ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:16 pm

The only way banks make extra money on your savings account deposit to pay you points on it is by investing it in businsses that produce money.

That is where the money comes from.
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:16 pm

origami wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:if Steve Jobs took out a 100,000 dollar loan for Apple, the bank doesn’t make billions of it... it makes about 3,000 dollars.


That is not how it works either. If they charged only as much from their investments as they paid on their deposits, they would go broke in days, because many businesses go broke and are unable to pay back the loan.


That’s not true either. The interest becomes higher with bankruptcies ... and your credit score tanks.

Are you really having this discussion to defend trump?
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:23 pm

origami wrote:The only way banks make extra money on your savings account deposit to pay you points on it is by investing it in businsses that produce money.

That is where the money comes from.


Ecmandu wrote:
origami wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:if Steve Jobs took out a 100,000 dollar loan for Apple, the bank doesn’t make billions of it... it makes about 3,000 dollars.


That is not how it works either. If they charged only as much from their investments as they paid on their deposits, they would go broke in days, because many businesses go broke and are unable to pay back the loan.


That’s not true either. The interest becomes higher with bankruptcies ... and your credit score tanks.

Are you really having this discussion to defend trump?


And this has exactly what to do with Roe being overturned?

Why don't the two of you take that here: https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.p ... 27s+corner

:lol: [-o< =D>
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And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:25 pm

Iambiguous is actually making good points for once and this is the dumbest derail.
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:31 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Iambiguous is actually making good points for once and this is the dumbest derail.


Thanks. And no consents were aborted.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:31 pm

I'll stop it too if you admit that Biden is a corrupt swindler and that banks need to make money as much as anybody else.
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:37 pm

origami wrote:I'll stop it too if you admit that Biden is a corrupt swindler and that banks need to make money as much as anybody else.


Even not for profits need to make money. What’s your fucking point? You’re just wrong about how they do it.

I don’t believe there’s a Biden crime syndicate.

Not on the known scale of Trump.

I already told you after some research that I think Hunter is a high level sociopath.

I think Biden has dementia.

Those are the cards dealt to us.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:40 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Even not for profits need to make money. What’s your fucking point? You’re just wrong about how they do it.


I am right about how they do it. Businesses make money.

Ecmandu wrote:I don’t believe there’s a Biden crime syndicate.


You do so in the face of the evidence.

Ecmandu wrote:Not on the known scale of Trump.


Trump was a billionaire before having any political influence to leverage.

Ecmandu wrote:I already told you after some research that I think Hunter is a high level sociopath.


That is cruel, Hunter just has an abusive dad an a disease called addiction.

Ecmandu wrote:Those are the cards dealt to us.


Nobody is forcing you to ignore evidence, think with your emotions, and contradict yourself openly and repeatedly, as long as it advances your lunatic leftist goals.
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:53 am

From PN:

phyllo wrote:
How is becoming pregnant unintentionally not becoming a slave to your body when the alternative to being forced to give birth is being charged with first degree murder? Though, sure, I can imagine any number of men might find that hyperbolic.
"slave to your body"??

You realize that men age, men get diseases, men die.


Yes, and when they do, they are permitted to seek out doctors for help. Imagine if there was a law that forbade them from doing this? Becoming pregnant can devastate a woman's life. Her mental health, her physical heath, her job, her education. But in the red states the option to seek out the medical community is now off the table. Or they can choose the back-alley option. And, if they survive that, they might find themselves arrested and charged with first degree murder.

Let's just say that you and I have very different takes on how many women view this ruling. If they become pregnant unintentionally, many will almost certainty feel enslaved by their biology. That it is a different kind of slavery isn't likely to console them.

But that was the whole point of Roe v. Wade...to keep the objectivists from both ends of the political spectrum at bay. To give both sides something but no one side everything.

Now the Catholic majority on the Supreme Court will twist the Constitution into but another chapter of the Bible. Their Bible of course..


phyllo wrote: The original Roe v Wade wasn't an objectivist decision? Didn't it impose the values of a handful of judges on the entire country? Really?


Look, I'm not arguing that there aren't objectivists on both sides of the political spectrum. But in regard to something as traumatic for women [and only women] as confronting an unwanted pregnancy, should the laws favor the extremist views [no abortions whatsoever vs. abortion on demand] or strive for something in the middle.

Then the conflicting arguments above regarding abortion and the Constitution.

phyllo wrote: Letting the states decide seems much more democratic.


Right. And no hypocrisy, of course. If the state passes laws that reflect your own political prejudices, more power to them. But if they pass laws that you detest then invoke the Constitution to stop them.

Something like that?


phyllo wrote: That seems to be what you are doing.

