a challenge to conservatives..

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a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:13 pm

Ok, you got your wish, Roe v Wade is gone, now what?
what is the end game? How do you envision this going?

So, I challenge conservatives to lay out their vision of
America in 10 years? What do you want to see happen?
End homosexual marriage? repeal all law approving weed?
According to you, what is next?

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby MagsJ » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:40 pm

_
I asked Americans why the outcry over abortions.. it costs the American taxpayer a lot of money, they replied.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:45 pm

MagsJ wrote:_
I asked Americans why the outcry over abortions.. it costs the American taxpayer a lot of money, they replied.


K: and thus we get to the real faith of American's.. we pray to money..
we hold that life is second to the god of choice, Mammon...
all other values are beneath the lord of all, money and profits...

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby MagsJ » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:36 pm

_
..but there is the pay-as-you-go pharmaceutical route/option, no?

Less messy than the original primitive method, no? What’s wrong with that..? no more abortion clinic cash-cows? I bet their share prices will be dropping.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:00 pm

MagsJ wrote:_
..but there is the pay-as-you-go pharmaceutical route/option, no?

Less messy than the original primitive method, no? What’s wrong with that..? no more abortion clinic cash-cows? I bet their share prices will be dropping.


K: no, no there isn't a pharmaceutical "route" that is the point..
and as far as "abortion clinic cash-cow" I am not sure where
you picked up that nonsense, but clinics have been shut down
all over this country.... the don't engage in "stocks"... they
are engaged with women's health issues.. as woman, I would think
that you feel that abortion rights are health care rights, and all people,
male or female, deserve proper health care.. unless you don't care
about people getting proper health care?

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:56 am

MagsJ wrote:_
..but there is the pay-as-you-go pharmaceutical route/option, no?

Less messy than the original primitive method, no? What’s wrong with that..? no more abortion clinic cash-cows? I bet their share prices will be dropping.


planned parenthood doesn't have stock, and they survive mostly on donations, and are the largest provider of women's healthcare services in the country, abortions being only a small part of what they do. they're affordable for everyone and not in the game of making big corporation style money.

the issue here is for one, that each woman ought be allowed to make the choice for herself. aside from that, many of the right wing states are now passing laws that ban abortion even in cases of ectopic pregnancies and that do not have exemptions for cases of rape or incest.

if a woman is going to die as a result of an ectopic pregnancy, it should not be a criminal violation for her to have that pregnancy terminated and save her life. if a woman is raped, or impregnanted by a family member, she should not be criminalized for ending that pregnancy.
pending
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:41 pm

[quote="Peter Kropotkin"]Ok, you got your wish, Roe v Wade is gone, now what?
what is the end game? How do you envision this going?

So, I challenge conservatives to lay out their vision of
America in 10 years? What do you want to see happen?
End homosexual marriage? repeal all law approving weed?
According to you, what is next?

K: well conservatives, do you have any type of vision for
the future or are you just making shit up as you go along?
I know my answer but prove me wrong...

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:01 pm

well conservatives, do you have any type of vision for
the future or are you just making shit up as you go along?
I know my answer but prove me wrong...


You are starting with the premise that other people can convince you that you're wrong within a relatively short period of time.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:24 pm

K; well conservatives, do you have any type of vision for
the future or are you just making shit up as you go along?
I know my answer but prove me wrong...''

M; You are starting with the premise that other people can convince you that you're wrong within a relatively short period of time.''

K: so, no you have no vision of the future...you simply ''ad hoc''
all your beliefs.... make it up as you go along, or as I have called
it earlier, ''situational ethics".. the situation dictates the ethics...
and that is great.. at least have the courage to admit that you have
no idea what you're doing.., short term or long term...

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Motor Daddy » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:32 pm

The term "Conservative" is code for Christian. The Christian majority in the U.S. are FORCING all people in the U.S. to live according to the Christian beliefs and values.

The overturn of Roe v Wade is not about a women's right to choose to them, it's about CHRISTIANS FORCING ALL PEOPLE to live according to their religious beliefs.
Christian woman support the decision, so it is NOT a man v woman thing, it is a CHRISTIAN THING!

If Christians get their way the country will be forced to live according to the Christian way of life. They will teach their BS to kids in schools, and continue to spread their BS to as many people as possible like the virus that it is.

"In God we trust, all others pay CASH!"
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:43 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:The term "Conservative" is code for Christian. The Christian majority in the U.S. are FORCING all people in the U.S. to live according to the Christian beliefs and values.

The overturn of Roe v Wade is not about a women's right to choose to them, it's about CHRISTIANS FORCING ALL PEOPLE to live according to their religious beliefs.
Christian woman support the decision, so it is NOT a man v woman thing, it is a CHRISTIAN THING!

If Christians get their way the country will be forced to live according to the Christian way of life. They will teach their BS to kids in schools, and continue to spread their BS to as many people as possible like the virus that it is.


K: agreed, but what is the "end game"... what does all of this aim for?
To turn America into a western version of Iran? To make America
a "Christian theocracy?" What is the goal?

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:29 pm

Kropotkin wrote:so, no you have no vision of the future...you simply ''ad hoc''
all your beliefs.... make it up as you go along, or as I have called
it earlier, ''situational ethics".. the situation dictates the ethics...
and that is great.. at least have the courage to admit that you have
no idea what you're doing.., short term or long term...


