the majority of the World do not want that!

Russia/Ukraine warring is not new, so what would change that to an escalation now?

Let also Olde grievances from centuries ago, lie.. everyone is past caring.





I do hope and pray that You're right!




https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin ... eo-1719248





You've in the triumvirate of participants of 700, AI with adjunctivd Ec, to follow the propositional ante bet of .999990000000>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 1 for an even bet for or against the valid of the ratio.

( of those of the public think of a God forbid catastrophic result)

Not with standing the elite's original 5% leading the way to drastically change that toss of the coin even bet; in fact the dynamics transcend those 5% odds into an diminishingly returned, almost imperceptible limit of an uncertain ratio, that only through direct access to the Absolute figure could quantify





So the implication there is that 5% less the amount of uncertainty dun-tracted, may change to total varience by an inequitable ratio, unproportional to the vast larger 'elitist' group. That uncertianty, may create a 'domino effect' not since mentioned .

Secretary of defense McNamara tied that Asian uncertainty within his large pre- missed apology, of not taking that into account.
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:09 pm

Any mathematicians on board to give a ballpark of difference from standard derivation?( carleas, ed, and the German guy who went out with St.James who said something similar : that it would be catastrophic fof Ms.'oral-office'* to win.

(The assumption may also entail a fourier expansion, where near criticality may reverse polarity?
Just gut level from my own limited polarity)



* check out Clinton analysis, in relation of freudian/classic evenomic spread sheet, and appreciated perhaps a more of less insider's look into macro- micro evenomic theory.

Manor premiss( arcana)versus the minor preoccupation with numerology, prophesy, intuitive post categorical and pre calculated efforts of cyber simulated predictions.
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:23 pm

Mags says:


"Let also Olde grievances from centuries ago, lie.. everyone is past caring."



memo says:

" The Trianon Treaty of post WWI vintage is still sorely remembered on both sides of territorially claimed uncertainty"
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:12 am

Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:20 am

Meno_ wrote:https://www.britannica.com/event/Treaty-of-Trianon




The above subscription to the assumptive theory,( Hungary being described as the " heart of Europe) that ethnocentritism is key, and especially with a literally historical background of the prinz's assassination being proximally causial to the eruption of WWI.

The continuum to WWII is not beyond feason, and doesn't require the mind of transcendence required to form bridges between that image and the underlying dialectical need to ascertain a reality more akin to a synthetic solution.

Who could not have imagined that uncertainty would extend on basis of more imaginatively linked proofs, based more on method then shbstance?

The early discoveries that linked Greek atomism with later discoveries fell back to a not yet indubidable certaintg, hence such progression was not imagenable6.
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:22 am

That being said, such 'factual' sidelines such as can be had with progenital bits, such as Freud et. al. attending Trianon, or that Hitler was borne in contested territory, can further the main argument.



Just pointing to the relevance of what's gluing on in today's unpredictable athmpsphere, as more than a casual comment
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby MagsJ » Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:32 pm

_
Ukraine’s president urges G7 nations to help end the war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has urged the Group of Seven (G7) largest economies to help him end the war against Russia by the end of the year. He spoke after Russia fired missiles at the capital, Kyiv, and other cities, killing at least one person died and injuring several others.

By J. B.

Rescue workers searched beneath the rubble of an apartment block devastated by a Russian missile strike that killed at least one person.

Despite the deadly destruction, there was some hope: they managed to pull a seven-year-old girl from the ruins.
She was pulled out from the partially collapsed building and carried by stretcher to an ambulance.

Authorities say Russia attacked the Ukrainian capital since the early hours of Sunday morning, striking at least two residential buildings.

Kyiv Mayor Vitaly Klitschko suggests Russia wanted to intimidate Ukraine ahead of the G7 gathering and the upcoming summit of the NATO military alliance. "Now, with the NATO summit, it's perhaps a symbolic act of aggression," he said near the destruction site.

Russian missiles also hit other Ukrainian cities, adding pressure on outgunned Ukrainian troops. The Ukrainian military had to abandon the town of Severodonetsk as Russia seemed determined to capture the entire Donbas region, Ukraine's industrial heartland.

