reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue May 03, 2022 2:54 am

in stunning news, according to paperwork released by
someone in the court system, that the Supreme Court
has already decided to overturn Roe Vs Wade...

this terrible news means that the conservatives who claim to
be "pro-life" can allow thousands if not millions of children
to suffer horrible lives...for a conservative, life is sacred all
the way until birth, and then they couldn't give a shit....
for if life were actually "precious" they would vote for
such things as WIC programs and increased child care
and better public schooling, but conservatives are not
actually pro-life at all.... they are pro-fetus, but once born,
you are on your own....

if conservatives were actually pro-life, they would vote for
the end of capital punishment, they would hold
policemen accountable for the death of every person
at the hands of the police..

so what conservatives are, is situationally against death,
but they favor it in so many other different situations that
they have lost the right to claim to be pro-life....

the conservative war on women and minorities goes on...
the conservative continuation of creating, or recreating
the situation that Margaret Atwood describes in her novel,
"The Handmaid's tale" is to put women back into the kitchen,
"Barefoot and Pregnant".... which not so incidental is the exact
same goal as Muslims have for their women....

for women to vote conservative is insane because the conservative's
only want women to be "barefoot and pregnant" and nothing else...
as a women, you might think, not in my lifetime, but if they take
away your fundamental right to make your own decisions about
your body, then anything can be taken away from you... women
being force to leave the work force... that is now possible,
being force to wear burqa's, why not.. you cannot make your own
choice about your own body, so why not take away your basic
rights as a human being.... you say, Kropotkin, don't be silly,
they won't do that.... but how do you know, if they can take
away your own choices about your body, then anything is possible....
if you have no choice over your own body, then you have no choices at all....

Kropotkin
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to put me on ignore, life would be good..

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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue May 03, 2022 3:14 am

if you agree that Roe vs Wade should and must be struck down,
then you agree with the Chinese law that forced families to
have one child and one child only.... in other words, you are allowing
the government to tell you how many children you can have... for in
the denial of Roe vs Wade, means that the government is telling us,
forcing us to do as the government says... we have no choice..
and how is that any different than forcing people to have the vaccine
or to wear mask... where is my choice? I have none... the government
is dictating terms to me.... and where is my freedom in that?
and this is far more concerning that any possible mask wearing....

for wearing a mask isn't life changing.. prevent me from making
my making my own choices about my body is life changing...
so what next, preventing women from Abortions, to
to declaring laws that Masturbation is illegal because it kills sperm
and sperm is an already existing form of life, or so the right wing tells us....
and if the government can tell women that they are unable to
have any choice over their own bodies, who is to say the government
won't do the same for men?
All men must be forced to turn their sperm over to the government...
or only certain men can have children... talk about forced Eugenics...
this prevention of a women's right to choose, now takes us down the
path of government telling us who can have children and who can't...
that is Eugenics at it best and what the right wing wants to do...
be able to tell us who can have children and who cannot....
to have sexual intercourse over a certain age might be banned because
the statistics suggest that men who have children past a certain age
have a greater risk of children being autistic.... and the government can
now dictate who can have children and who can't if, if Roe vs wade is
dismantled... want children past the age of 50... the government can
legally say that is illegal... your body is no longer your choice...
the government can tell you who you can have sex with, thus
the possibility of banning homosexuality returns, to men being
being prevented from having sex over the age of 50, to women being
forced back into the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant....

if the Supreme Court can ban Roe vs Wade, it means we have
no more right to our bodies.... our very bodies can be
legislated... thus no more tattoos or body piercings if the
government can decide no more abortions... there is no difference...

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue May 03, 2022 7:43 am

colorado codified right to choose so this wont change anything there. people with money will just fly there or to other states where women are still free and have the procedure then go home.
pending
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby obsrvr524 » Tue May 03, 2022 9:44 am

-
Leave it to PK - anything that releases total global control over all people of Earth -- must be an evil outcome.

The Leftist tragedy in this story is not the decision. The very serious tragedy is the leaking of pre-decision discussions - a typical treasonous act of the socialist authoritarians in an attempt to persuade the outcome.
              You have been observed.
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    It's just the same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --

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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Sculptor » Tue May 03, 2022 10:26 am

obsrvr524 wrote:-
Leave it to PK - anything that releases total global control over all people of Earth -- must be an evil outcome.

The Leftist tragedy in this story is not the decision. The very serious tragedy is the leaking of pre-decision discussions - a typical treasonous act of the socialist authoritarians in an attempt to persuade the outcome.



The problem with leftism is that it is colonised by rightism.
Leftism is a move to empower the primary producers so that people who WORK for a living get a fair crack, and those that can't get a chance to grow towards a better life with others as they can.
The means to do this is to devolve power.

