Signs

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Re: Signs

Postby Meno_ » Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:44 pm

Before even seeing this: contemplated the difference between the super and the supranatural: as it applies to Hume's definition to the former as that which violates the Natural, as a starting point.

The direct method cited, are more 'symptomatic' to the underlying investigation, at least from this vantage point.
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Re: Signs

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:50 pm

The Word… and everything in line with it (him…). He’s the source. Self-controlled wild.

“Oooo let’s try a different route!” — that’s like the chick in the scary movie who runs upstairs.

Want death? “Thy will be done” - God

Sartre calls such violations nihil. They don’t even touch the source.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Signs

Postby Meno_ » Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:45 pm

True.The request is not to touch the source only approach it resourcifully , schemetically through the Conter Reformation, the Jesuits, the Council of Trent. See if and how the outer perimeters touched the inner sanctum. It may be much , and beyond a certain scope, but the double wham is there.

There mat be an obliging necessity to the fallacy of the appearance of the protest against miracles, even as presented from direct biblical testimony; not out of a sense of douting sincerely, but out of the stranglehold which the lack of this sense may put on later generations.
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Re: Signs

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:48 am

I hate guessing at what you mean, and I feel like asking you to define terms would just multiply the need for guessing, lol. Is your goal here the opposite of communication? I still don’t know what source/resource means (to you).

If you have questions you can’t ask plainly here, email me their PLAIN versions to [email protected]. Probably only willing to answer some in person in a public (uncrowded) place, though.

If by miracles, you mean the alternative route I referred to in my last reply… the Jesuits & counter-reformation Catholics were/are down with Meister Eckhart?? … I’ma say NO. And there has been much to repair the denominational split Luther never wanted.

I do not choose a denomination.

I took notes on stuff related to miracles/signs and that sense you (maybe) mentioned. Perhaps if you clarify your meaning, I will share them. Remember… I will not entertain anything going back to “Hermes”. Non-negotiable.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Signs

Postby Meno_ » Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:11 am

.
Last edited by Meno_ on Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Signs

Postby Meno_ » Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:12 am

Meno_ wrote:Before even seeing this: contemplated the difference between the super and the supranatural: as it applies to Hume's definition to the former as that which violates the Natural, as a starting point.

The direct method cited, are more 'symptomatic' to the underlying investigation, at least from this vantage point.
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Re: Signs

Postby Meno_ » Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:22 am

Meno_ wrote:
Meno_ wrote:Before even seeing this: contemplated the difference between the super and the supranatural: as it applies to Hume's definition to the former as that which violates the Natural, as a starting point.

The direct method cited, are more 'symptomatic' to the underlying investigation, at least from this vantage point.




I don't even know how this popped up out of a seemingly backward argument, but be as it may; it does support the argument that such deals with the current derivative mentioned above: that is accepting your criteria of evaluating exceptional natural laws violated on basis of those criteria .

But where have such 'miracles' brought us? A veritable excommunication of other than symptomatic relief.
Last edited by Meno_ on Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Signs

Postby MagsJ » Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:37 am

Remember… I will not entertain anything going back to “Hermes”. Non-negotiable.

Lol
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Signs

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:38 am

I read your stuff before you replaced it with a dot.

So. Here’s my super long reply:

.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Signs

Postby Bob » Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:22 am

As far as signs go, language, especially the Hebrew and Aramaic, but also other archaic languages, have many signs flowing within the words, whether spoken or written. Here is an example:
The Peshitta version of John 1:1 uses the Aramaic form for “in the beginning” (b’rishit) that corresponds to the Hebrew word in Genesis 1:1 (b’reshith). To an Aramaic-speaking Jewish Christian this would immediately signal a correspondence with the creation story. The Aramaic version uses melta for “word,” which can also mean a command, or sentence, or something fully formed. If we remember that in Genesis, Elohim “speaks” creation into existence (like Ptah in the Egyptian tradition), then we have another resonance to the Hebrew story. When John 1:5 refers to the light shining in the darkness, again Aramaic forms are used similar to the Hebrew of Genesis 1:2-4 where “darkness was upon the face of the deep” and light burst forth.

