a challenge to conservatives..

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:47 pm

That's what I suspected. In that case, the answer is "No".
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Motor Daddy » Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:55 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:Well, it was obvious to me.


Not to me.


Magnus Anderson wrote:Is slavery prohibited by US constitution?


13th Amendment:

https://constitutioncenter.org/interact ... dment-xiii

...and it was ruled by SCOTUS in Roe v Wade that the constitution protected the right to abortion. CASE CLOSED!

Now all of a sudden a bunch of self-righteous religious judges overturn the ruling.

How about they overturn the 13th amendment, with reason that the 13th amendment is not “deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition.”

After all, slavery was deeply rooted since the beginning! (rolls eyes)

The argument that abortion is not deeply rooted is MORONIC! What that is saying is that we should return to the old days, when slavery was legal, because that is deeply rooted!!
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:04 pm

Well, the case is not closed.

The Supreme Court is bound by the constitution, not by previous decisions of the Supreme Court. It usually abides by previous decisions, but it must be allowed to disavow them if it, the highest legal authority, considers it to have been faulty.

They give their reasons why they considered it faulty, you can find it here, it's not long or worded in any complicated way: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/2 ... 2_6j37.pdf
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:04 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:Right, because it is taking a right away, effectively FORCING the people to live by a rule that denies their right to choose.


When you ban something on a state level, such as abortion, you are not necessarily forcing anyone to obey that law e.g. if people approve of it, you are not forcing them to obey it.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:05 pm

They cite this example:

Some of our most important constitutional decisions have
overruled prior precedents. We mention three. In Brown
v. Board of Education, 347 U. S. 483 (1954), the Court re-
pudiated the “separate but equal” doctrine, which had al-
lowed States to maintain racially segregated schools and
other facilities. Id., at 488 (internal quotation marks omit-
ted). In so doing, the Courtoverruled the infamous decision
in Plessy v. Ferguson, 163 U. S. 537 (1896), along with six
other Supreme Court precedents that had applied the
separate-but-equal rule. See Brown, 347 U. S., at 491.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:06 pm

Unless you believe, Motor Daddy, that school segregation should be protected by the constitution.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Motor Daddy » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:06 pm

origami wrote:Well, the case is not closed.

The Supreme Court is bound by the constitution, not by previous decisions of the Supreme Court.


That is circular! The Supreme Court made the ruling according to the constitution in Roe v Wade. CASE CLOSED!
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:07 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:...and it was ruled by SCOTUS in Roe v Wade that the constitution protected the right to abortion. CASE CLOSED!


Yes and mathematicians said "0.999... = 1". CASE CLOSED!
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:09 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:
origami wrote:Well, the case is not closed.

The Supreme Court is bound by the constitution, not by previous decisions of the Supreme Court.


That is circular! The Supreme Court made the ruling according to the constitution in Roe v Wade. CASE CLOSED!


It's not circular, because the Supreme Court doesn't write the constitution.

That is the affair of the people through its elected representatives.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:09 pm

You haven't answered about school segregation.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:11 pm

The Supreme Court had ruled that segregation was protected by the constitution. It later revised these opinions based on nothing other than the constitution, no legislation had changed.

Do you believe they should have left school segregation up to the states because a previous decision had upheld the states' rights to do so?
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Motor Daddy » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:13 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:
When you ban something on a state level, such as abortion, you are not necessarily forcing anyone to obey that law e.g. if people approve of it, you are not forcing them to obey it.


Yes you are! Whether you approve of a law is irrelevant. If you break a law you approve of you still go to jail! You are being FORCED to obey the law, and if you don't you will be arrested and put in jail!

If you approve of DWI laws, and then go drinking and driving and are pulled over, you DO NOT get off by telling the officer that you approve of DWI laws. NO, he gives you a sobriety test and hauls you off to jail, all the while you approve of DWI laws! You sit in jail and call your lawyer and tell him you don't understand why they took you to jail, because you agree with the law!

Here's a clue: Johnny Law does not care what you believe. If you break the law they will throw you in jail!
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:14 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:If you approve of DWI laws, and then go drinking and driving and are pulled over, you DO NOT get off by telling the officer that you approve of DWI laws.


You also don't get off by telling them they are violating your right to liberty, or that nature doesn't care.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:15 pm

Please answer about segregation.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Motor Daddy » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:15 pm

origami wrote:It's not circular, because the Supreme Court doesn't write the constitution.



It was SCOTUS that interpreted the Constitution as protecting the right to abortion in Roe v Wade.