With casualties mounting, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky appealed to the G7 to help him end the war before the start of winter.

He spoke through a video link to G7 leaders gathering in the Bavarian Alps in Germany, where he asked for more military support and sanctions against Russia.


Difficult stage

In separate remarks recorded before Monday's meeting, he also asked the G7 for more help during what he called "the difficult stage of the war."

The war is in "such a difficult stage, both morally and emotionally, as we know the enemy will not succeed," he said. "But we do not know how many shots, losses, and efforts will have to be made before we see victory is on the horizon."

G7 leaders were due to offer more weapons and further sanctions, including a ban on Russian gold imports. Yet Moscow, already hit by a magnitude of other sanctions, including an energy boycott, tried to play down the punitive measures.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov also announced there were, in his words," no grounds to call this situation a default", following reports Russia has defaulted on its debt.

But the implications of the war are already felt globally amid concerns that hundreds of millions of people could face starvation in Africa and the Middle East.

Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson was among those calling for action to get grain supplies out of Ukraine's blockaded ports.

Hungary has already offered to help provide an alternative route for neighboring Ukraine's food produce as energy and food prices increase worldwide
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 25059
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:56 am

Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:00 am

MagsJ wrote:_
Ukraine’s president urges G7 nations to help end the war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has urged the Group of Seven (G7) largest economies to help him end the war against Russia by the end of the year. He spoke after Russia fired missiles at the capital, Kyiv, and other cities, killing at least one person died and injuring several others.

By J. B.

Rescue workers searched beneath the rubble of an apartment block devastated by a Russian missile strike that killed at least one person.

Despite the deadly destruction, there was some hope: they managed to pull a seven-year-old girl from the ruins.
She was pulled out from the partially collapsed building and carried by stretcher to an ambulance.

Authorities say Russia attacked the Ukrainian capital since the early hours of Sunday morning, striking at least two residential buildings.

Kyiv Mayor Vitaly Klitschko suggests Russia wanted to intimidate Ukraine ahead of the G7 gathering and the upcoming summit of the NATO military alliance. "Now, with the NATO summit, it's perhaps a symbolic act of aggression," he said near the destruction site.

Russian missiles also hit other Ukrainian cities, adding pressure on outgunned Ukrainian troops. The Ukrainian military had to abandon the town of Severodonetsk as Russia seemed determined to capture the entire Donbas region, Ukraine's industrial heartland.

With casualties mounting, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky appealed to the G7 to help him end the war before the start of winter.

He spoke through a video link to G7 leaders gathering in the Bavarian Alps in Germany, where he asked for more military support and sanctions against Russia.


Difficult stage

In separate remarks recorded before Monday's meeting, he also asked the G7 for more help during what he called "the difficult stage of the war."

The war is in "such a difficult stage, both morally and emotionally, as we know the enemy will not succeed," he said. "But we do not know how many shots, losses, and efforts will have to be made before we see victory is on the horizon."

G7 leaders were due to offer more weapons and further sanctions, including a ban on Russian gold imports. Yet Moscow, already hit by a magnitude of other sanctions, including an energy boycott, tried to play down the punitive measures.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov also announced there were, in his words," no grounds to call this situation a default", following reports Russia has defaulted on its debt.

But the implications of the war are already felt globally amid concerns that hundreds of millions of people could face starvation in Africa and the Middle East.

Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson was among those calling for action to get grain supplies out of Ukraine's blockaded ports.

Hungary has already offered to help provide an alternative route for neighboring Ukraine's food produce as energy and food prices increase worldwide




Being originally from Hungary. I don't know how to feel a boy it playing up to either side, though fits the pattern of 'goulash' diplomacy. Kind of a meta double edged sword.

Maybe it is the new political correctness , minus a synthetic dialectic.

I dunno.



"
"Officials such as Russian President Vladimir Putin and Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov have issued warnings in recent months against NATO expansion or perceived threats from the alliance that they say could endanger Russia's security, even as their own country continues its monthslong assault on Ukraine."



build up?