One could experience this process – returning to the primeval beginning, entering darkness and bringing light – not simply as a mythic story, but also in one’s awareness. This contemplative practise lies at the heart of the most interpreted passage in the Gospels: Yeshuas interview with Nicodemus, reported in John 3:3-8, in which Yeshua says (KJV): “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God … Except a man be born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God”

For “born again,” the Aramaic version uses the words min d’rish – be born from the beginning – which again uses the same form for archetypal “beginning” as in Genesis 1:1. The word for “water” uses the same form as that in Gensis 1:2, which also means the flowing, chaotic darkness. The Aramaic word for “spirit” can also mean breath, and parallels the Hebrew of Genesis 1:2, when the “Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” These clues show that Jesus advocated that Nicodemus recreate the creation story within himself by returning to the primordial darkness, from which the light first arose, using his own spirit-breath as a vehicle.
Douglas-Klotz, Neil. The hidden Gospel: decoding the spiritual message of the Aramaic Jesus, P.37

The use of well-known verses, which most people will have learnt by heart, invoked an image, a meaning, or even multiple meanings, which flow with the words, which could equally be seen to be a “sign” that Jesus was doing. This was not reduced to miracles, and still evoked the Holy One.
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
When you are out of touch with reality you will easily embrace a delusion, and equally put in doubt the most basic elements of existence. If this reminds you of the mindset of the present day materialist science and philosophy establishments, as well as of the loudest voices in the socio-political debate, we should not be particularly surprised, since they show all the signs of attending with the left hemisphere alone. I live in the hope that that may soon change: for without a change we are lost.
McGilchrist, Iain . The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World (S.562). Perspectiva Press. Kindle-Version.
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Re: Signs

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:32 am

The lamp of your body is your eye. When your eye is sound, your whole body is full of light. For if your whole body is full of light, with no part of it in shadow, it will all be radiant. It will be like having a bright lamp to give you light. But when your eye is evil, your whole body is full of darkness. If all the light you have is darkness, it is dark indeed! So be very careful that your light never becomes darkness. What could someone offer to buy back their soul once they have lost it?

Salt is a very good thing. You are the earth's salt. But if the salt should become tasteless, what can make it salty again? If salt loses its flavour, what can you use to restore it? It is no good for the ground and no good as manure. It is completely useless and can only be thrown out of doors and stamped under foot. People just throw it away. You must have salt in yourselves, and live at peace with each other. So be careful how you live. For everyone will be salted by fire. Everyone who has ears should use them!

Alas for you, hypocritical scribes and Pharisees! For you are like unmarked graves. People walk over your corruption without knowing it is there. You are like whitewashed tombs, which look fine on the outside but inside are full of dead people's bones and all kinds of rottenness. For you appear like good people on the outside, but inside you are a mass of pretence and wickedness.


Listen to me now, all of you, and understand this. There is nothing outside a person which can enter into them and make them "common" or unclean. It is the things which come out of a person that make them "common" or unclean! Can't you see that anything that goes into a person from outside cannot make them "common" or unclean? You see, it doesn't go into their heart, but into their stomach, and passes out of the body altogether, so that all food is clean enough.

But whatever comes out of a person, that is what makes them "common" or unclean. For it is from inside, from their hearts and minds, that evil thoughts arise out of a people’s mouths - lust, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, arrogance and folly! All these evil things come from inside a person and make them unclean! These are the things which make a person unclean, not eating without washing their hands properly!

What miserable frauds you are, you scribes and Pharisees! You Pharisees are fond of cleaning the outside of your cups and dishes, but inside yourselves you are full of greed and wicked self-indulgence! Have you no sense? Don't you realize that the one who made the outside is the maker of the inside as well? Can't you see, Pharisee?
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Signs

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:37 am

Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." A.sk + S.eek + K.nock = A.S.K.

What a cowinkidink.
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Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Signs

Postby Bob » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:13 pm

The word for body used in these occasions in Aramaic also means corpse or flesh – the purely physical stuff of a human being, without the living breath. The word for eye can also mean face, or the surface of something that expresses an inner essence, but curiously also look, view, opinion, appearance.
Ichthus77 wrote:The lamp of your body is your eye. When your eye is sound, your whole body is full of light. For if your whole body is full of light, with no part of it in shadow, it will all be radiant. It will be like having a bright lamp to give you light. But when your eye is evil, your whole body is full of darkness. If all the light you have is darkness, it is dark indeed! So be very careful that your light never becomes darkness. What could someone offer to buy back their soul once they have lost it?