In a world already dominated by the Epsteins, Trumps and Murdochs of this world leftism is forced into seeking power through a system already ringed by greedy elites whose means of earning does not require work, but only requires ownership and wealth. As the left gains power they become right wing, and that is how they lose the plot, and lose the support of idiot scum that think that Trumps is a hero because that is what the media tells them
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Sculptor » Tue May 03, 2022 10:27 am

Ending abortion rights is unamerican.
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Motor Daddy » Tue May 03, 2022 10:53 am

Just one more example of politicians appointing political judges that support their religious beliefs, in order to FORCE people to live by their religious views.

The Christian Conservatives have enough judges on the court now, so they can dictate the American way of life according to their religious views.

Just one more battle in the religious war that's been going on for thousands of years. Morons!
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue May 03, 2022 2:06 pm

Haven’t read this, but listened to arguments live:
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... -draft.pdf

Will they use it to deemphasize bodily autonomy when mandating new tech?

Remains to be seen.
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Ecmandu » Tue May 03, 2022 3:38 pm

You all should have seen this coming. The Supreme Court ruled George W. Bush as president even though he lost the electoral college.

The two worst presidents in the US were Bush and Trump. Bush probably has a picture of Trump in his bedroom that he masturbates to everyday.

https://youtu.be/IuUm8cP8tW8
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue May 03, 2022 4:35 pm

tu quoque won’t save ya from being salted w fire js ;
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue May 03, 2022 4:48 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:-
Leave it to PK - anything that releases total global control over all people of Earth -- must be an evil outcome.

K: I have no idea what this means outside of OB losing his grip on
reality....

OB: The Leftist tragedy in this story is not the decision. The very serious tragedy is the leaking of pre-decision discussions - a typical treasonous act of the socialist authoritarians in an attempt to persuade the outcome.


K: Of course, attack those who released the document... typical right
wing deflection...The only question here is the decision to end Roe vs Wade...
anything else is deflecting from the real issue...

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Ecmandu » Tue May 03, 2022 6:51 pm

The Bible states thou shall not kill. Pretty fucking hard not to kill a plant or a bacteria.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say thou shall not rape and torture.

In fact, they even raised the level of torture as the New Testament was added.

In fact, Teddy Roosevelt was quoted as saying, “speak softly and carry a big stick”

Is that the best we can do with our spirits?
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby iambiguous » Tue May 03, 2022 8:44 pm

From MICHELLE GOLDBERG at the NYT:

'For now, women who live in blue states are safe, but that may not last. As The Washington Post reported on Monday, anti-abortion groups and their congressional allies are already planning for a nationwide abortion ban if and when Republicans retake power. All those who can get pregnant, whether or not they think they’ll ever want or need an abortion, would be affected. The 2016 election, which allowed Donald Trump to reshape the Supreme Court, was, among other things, a referendum on women’s equality. Women’s equality lost.'

For now, all eyes are on the Supremes. But if the predictions being made about the November elections are true, Republicans could soon own Congress. And if in 2024 Trump [or someone like him] is elected president?

Stay tuned.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby iambiguous » Tue May 03, 2022 10:36 pm

Her's a conservative's take on it as well:

BRET STEPHENS in the NYT:

'But the pro-lifers would soon rediscover the meaning of another conservative truism: Beware of unintended consequences. Those include the return of the old, often unsafe, illegal abortion (or abortions in Mexico), the entrenchment of pro-choice majorities in blue states and the likely consolidation of pro-choice majorities in many purple states, driven by voters newly anxious over their reproductive rights. Americans are almost evenly divided on their personal views of abortion, according to years of Gallup polling, but only 19 percent think abortion should be illegal under all circumstances.'

Could liberals/progressives be given a better gift this Summer, just months before the Congressional elections, then an issue around which to rally the base and to bring even those in the purple and red states on board in stopping Trumpworld from advancing its agenda.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed May 04, 2022 4:02 am

Sculptor wrote:The problem with leftism is that it is colonised by rightism.

I think you have your isms confused.

In the US the "Right" refers to those "conserving" the US Constitution and the civil rights it upholds (-"conservatives" - not necessarily religious). The Right is very similar to "Libertarian" except for being more inclusive of historical norms and doctrines whereas the Libertarian prefers freedom from those norms.

In the US the "Left" is entirely authoritarian socialist/Marxist/Communist - but currently using the nom de plume - "Democrat" in order to usurp the bemused liberal population (who are technically the exact opposite of authoritarian - but too confounded to realize it).

Sculptor wrote:Leftism is a move to empower the primary producers so that people who WORK for a living get a fair crack, and those that can't get a chance to grow towards a better life with others as they can.

All of that is merely the bemusing narrative of the Marxist/Socialist doctrine - the great sounding carrot hanging from a stick used to lead the unsuspecting (such as yourself).