"Last Friday, after a meeting with Jeyhun Bayramov, Azerbaijan's minister of foreign affairs, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said he believed that NATO and the European Union (EU) are building a coalition to possibly wage war with Russia."



>>> yeah !<<<


Great entertainment value for a totally bored global population, semi thrilled by new serial daytime shows, like hold on to your seats folks, the end is mot yet here , once you see the white log their eye reflecting the Grey white mushrooms...or comic relief reality star Meghan markle's newest gig of blowing up the front gate of bell more all with the intent of assaulting the near 100 tear old monarch. Who needs better entertainment.
Oh yeah! Forgot to mention vampire bats coming out at night to feed on the remains of slain patriots of the cause...
Last edited by Meno_ on Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:52 am

This is th softest war I have ever heard of. One single person getting killed makes the news.

The Russians are absolutely the worst psychos I have ever heard of.
There's no one thing that's true. It's all true.
Ernest Hemingway
User avatar
origami
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:47 pm

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby MagsJ » Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:22 pm

_
8C6C035F-2D88-4052-B3DC-61E3F5FC99CC.jpeg
8C6C035F-2D88-4052-B3DC-61E3F5FC99CC.jpeg (90.43 KiB) Viewed 408 times

Drivers are being “taken for fools” by fuel retailers, according to the AA, as petrol and diesel prices rose for the 38th day in a row – despite falling wholesale costs.

While oil prices on global markets have fallen back from recent highs, the pump price of diesel edged closer to breaking the £2-per-litre barrier for the first time.

Petrol is now at 191.2p a litre, while diesel is 199p, the AA said.

Jack Cousens, head of roads policy for the AA, said: “Drivers are being taken for fools by retailers as the cost of fuel continues its worryingly upward trend.”

The RAC labelled recent price rises ”inexplicable”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/independe ... 12291.html
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 25059
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:34 pm

Absolutely fake news. The yellow line here shows the drop from recent highs they mention. The purple line shows where oil was before the war on Russia. It is currently over $110 per barrel.

Untitled.gif
Untitled.gif (14.54 KiB) Viewed 408 times
There's no one thing that's true. It's all true.
Ernest Hemingway
User avatar
origami
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:47 pm

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:35 pm

(each little bar represents one week)
There's no one thing that's true. It's all true.
Ernest Hemingway
User avatar
origami
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:47 pm

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:40 pm

The refining industry is probably still barely catching up. Just because the price takes ever so slightly of a fall, from a monstruous $120 to a still monstruous $110, in the space of a few days (for all the refiners now, they will go up again next week, which is the trend), doesn't mean a whole industry has time to shift its entire position. They need to make contracts months in advance, plan prices for a whole quarter (3 months) at least, attempt to read what oil prices will do next month.

Prices don't dip (eeeever so slightly) for a day or two and the refining industry suddenly goes "oh ok it's over, cut the prices."

They would need to see a serious change in the circumstances affecting the price of oil to even dare to dream that it will not become prohibitively expensive.
There's no one thing that's true. It's all true.
Ernest Hemingway
User avatar
origami
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:47 pm

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:42 pm

Blame you politicians who are cutting the world off from one of its main oil supplies because of a war that has something like a 2 person a week casualty rate and has two participants, not one, the EU and Russia.
There's no one thing that's true. It's all true.
Ernest Hemingway
User avatar
origami
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:47 pm

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:43 pm

Typical NYT headline of late...

"Russia Ramps Up Shelling in the East as It Prepares for Next Offensive"

For weeks now the war in Ukraine has simply dragged on. No more big bold headlines, no more stories or opinion pieces about the threat of a nuclear holocaust.

Now, perhaps, it comes down to whether Putin, offensive by offensive, either takes control of the entire country -- and the reaction in the West to that -- or gains control of parts of the country and stops there. Ukraine in some form will still exist and the nukes don't fly.

Just one more "Hell on Earth" calamity for hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. History is chock-full of them.

With the military industrial complex folks [theirs and ours] grinning all the way to the bank.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 46403
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: hanging out with godot

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby origami » Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:27 pm

The dollar, even iwth +8% inflation, is at a 20 year high compared to the euro.