The word for darkness evokes the primordial darkness in Genesis 1:2 into which the divine light shines.

Douglas-Klotz transliterates the saying from the Aramaic:
the degree of your illumination – your understanding of all that is – shines through your eyes, your face, and all you do. When your expression is straight and expansive, without holding back, like light through a clear lens, then everything you embody shows the same flash of intelligence that helped create the world.

But when your expression is veiled, the eye cloudy and darting, the action at the wrong time and place, what you embody of light and understanding will be chaotic, swirling, obscure. Your non-understanding then participates in the primal darkness of the cosmos.

Take care in this circumstance: when the light in you actually becomes darkness, then it is no longer light: when your understanding loses its clarity or becomes lost in complexity, it cannot claim to be teaching or illumination.

Pay attention that you use clear understanding for what is straightforward, able to be taught. Use veiling and darkness for what is circular, indirect, only able to be suggested.


Jesus is therefore saying that we should allow ourselves to be “illuminated” so that it shines forth in all we do. We shouldn’t allow that light to be darkened, because we then lose ourselves in the primordial darkness.

He says the same thing then using salt as his metaphor.
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
When you are out of touch with reality you will easily embrace a delusion, and equally put in doubt the most basic elements of existence. If this reminds you of the mindset of the present day materialist science and philosophy establishments, as well as of the loudest voices in the socio-political debate, we should not be particularly surprised, since they show all the signs of attending with the left hemisphere alone. I live in the hope that that may soon change: for without a change we are lost.
McGilchrist, Iain . The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World (S.562). Perspectiva Press. Kindle-Version.
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Re: Signs

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:35 pm

Come, and you will see. I have come into the world as light, so that no one who believes in me need remain in the dark. I must tell the good news of the kingdom of God; that is my mission. So you must change your hearts and minds and believe the good news of the forgiveness of sins proclaimed in the Christ’s name to all nations, for the time has come at last - the kingdom of God has arrived.

I am the world's light as long as I am in it. Night is coming when no one can work. There are twelve hours of daylight every day, are there not? You must believe in the light while you have the light, that you may become the sons and daughters of light. For the one who walks in the dark at night has no idea where they are going. They stumble because they cannot see where they are going. Go on while the light is good, before the darkness comes down upon you.

For judgment I came into this world, that those who cannot see have their eyes opened and those who think they can see become blind. This is the judgment: that light has entered the world and people have preferred darkness to light because their deeds are evil. If you were blind nobody could blame you, but, as you insist "We can see”, your guilt remains. The man who hates me, hates my Father as well. If I had not come and spoken to them and done among them things that no other man has ever done, they would not have been guilty of sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. As it is they have seen and they have hated both me and my Father. Yet this only fulfills what is written in their Law: "They hated me without a cause". Anybody who does wrong hates the light and keeps away from it, for fear their deeds may be exposed. But anybody who is living by the truth will come to the light to make it plain that all they have done has been done through God.

There is nothing hidden which is not meant to be made perfectly plain one day, and there are no secrets which are not meant one day to be common knowledge, clear as daylight. For there is nothing covered up which is not going to be exposed, nor anything private which is not going to be made public. The things I tell you in the dark you must say in the daylight. Whatever you may say in the dark will be heard in daylight, and whatever you whisper within four walls and the things you hear in your private ear you must proclaim and shout from the housetops. I have always spoken quite openly to the world. I have always taught in the synagogue or in the Temple where all the Jews meet together, and I have said nothing in secret. If a person has ears they should use them!

You must be ready dressed and have your lamps alight, like those who wait to welcome their lord and master on his return from the wedding feast, so that when he comes and knocks at the door, they may open it for him at once.

I am giving you this warning before it happens. Never follow people like that. For the day of the Son of Man will be like lightning flashing from one end of the sky to the other.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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