So you are claiming A SCOTUS decision is worthless. If not, then the first ruling STANDS!
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:16 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:If not, then the first ruling STANDS!


What you are saying implies that you approve of the constitution protecting states' rights to enforce segregation.

What the Supreme Court is saying is that mistakes are possible, and mechanisms must exist to amend them.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:17 pm

The reference can only be the constitution, not previous decisions, not what some arbitrary person thinks is right, and not "nature."
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Motor Daddy » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:21 pm

origami wrote:You also don't get off by telling them they are violating your right to liberty, or that nature doesn't care.


"Anything you say can and will be used AGAINST YOU in a court of law!"
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:23 pm

While an opinion of the Supreme Court carries significant authority, it is only ever an opinion, and the true authority lies in the constitution.

The task of the Supreme Court is to determine what the constitution says, how it is meant, and how it applies. If, after cunducting the necessary investigations, it finds that a previous ruling contradicts its findings, it evidently must find these rulings void, otherwise it is not the constitution that is the highest law of the land, but the will of Supreme Court justices.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:24 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:
origami wrote:You also don't get off by telling them they are violating your right to liberty, or that nature doesn't care.


"Anything you say can and will be used AGAINST YOU in a court of law!"


Why will you not answer about segregation?
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Motor Daddy » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:27 pm

origami wrote:
What the Supreme Court is saying is that mistakes are possible, and mechanisms must exist to amend them.


Mistakes? How about straight up corruption, is that possible?

Is SCOTUS allowed to let their religious mental illness dominate their decisions that affect non-religious people's lives? Do they get to make decisions based on their faith?

Here we have a classic example of a "sloppy drunk" mentally ill faith based judge making decisions that negatively affect the entire population of the U.S.

I'll say that again, a mentally ill sloppy drunk ruining people's lives!
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby origami » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:30 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:Mistakes? How about straight up corruption, is that possible?


I suppose it is. Do you think the justices in Roe v Wade were comprimised?

Motor Daddy wrote:Is SCOTUS allowed to let their religious mental illness dominate their decisions that affect non-religious people's lives?


No reference is made to religion in the ruling. Did you read it?

Motor Daddy wrote:Here we have a classic example of a "sloppy drunk" mentally ill faith based judge making decisions that negatively affect the entire population of the U.S.


That is your opinion. Based on logic that, so far, has proved hazy, emotion based, inconsistent, and arbitrary.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:30 pm

Motor Daddy wrote:Yes you are! Whether you approve of a law is irrelevant. If you break a law you approve of you still go to jail! You are being FORCED to obey the law, and if you don't you will be arrested and put in jail!

If you approve of DWI laws, and then go drinking and driving and are pulled over, you DO NOT get off by telling the officer that you approve of DWI laws. NO, he gives you a sobriety test and hauls you off to jail, all the while you approve of DWI laws! You sit in jail and call your lawyer and tell him you don't understand why they took you to jail, because you agree with the law!

Here's a clue: Johnny Law does not care what you believe. If you break the law they will throw you in jail!


I think you misunderstood what I meant by "approve of a law". If you tell people that "If I drive too fast, I should be sent to jail", then, when you get caught driving too fast and police officers jail you, you are not being forced to obey SOMEONE ELSE'S will, you are being forced to obey YOUR will. That's what it means to approve of a law.
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Motor Daddy » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:37 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:I think you misunderstood what I meant by "approve of a law". If you tell people that "If I drive too fast, I should be sent to jail", then, when you get caught driving too fast and police officers jail you, you are not being forced to obey SOMEONE ELSE'S will, you are being forced to obey YOUR will. That's what it means to approve of a law.


Oh, so they are forcing me to go to jail because it is my will? Are you for real?

People in power make laws and you are forced to obey them or pay the price, whether you agree with them or not.

It's outrageous to claim they are throwing me in jail because I disobeyed MY WILL.

So if there is no law against drunk driving, and an officer pulls me over, I should expect to be taken to jail because I don't believe drinking and driving is the right thing to do, even though I am doing that very thing?

Should I demand that the officer take me to jail even though there is no law against drunk driving, on the grounds that I believe what I was doing was wrong? (rolls eyes)
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Re: a challenge to conservatives..

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:12 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:what is the end game? How do you envision this going?

Kropotkin

The end game is to bring back Slavery.













































































Not for black people........



































































































But to make Liberals slaves of Conservatives. You will be owned by a Conservative family. You will own Nothing. And you will be Happy.

Unironically, I believe Liberals would be happier this way, since Liberals cannot be morally responsible for themselves or others.
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