The US Left is entirely about vampirism - luring volunteers into usurping other people's blood and money.

Their Roe vs Wade issue is entirely about a federal government mandating behavior that the US Constitution allows the states to decide. Of course the authoritarian elitist global socialists will do or say anything to hold onto centralized power (they are the actual "Nazis", Marxists, Globalists, Satanists, "Progressives", and Jewish left always accusing their opposition of their own guilt).
              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just the same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --

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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Ecmandu » Wed May 04, 2022 4:02 pm

No dude.

Abortion rights are non negotiable.

The word is called CHOICE for a reason.

The ‘nazis’ are the ‘Christian’ conservatives.

Obsrvr. I do not like you much.

On this board, we theorize that some people are Nazi propagandists... maybe Russian ones as well.

It’s possible they could just be retarded Americans.
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The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby iambiguous » Wed May 04, 2022 4:40 pm

Ecmandu wrote:No dude.

Abortion rights are non negotiable.

The word is called CHOICE for a reason.

The ‘nazis’ are the ‘Christian’ conservatives.

Obsrvr. I do not like you much.

On this board, we theorize that some people are Nazi propagandists... maybe Russian ones as well.

It’s possible they could just be retarded Americans.


Note to Observ and to all of the other fulminating fanatic objectivists here:

Not to worry. He is no doubt about to leave this board too. 8)
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby iambiguous » Wed May 04, 2022 8:36 pm

From the NYT:

'Gov. Gavin Newsom of California on Wednesday vowed to protect the right to abortion in the state he leads and issued an impassioned “wake-up call” to the Democratic Party about what he described as a coordinated Republican-led effort to erode more rights that many Americans have for decades assumed were settled, such as the right to interracial marriage.

'“Don’t think for a second this is where it’s going to stop,” he said, speaking outside of a Planned Parenthood building in Los Angeles, flanked by women wearing pink shirts. “Pay attention, America. They’re coming for you next.”

'Mr. Newsom said that when a member of his staff first alerted him to the Politico report on a leaked draft opinion that indicated the Supreme Court had privately voted to strike down Roe v. Wade, the governor believed it was satire: “I said, ‘Is this The Onion? Is this true?”

'Within hours, Mr. Newsom and top state lawmakers had proposed an amendment to the state’s constitution specifically enshrining the right to abortion. Lawmakers plan to put the issue in front of California voters — who overwhelmingly support Roe v. Wade — in November.'


Here's the thing I'm still fuzzy about...

Suppose Trumpworld succeeds in capturing both the House and the Senate in November. And suppose further that Trump [or someone like him] is elected to the White House in 2024.

Can the Congress then pass legislation that literally makes all abortions illegal? Legislation the president then signs and enforces. Law that is then backed by the Supremes?

The Blue States may react to Alito by passing State legislation protecting [and even expanding] abortion rights. But, two or three years from now, can that all be voided by the Congress and the White House?

Same with rights afforded homosexuals and others noted by Newsome?

How far can -- will -- the fulminating fanatic right-wing objectivists take their authoritarian Christian dogmas here in America?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed May 04, 2022 9:01 pm

now given as you say, they will try to legislate abortion away
from a national platform, this give lie to what observe wrote here:

OB: Their Roe vs Wade issue is entirely about a federal government mandating behavior that the US Constitution allows the states to decide. Of course the authoritarian elitist global socialists will do or say anything to hold onto centralized power (they are the actual "Nazis", Marxists, Globalists, Satanists, "Progressives", and Jewish left always accusing their opposition of their own guilt).

K; it has nothing to do with state law and conservatives don't give a shit
about states rights, and that will be shown by their attempt to nationally
make abortion illegal.. and in fact, their coming efforts to ban
birth control and gay marriage and a host of other culture war issues...
but why do they draw the line at culture war issues?
because they have nothing else to run on...

the GOP last platform statement for the 2020 election
was basically whatever IQ45 said it was.... see it for yourself,
google the GOP 2020 platform...they didn't write one....

so the conservatives don't have anything to run on, and so
because of that, they must run on culture war issues...

ask them questions that previous conservatives ran on, like
the size of the government and you get conspiracy theories..
but no answers.. ask them about NATO and you get more
conspiracy theories.. ask them about foreign policies
and quickly learn, they don't have a foreign policy...

so, banning abortion is about them having control over peoples
lives but it certainly isn't related to any overall domestic policy
because they don't have one....unless you can count
being afraid of everything as a policy theory... for that is the one constant of
conservatives, they are afraid of everything.....