You're all for moderation, compromise, democracy and rule of law. Or so you say.

But now that the SC bumps the decision on abortion to the states, you seem to want a federally imposed decision allowing abortion. On the other hand, you're terrified that there might be a federally imposed ban on abortion.


How preposterous is this!!

The red states aren't interested in laws that are aimed in the general direction of moderation, negotiation and compromise. They want draconian laws that allow only the right-wing extremists to prevail.

Only they want those right-wing extremists to prevail in all fifty states!

phyllo wrote: As long as you get what you want. You don't really need democracy. Right?


Again, with Roe, both sides got something. With this Supreme Court, their side gets everything.

They merely insist it has nothing to do with their religious and political prejudices. It's all about what Washington and Jefferson and the rest of the Founding Fathers meant to convey in the Constitution about explosive issues like abortion.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:15 am

I like this side of you iambiguous.

Don’t mistake it for me being Pavlovian.

For a woman who doesn’t want to carry to term, the child is nothing but a parasite.

Doesn’t matter what the reason is.

Phyllo, try dealing with ‘demonic’ possessions for a day and tell me how valuable they are to you?

Same.

Just parasites. And these are full grown spirits. Just parasites.
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The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:36 pm

Ecmandu wrote:That’s not true either. The interest becomes higher with bankruptcies ... and your credit score tanks.


I had missed this, and just wanted to point out the incoherence of suggesting that a party that has gone bankrupt and has no more money to pay back the loan with will somehow continue to pay the loan and with even higher interests. This is leftist intellectual rigour at work.

The intrest rates climb for people who have gone bankrupt for future loans. It is higher because they already defaulted on a loan in the past, and left the bank holding the bag. That loan on which they went bankrupt was not paid, and the bank lost the money they loaned them.

Are you following or am I not being clear enough? Or is it not convenient for your "I hate everybody and don't care if they die" spiritual ultradimension reset agenda?
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:49 pm

origami wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:That’s not true either. The interest becomes higher with bankruptcies ... and your credit score tanks.


I had missed this, and just wanted to point out the incoherence of suggesting that a party that has gone bankrupt and has no more money to pay back the loan with will somehow continue to pay the loan and with even higher interests. This is leftist intellectual rigour at work.

The intrest rates climb for people who have gone bankrupt for future loans. It is higher because they already defaulted on a loan in the past, and left the bank holding the bag. That loan on which they went bankrupt was not paid, and the bank lost the money they loaned them.

Are you following or am I not being clear enough? Or is it not convenient for your "I hate everybody and don't care if they die" spiritual ultradimension reset agenda?


https://www.thebalance.com/how-banks-make-money-315473

The investment strategy that you outline is too risky for the FDIC laws. They just modulate the interest.

Of course, if they fail, the president bails them out with taxpayer dollars. Banks take zero risk.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:51 pm

If I offer you a loan, and you go broke, and cannot pay the loan, how do I get the money back by "modulating the interest?"

If you go broke, and have no money, how do you pay back any part of the loan?
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:10 pm

origami wrote:If I offer you a loan, and you go broke, and cannot pay the loan, how do I get the money back by "modulating the interest?"

If you go broke, and have no money, how do you pay back any part of the loan?


Underwriting is factored into the interest. But more than that, banks will seize all your stuff.

If you have no ‘stuff’, and they do check your assets...

No loan.
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The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:34 pm

What if you sold all your stuff to try to save your business and lost it all? There is nothing for them to seize? What if what they seize is worth less than what you owed them?

No amount of underwriting will get them that money.
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:12 am

origami wrote:What if you sold all your stuff to try to save your business and lost it all? There is nothing for them to seize? What if what they seize is worth less than what you owed them?

No amount of underwriting will get them that money.


You don’t seem to understand what I’m saying.

Without assets, banks will not give you a loan.

When banks did predatory lending... the banks defaulted, and they were bailed out by Obama.

What ended up being the result is that the banks claimed all the assets - which drastically increased wealth inequality.

The tax payers paid for having their own assets being seized for pennies on the dollar!

Banks can’t lose.

For example...

Chase was given 70 billion in bailout money.
The purpose was to reimburse all their customers.

Chase didn’t spend a penny of that on customers... they used that money to branch out to the Midwest and west.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:59 am

No, it is you who are not understanding, because you are thinking with your propaganda brain, instead of your thinking brain.

If I get a loan. Let's say a mortgage loan, so a loan secured by a house. I go broke, default, and the bank has to seize the house. The real estate market collapses, the house is now worth less then half of what you owed.

That's first.

Second, banks will give you a loan without assets. There are many ways, lines of credit, credit cards, business loan, etc. If you have good credit, which is why credit mattrs at all, banks will take more of a risk on you. If they made enough money with just the asset, they wouldn't give you a loan, and just buy the asset. Think about it.