The way you interact with other people betrays you.

Motor Daddy wrote:The Christian majority in the U.S. are FORCING all people in the U.S. to live according to the Christian beliefs and values.


Is that really true?

The overturn of Roe v Wade is not about a women's right to choose to them, it's about CHRISTIANS FORCING ALL PEOPLE to live according to their religious beliefs.
Christian woman support the decision, so it is NOT a man v woman thing, it is a CHRISTIAN THING!


Up until now, no state was allowed to ban abortion during the first couple of months of pregnancy. Everyone had to live under the same set of rules. Right now, you have blue states that allow abortion and red states that do not. So who exactly is forcing everyone to live according to the same set of rules?

If Christians get their way the country will be forced to live according to the Christian way of life. They will teach their BS to kids in schools, and continue to spread their BS to as many people as possible like the virus that it is.


If.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:37 pm

Peter Kropotkin:
but what is the "end game" for conservatives?... what does all of this aim for?
To turn America into a western version of Iran? To make America
a "Christian theocracy?" What is the goal?
so, what is the endgame? Is that so hard to explain?

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:44 pm

What makes you think there is an endgame?

Maybe the only aim of conservatives is to do what they think is right at any given moment to the extent permitted by law.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:47 pm

The end game, they would tell you, is to restore democracy -- among other things.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Motor Daddy » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:58 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:Up until now, no state was allowed to ban abortion during the first couple of months of pregnancy. Everyone had to live under the same set of rules. Right now, you have blue states that allow abortion and red states that do not. So who exactly is forcing everyone to live according to the same set of rules?


No state allowed to ban abortion means everyone has the right to choose. It is FREEDOM of choice. Nobody is FORCED to do anything they do not want to do. If you want an abortion you get one. If you don't want an abortion you don't get one.

Each person decides for themselves whether abortion is an option or not.

For states to be allowed to make abortion against the law is FORCING people to live by their rule.

If SCOTUS left it up to the states to decide for themselves whether or not to outlaw slavery would that be good with you? SCOTUS wouldn't be FORCING someone to be a slave, would they? (rolls eyes)
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:05 pm

Well, the child is sort of forced to die.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:07 pm

origami wrote:What makes you think there is an endgame?

Maybe the only aim of conservatives is to do what they think is right at any given moment to the extent permitted by law.


K: and therein lies a good deal of the problem with conservatives
and their agenda...it is focused on the right here, right now.....
their vision only extends to the immediate moment ...there is no
sense of the future in their beliefs... to have an impact, every
single action, no matter how large or small, must have some sense
of where does this lead me to? If you don't have any sense of what
you are attempting to get to, then your actions are "ad hoc"... of the
moment... let us think about this example, I want to take a trip..

let us say, I want to travel to San Francisco from my house...
I can drive it in about 45 minutes, depending on traffic, or I can
take a bus, an hour and half easy, or I can take a train, about an
hour depending,.. so, how do I get there without a plan?

I must have a plan to get to San Francisco.. or I won't get there...
for every single journey we take, no matter how large or small,
requires us to have a plan of getting there...
what the conservative has done, is step outside the door,
but then stops, because there is no other plan in place...
so, as part of making America "moral" (whatever that means)
we end abortion, now what? what is the next step and what
destination are we aiming for? if your goal is to "create" a moral
America, then what steps are you going to take to get there
and just as importantly, why this goal and steps, and not other
goals and steps? I don't see any of that going on... just isolated
actions that don't seem to go anywhere.. what is the destination?
and why that destination?

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:08 pm

So you agree that if the issue is what is right right here, right now, conservatives are the ones that are correct?
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:10 pm

And that the left is doing things they consciously know are wrong in order to achieve long term goals?
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:16 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:The end game, they would tell you, is to restore democracy -- among other things.


K: and I see the radical right wing attempting to end democracy..
for example the attempted overthrow of the legitimately elected
president Biden...and the continuation of passing state laws
that allow the GOP/MAGA party to dismiss the popular vote
if it isn't to their liking... several states now have laws in the
books that allow them to overturn the popular will of the people
by overturning the vote count and declaring another winner,
regardless of the actual vote.. Arizona, Georgia, Arkansas,
Texas, Montana, and Florida are states with laws in place...
and how is that practicing democracy?

no, the radical right wing is engaged in "cooking'' the books in
order to win elections.. and how is that "obeying" the will
of the people, which is how a democracy works...

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:19 pm

origami wrote:So you agree that if the issue is what is right right here, right now, conservatives are the ones that are correct?


K: Not at all... I see them, the right wing,
denying people their personal autonomy.. any time you deny
someone their personal autonomy, you are failing in following
democracy... and individual rights within that democracy...

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:21 pm

But that is not what you said before.

What you said before is that the fault of conservatives is that they focus on what is the right thing to do here and now, and that that would hinder the achievement of long term goals.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:22 pm

origami wrote:And that the left is doing things they consciously know are wrong in order to achieve long term goals?


K: oh boy, so many assumptions here, I cannot even sort them out...

ok, please name me something that "the left is doing things
they consciously know is wrong"... give me a list of things the
left is consciously doing wrong?

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:23 pm

Before I do that, tell me what I assumed that is incorrect? I will retract right away. Thankfully, what you said is recorded in this thread, so we can make reference.
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