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed May 04, 2022 10:19 pm

I note this because I wasn't aware of this before, but
7 of the 9 justices are Catholic.... and who says religion is
dead? forcing us to hold to Catholic beliefs even if we are not
Catholic, that sure does have a Catholic ring to it, doesn't it....

the second part is it is vastly more likely that the report about
Roe vs wade was released by a conservative... mind you, several
news organization had it for months before it was released....
and the most likely culprit is Ginni Thomas, Clarance Thomas wife...
and why her? to force the members of the court who are right wingers
to hold to their positions.. to force them to hold or be branded and
attacked as being not conservative enough..... remember,
the ideology/ism of conservatism cannot be half hearted,
it must be complete and fully funded.. otherwise you are branded
as being, like Liz Chaney, a RINO....belief in the ideology and ism
of conservatism must be absolute and complete.. or you are branded
of being an heretic or "un-American" or a "traitor"
or perhaps, "commie scum"

there is no flexibility in conservative thinking... your place is fixed
and set or you are not part of being a "true" conservative...

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu May 05, 2022 6:48 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:OB: Their Roe vs Wade issue is entirely about a federal government mandating behavior that the US Constitution allows the states to decide.

K; it has nothing to do with state law...

Idiot, did you even bother to read the leaked opinion? - No - of course not.

FYI - it has nothing to do with banning abortions. All it says is that the Supreme Court SCOTUS should not be dictating anything about abortions one way or another.

That is all it says - explicitly pointing out that the opinion serves no other concern at all.

-- not that the "retards" care what the facts are.
              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just the same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --

The prospect of death weighs naught upon the purpose of life - James S Saint - 2009
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Sculptor » Thu May 05, 2022 10:52 am

If you don't want to have an abortion then don't.

But your squeamishness does not give you the right to force a rape victim to carry a brat to full term.

Nor does it give you the right to enforce the birth of ANY unwanted child - unless you are personally committed to raising it.
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu May 05, 2022 12:09 pm

Sculptor wrote:If you don't want to have an abortion then don't.

If you don't want a child then don't have sex to cause one.

Sculptor wrote:But your squeamishness does not give you the right to force a rape victim to carry a brat to full term.

Nor does it give you the right to enforce the birth of ANY unwanted child - unless you are personally committed to raising it.

You irresponsibly causing a child doesn't give you the right to kill that child either - especially without the consent of the father. Do parents in your country have the legal right to kill their children if no one is looking?

As far as I know, everywhere abortion is banned there are exceptions - such as rape.

But none of that is relevant.

The opinion being debated by SCOTUS is neither for nor against abortions.

The opinion being debated is whether SCOTUS has the constitutional authority to invent and dictate laws in the USA.


And very clearly - IT DOES NOT.

The Roe vs Wade ruling of SCOTUS has been unconstitutional in the US from the beginning - it was never a legal ruling. Now they are considering remanding their prior mistake.

They are NOT ruling for or against abortions - ONLY that SCOTUS hasn't the legal authority to invent and dictate laws. The US Legislators - their Congress - creates federal and state laws - no one else (although the treasonous criminal O'Biden ignores the law anyway).

If it should be a law either for or against - MAKE A LAW for it PROPERLY!
              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just the same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --

The prospect of death weighs naught upon the purpose of life - James S Saint - 2009
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Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu May 05, 2022 3:48 pm

obsrvr524:
But none of that is relevant.

The opinion being debated by SCOTUS is neither for nor against abortions.

The opinion being debated is whether SCOTUS has the constitutional authority to invent and dictate laws in the USA.


And very clearly - IT DOES NOT.

The Roe vs Wade ruling of SCOTUS has been unconstitutional in the US from the beginning - it was never a legal ruling. Now they are considering remanding their prior mistake.

They are NOT ruling for or against abortions - ONLY that SCOTUS hasn't the legal authority to invent and dictate laws. The US Legislators - their Congress - creates federal and state laws - no one else (although the treasonous criminal O'Biden ignores the law anyway).

If it should be a law either for or against - MAKE A LAW for it PROPERLY![/quote]

K: interesting argument....so under your theory, the SCOTUS should not
have involved themselves in any of these cases either...
(in no particular order)

Bush vs Gore,
hobby lobby,
Citizens United
desegregation of schools (Brown v. board of education of Topeka)
Loving V Virginia allowing interracial marriages
Marbury vs Madison
Miranda rights
Mapp v Ohio.. police illegally obtaining materials
McCulloch V Maryland which is about federal supremacy and implied powers
Gibbons V Ogden allowing the feds to control commerce, not the states
Gideon V Wainwright.. the right of the poor to legal council
Regents of the University of California V Bakke affirmative actions....

so under your theory the SCOTUS should not have involved
themselves in those cases either.....

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 11201
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: reports say Roe vs Wade to be struck down

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu May 05, 2022 3:55 pm

Sculptor"]If you don't want to have an abortion then don't.

OB: If you don't want a child then don't have sex to cause one.

K: Ok, Ecmandu....

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 11201
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

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