Third, in a catastrophe scenario, like when a government regulation put in place to make sure housing remained affordable mandated the government to secure all mortgage loans so that the banks would make riskier loans to less affluent individuals until even the government couldn't cover all the losses and the banks started goin broke, the money they then bail the banks out with is not magic money. It comes from businesses, treasury bonds, money that is printed and so indirectly taken from the pockets of every single person with dollars, tax revenue. All that money has to be made by a business, or it doesn't exist. That is who ultimately bailed out the banks, every business that lent the government money or generated tax revenue for the government or gave value to the money the government printed.



Please pause right now. Block the propaganda process that by now has begun in your brain. Press ESC, CTR ALT DLT. End the process. Refresh the machine. Now think. If I loan you money, it is possible you cannot pay me back. If I secure the loan with an asset of yours, I still need more money than the asset is worth, because if not I would just buy the asset and not bother with the loan. If I only give secured loans, I will not make enough money to cover all the deposits in the bank. In all cases, whatever money is paid to the bank is either from a business that generated it, or assets that were bought with money that was generated from a business.

Stop. End the process again. CTR ALT DELTE. Read it again.
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:23 am

By the way, tax money also doesn't just sit in a vault. It goes to the treasury, which invests it in loans they give out, or in securities they buy. The treasury can also have money outside of tax revenue, by issuing bonds.

The way the Federal Reserve decides monetary policy is by taking that gigantic chunk of money extorted from honest hard working citizens and lend it out to banks at a rate they decide. Those banks then lend it out to you and me at rates that have to be at least higher than the Federal Reserve rates, or they go broke. The Federal Reserve can also use that big chunk of money extorted from honest hard working citizens to directly inject cash into ventures they deem appropriate, what they call "stimulus." They can also just print money and loan that out to banks, by doing so devaluing all the other money that exists. They provide the government with however much money they ask, by any of these means I mentioned at their disposal.

That is who bailed out the banks. They did it using tax revenue extorted from businesses, or people whose money ultimately came from a business venture, that was invested in other businesses, or with money they borrowed from businesses with treasury bonds.

Are you following? Did you take a break from your hyperdimensional people hating to pay attention?
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:33 am

A predatory loan is the opposite of what you are saying. A normal loan is when the asset you pledge is less than the value of the loan. If the asset is worth more than the loan, that is what they call predatory, because I am lending it to you betting that you will go broke and I will have the asset, which is worth more than the loan. Even then, the asset will have a value that is variable at a different rate than simple money I could have got. even a pawn shop, the ultimate predator, can pawn something for you, you default, and then they are not able to sell it. Even pawn shops go broke.
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:37 am

There is no sure thing. If there was a sure thing, everybody would be rich.

Billion dollar enterprises rutinely go broke. Billion dollar worth persons rutinely go broke.

A bank is not a sure thing, because a bank gets its money from businesses, which can always go broke.

That is why communist countries always lose money compared to free countries. They operate on the assumption that there is a sure thing, and evil capitalists are just hiding it from you. But they are not, China only makes money by selling to Free market places, by allowing free market investment. The central planners analyze situations and take risk, like any business has to. Central planners in China do not have a guaranteed revenue. They have to make plans, subsidize steel and destroy the US steel industry, impose tarifs on US goods, invest in research, have research ventures fail. Their economy goes up and down like anyones as business ventures succeed or fail.

Do you see? Do you understand? There is no money tree.
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:38 am

The closest thing to a sure thing is a government, because they take a gun and steal the money, period. But even for them, if there is no more money to steal, they go broke too. If another government invades them, they cannot anymore steal, the new govenrment will steal. Governments even run that risk.

If you want a sure thing, put a bullet in a revolver and put it to your head and pull the trigger.
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:02 am

What’s the largest private bank in the world?

Watch and learn:

https://youtu.be/h7ZztkVZXoc
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:05 am

In one ear and out the other. That is why you are losing your grip on power.

Nobody is buyng this shit anymore.
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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:48 am

origami wrote:In one ear and out the other. That is why you are losing your grip on power.

Nobody is buyng this shit anymore.


Can’t handle it can you? Truth. Responding to infallible logic.

You never were very good at that.

Then you make it an issue of power?

Power over another sends you to deep hell.

Get your head out of the gutter.

It’s a kind warning. You’ll find your match and greater.

You need to transcend to avoid.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

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Re: ROE overturned.. a bad day in America

Postby origami » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:50 am

Responding to infallible logic with a link to something you do not even understand, is not truth. It is stubbornly preferring to submit to authority via propaganda than take a half second to reason for yourself.
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