Europe is crashing in flames, like the idiots that they are.

Russia offered a peace early on in exchange for letting some border areas of the Ukraine remain outside of the EU, which has had stringent restrictions against Russia for decades, and if they had taken it everybody could be happy and making money right now.

But oh no, they needed their lebensraum.

Let those motherfuckers eat cake then.
There's no one thing that's true. It's all true.
Ernest Hemingway
User avatar
origami
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:47 pm

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:48 am

But then, look at this:


"Putin Ally Says Punishing Russia Could Lead to Nuclear Annihilation

WORLD RUSSIA RUSSIA-UKRAINE

Dmitry Medvedev, Russia's deputy Security Council chairman, warned on Wednesday that punishing Russia for war crimes threatened the "existence of mankind."



Medvedev, the former Russian president and prime minister, who is a close ally of President Vladimir Putin, described attempts to create tribunals to probe Russia's conduct during the invasion of Ukraine as "crazy."

"These proposals are not only legally void. The idea of ​​punishing the country that has the largest nuclear potential is absurd in itself," Medvedev said in a post on his Telegram channel.


Punishing Russia for war crimes "potentially threatens the existence of mankind," he added.



Russian President Vladimir Putin and Dmitry Medvedev
Dmitry Medvedev, the deputy chairman of the Security Council of Russia, warned on Wednesday that punishing Russia for war crimes threatens the “existence of mankind.” Pictured, Russian President Vladimir Putin (L) and Medvedev (R) attend the unveiling ceremony of the monument to Vladimir The Great on the National Unity Day outside of the Kremlin on November, 4, 2016 in Moscow.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) is investigating possible war crimes committed during Putin's invasion of Ukraine. World leaders have called for the Russian president to be held accountable amid Kyiv's rising civilian death toll.


Russia has been accused of intentionally targeting civilians, using indiscriminate methods of warfare and using cluster bombs and munitions anticipating disproportionate effects on civilians.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken said in March, a month after the invasion began, that Russia's military had committed war crimes in Ukraine.

"Our assessment is based on a careful review of available information from public and intelligence sources," Blinken wrote at the time. "As with any alleged crime, a court of law with jurisdiction over the crime is ultimately responsible for determining criminal guilt in specific cases. The U.S. government will continue to track reports of war crimes and will share information we gather with allies, partners, and international institutions and organizations, as appropriate. We are committed to pursuing accountability using every tool available, including criminal prosecutions."
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby origami » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:20 am

The EU is going broke (faster than anyone else) and will have to agree to terms soon. Obviously, lol, those terms cannot include punishing one side for war crimes.

What would the EU do if Russia set up its own court and charged them with war crimes? For example, for the children fatalities of Donbas? It's ridiculous, specially when dealing with a super power, which is the point Medvedev is making.

You all have spent months ripping your hairs out over the looming nuclear holocaust. One gets the impression you get off on it.
There's no one thing that's true. It's all true.
Ernest Hemingway
User avatar
origami
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:47 pm

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby origami » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:28 am

It's the same impression one gets when discussing a climate holocaust with global warming fanatics. Like they would be disappointed if it didn't happen.
There's no one thing that's true. It's all true.
Ernest Hemingway
User avatar
origami
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:47 pm

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby origami » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:30 am

The news is this:

There will be no war crime trials, Europe will settle for terms or collapse, and there will be no nuclear deployment.

Everything else exists in the fantasies of a group of people that seems bored with life.

Here's more news: the EU might collapse even if it does.
There's no one thing that's true. It's all true.
Ernest Hemingway
User avatar
origami
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:47 pm

Re: dasein and thermo-nuclear war?

Postby Meno_ » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:46 am

origami wrote:The EU is going broke (faster than anyone else) and will have to agree to terms soon. Obviously, lol, those terms cannot include punishing one side for war crimes.

What would the EU do if Russia set up its own court and charged them with war crimes? For example, for the children fatalities of Donbas? It's ridiculous, specially when dealing with a super power, which is the point Medvedev is making.

