The EPA

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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:36 am

origami wrote:I think a more interesting question first is the one i asked first in the OP, which is where the limit currently in actuallity is.


As it stands, I think most people would agree that the EPA's role is to regulate facilities with the ability to produce nauxeous fumes or pollutants, such that the emission of these pollutants is reasonable in terms of the possibly affected people.
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:37 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:like is this real


It's more a matter of the definition you gave of what the EPA should do. It's vague to the point that it can easily include handing out death sentences to smokers. That too is real. Definitions are real.
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Re: The EPA

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:37 am

i'm sorry i didn't think it was necessary to stipulate that i didn't mean for the epa to execute cigarette smokers
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Re: The EPA

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:38 am

origami wrote:
origami wrote:I think a more interesting question first is the one i asked first in the OP, which is where the limit currently in actuallity is.


As it stands, I think most people would agree that the EPA's role is to regulate facilities with the ability to produce nauxeous fumes or pollutants, such that the emission of these pollutants is reasonable in terms of the possibly affected people.



what about cap and trade? good or bad?
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:39 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:i'm sorry i didn't think it was necessary to stipulate that i didn't mean for the epa to execute cigarette smokers



Yes but I'm not a mind reader. I have no idea what it does include in your head. As a definition on paper, it inculdes executing smokers easily. No stretch is required.
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Re: The EPA

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:40 am

it's definitely a stretch to go from cleanup superfund sites to murder cigarette smokers
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Re: The EPA

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:40 am

also you should work on your mind reading. it's a life skill
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:41 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:it's definitely a stretch to go from cleanup superfund sites to murder cigarette smokers


Right, so how would you define that limit, so that we don't have to define the EPA as "an organization that reads Smear's mind and acts accordingly?"
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Re: The EPA

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:44 am

i'm ok with the limit of not killing smokers. but not with a limit that doesn't allow for cleaning up superfund sites and holding accountable those whose actions are plainly destructive to public health
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:44 am

Very vague.
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:45 am

I'm sure you can appreciate that no sane organization could operate under those principles.
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Re: The EPA

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:47 am

maybe you can show me how to draw a line that isn't too vague for your taste, or how to measure the sanity of an organization.
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:48 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:i'm ok with the limit of not killing smokers. but not with a limit that doesn't allow for cleaning up superfund sites and holding accountable those whose actions are plainly destructive to public health


It's unreasonable to call this vague?
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:48 am

Why not "an organization that stops bad things from happening?"
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:49 am

We still have no idea what you think the EPA should do.
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Re: The EPA

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:49 am

origami wrote:
Mr Reasonable wrote:i'm ok with the limit of not killing smokers. but not with a limit that doesn't allow for cleaning up superfund sites and holding accountable those whose actions are plainly destructive to public health


It's unreasonable to call this vague?



yes
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:50 am

That is an insult to your own intelligence.
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Re: The EPA

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:52 am

origami wrote:Why not "an organization that stops bad things from happening?"


if your objection is that my answer is vague, i don't understand why you would make a statement that is even more vague. it seems like your issue is that you want maximum specificity about a regulatory agency's role and you want it on a web forum. taken to the extreme, we'd end up debating the minutia of hundreds of pages of regulation/law/and notes from rulemaking sessions.

for what?
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Re: The EPA

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:53 am

origami wrote:That is an insult to your own intelligence.


i think you're hung up on the vagueness thing. you asked for some limits so i gave you a top and bottom line to work with. yes to cleaning up superfund sites, no to killing smokers. move them around if you like, but there's a framework that is by it's nature, not vague.
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:53 am

Lol I just want something a little better than "stops bad things from happening."
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:54 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:but there's a framework that is by it's nature, not vague.


What is the framework?
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Re: The EPA

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:54 am

origami wrote:We still have no idea what you think the EPA should do.



at the very least, they should administer the cleanup of superfund sites. i thought that was clear
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:55 am

It really isn't.

As far as we know, you think the EPA should be a one off operation to deal with that particular situation.
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Re: The EPA

Postby origami » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:55 am

origami wrote:It really isn't.

As far as we know, you think the EPA should be a one off operation to deal with that particular situation.


And we don't even know how you think they should deal with it.
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Re: The EPA

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:56 am

origami wrote:
Mr Reasonable wrote:but there's a framework that is by it's nature, not vague.


What is the framework?


yes clean up superfund sites. no to killing smokers.

that's 2 limits. between them are all sorts of things, outside them are all sorts of things. but you've got 2 points to work with when deciding what you think the epa should and shouldn't do. so to that extent we have eliminated the vagueness that has plagued you thus far in the thread
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