You all have spent months ripping your hairs out over the looming nuclear holocaust. One gets the impression you get off on it.



I hope You'd point is well taken, for the nations at war and fir all the world.


However,In a current article in the Atlantic Monthly, the following opinion has appeared:

"Carl von Clausewitz observed in his classic On War that “the maximum use of force is by no means incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect.” That means, in part, acting thoughtfully but with the utmost effort, understanding that war is more bar fight than chess game. Or, to put it in the simpler words of Jim Malone, Eliot Ness’s counselor in The Untouchables, “You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That’s the Chicago way! And that’s how you get Capone.”


Al Capone is an apt analogy for what the West confronts in Russia: a particularly noxious mix of Mafia mentality, hypernationalist ideology, and totalitarian technique. Elegance is not the Russian way, and it cannot be our way. This is the light in which one should measure the accomplishments of NATO’s recent gathering in Madrid.

The tangible efforts that Western leaders announced were impressive in many respects, particularly the commitments to provide Ukraine with nearly 500 artillery systems, 600 tanks, hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition, and more. The question, as always, is whether these will be delivered as swiftly as they can be absorbed, and whether the United States and its allies are “leading the target” by putting in place now the infrastructure to prepare Ukraine for the weapons it will require and hopefully receive one, two, or six months from now, and for training the large forces it must mobilize.






The United States made some incremental additional commitments of forces to Europe, including two destroyers for a naval base in Spain. The policy declarations were important as well: a decision to expand by an order of magnitude NATO’s high-readiness forces; a formal recognition of the challenge (NATO avoided for now the word threat) posed by China; and an agreement to welcome Finnish and Swedish applications to join the alliance.






But these moves, beneficial as they may be, only partly meet the needs of the moment. Time and again Ukraine has demonstrated its ability to absorb high-end military hardware and deploy it quickly and effectively. This seems to be the case with HIMARS, the mobile rocket systems that are extremely accurate, and with which Ukrainian forces seem to be already hitting Russian ammunition dumps and military headquarters. Instead of the promised eight, the Ukrainians need 80, and work should be happening now to scale up transfers of these and like weapons as fast as possible.

What the Biden administration still struggles with is the ultimate purpose of Western assistance to Ukraine. At his press conference, the president said that the United States and its allies would not “allow Ukraine to be defeated.” That is the wrong objective. It should be, rather, to ensure Russia’s defeat—the thwarting of its aims to conquer yet more of Ukrainian territory, the smashing of its armed forces, and the doing of both in a convincing, public, and, yes, therefore humiliating way. Chicago rules, in other words.


In the same way, the administration is wrong to titrate arms out of a misguided desire to avoid provoking Russian escalation or enabling the Ukrainians to do too much. The West is in a moment of military-industrial crisis; it should be taking concrete measures to ramp up industrial mobilization, with the goal of equipping Ukraine to the maximum while rearming the expanding forces of a newly awakened NATO.

Even as Western allies counter Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, they must also meet the broader and longer-term threat that Russia poses to the eastern members of NATO, particularly the Baltic states.

The Western allies will not invade Russia, nor will they overthrow its regime directly—one day, hopefully, Russians will do that. Putin is motivated by imperial fantasies of imitating Peter the Great and other, even less savory Russian leaders. And Putin’s successor, should the Russian leader die or become incapacitated while in office, will likely be no better. For evidence of that, one need only consult the ravings of key advisers such as Nikolai Patrushev. If and when the battles cease in Ukraine, Russia’s intentions to expand and subjugate its neighbors will remain.

The good news here is that if one sets aside misleading memories of World War II and the Cold War, and disregards the ominous mutterings of experts who exaggerated Russian capacity before the war, then it becomes obvious that Russia is a weak state.

Russia’s GDP is less than that of South Korea. Its leadership is afraid to openly mobilize its middle class, so it refuses to declare war and send young men from Moscow and St. Petersburg to the slaughterhouse that is the Donbas. Its generals are, for the most part, incompetent, which is why purges of them continue. It is scraping the bottom of its manpower barrel and so raises to absurd heights the age level of potential service members. Corruption and indiscipline have rotted out its maintenance and low-level leadership. What it has is Cold War–era stockpiles of weapons and munitions (and those are huge, but finite); some pockets of excellence, for example its railroad units; and utter disregard for human life throughout the chain of command.

Even so, a mangy, myopic, and rabid bear is still a dangerous beast. That’s why beating Russian forces in Ukraine is not enough. The West must impose upon Russia sanctions intended not, as the current ones are, to punish, but rather to enfeeble (Chicago rules, again). The plummeting of Russian car production is an example of a basic fact, which is that Russian production depends, more than one might think, on access to Western chips, machine tools, and special materials. However the Ukraine war ends, permanently or temporarily, the West needs to settle into a comprehensive sanctions regime that will weaken Russia’s economy in the long haul and throttle its ability to rearm on a large scale when the shooting stops.

NATO expansion should assist in this process. The alliance will soon in all likelihood have Sweden and Finland as full members. They have real and potential capacity (Finland more the former, Sweden more the latter) and serious political leadership. But a NATO of 32 members will be even more unwieldy than what we now have.

Read: The accidental Trumpification of NATO

The solution—which cannot be publicly declared—is a NATO-within-NATO. Germany, France, and Italy have the largest economies in the European Union and in theory should carry the most weight in European-security decision making as well. But they cannot. Germany, the proverbial Hamlet of nations, is fatally compromised by its unwillingness and inability to make good on military commitments, and its recent sordid past in enabling Russia’s growth and stranglehold on European energy supplies. France is domestically torn, while the overweening vanity of its presidents makes it difficult for them to get a receptive hearing from lesser mortals. Italy, as ever, produces statesmen on occasion, but not statesmanship.

A nascent coalition of powers is, however, willing to take Russia seriously and has the muscle to thwart her while bringing less resolute European states along. The Eastern European and Baltic states, with Poland in the lead, know Russian tyranny firsthand, and are ready to stand up to it; the Scandinavian states, in particular Finland and Norway, are almost as intent; the English-speaking external powers, including the United Kingdom and Canada, are similarly alive and determined. It is to this core group that American statecraft must look.

The British chief of the General Staff recently described the Ukraine crisis as a 1937 moment for the West. It was an acute historical comparison. In that year the Sino-Japanese war began, setting the stage for World War II. In that year the West had before it choices that could have avoided the horrors of a far worse conflict, but it ducked.

To their credit, in the current moment, Western leaders are performing far better than did their counterparts 85 years ago—but not yet well enough. We’re dealing with Capone, and while, like Eliot Ness, we need to stay within the constraints of law and basic decency, we also need to apply Chicago rules."



This is totally contrary to the proposition quoted above of avoiding any undo threats, for fear of unnerving already unstable principles, that unfortunately have abandoned the established. dialectical reality abandoned in the 1980's with the fall of the Soviet Union.

It can be argued not ways, and the recurrent power plays sound very much like the late 1800's political rationalizations, when nihilism took root in Russia.
The social movements have rebounded with a parallel process, for the average Russian worker feels as entrapped by the exercise of oligarchic power, as did the multitude of serfs felt by the Romanos of that period.

This peculiar transformation is particularly relevent big Putin himself seeing himself in somewhat of the same rule as Tsar Peter I, and these dynamic similarities should alarm liberaks, whose idea of connecting social realities a mere 100 years or so, should also alarm liberals, whose definition of 'crazy' seems to exclude this whose power of the will's source excuses them for being candidates fitting particular psychiatric maladies.

How can an ex president of a now sub standard ecenomyz, wager humankind for the slights on a few aberrant. leaders?
How can this even be posdible?

On one hand, an appeasement can be as dangerous then an outright show of not using restraint, so where is the ideological recurrance that needs to support rationale of capitalism over socialism, where even the less insightful among the political elite may miss this mark of contention?
Dies this not feel like the extremely rationalized progression of a ballooning of social mistrust on both sides of the equation?
Last edited by Meno_ on Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
Meno_
The Invisible One
 
Posts: 13276
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

PreviousNext

Return to Current Events



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users