theodicy

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Re: theodicy

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:02 am

Have you ever gone through anything that at the time was painful, but if it had never happened, greater joys down the road would not have been possible?

Have you never thought something difficult was worth overcoming, and were glad for the challenge?

Would you prefer no joy on the other side of challenge?

Would you prefer being a vegetable?

Or would you call God a bleeding heart, paternalistic helicopter dictator overstepping bounds and abusing his power?
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:29 am

When you were caught fighting when you were younger, did anyone ever say to you, “If you don’t solve it, I’m going to solve it for you, and you may not like how I solve it”?

Were you always … “Ok, go ahead” … or did you ever appreciate the freedom?

Do you want that freedom to end for everyone?
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: theodicy

Postby Dan~ » Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:13 am

If God respects free will,
he would destroy mind control, slavery, abuse, etc.
But no.

The idea that God helping people negates their freedom.
That is a faulty argument.

Dictatorships reduce human freedom,
and thus should be stopped by the freedom-respecting-God.
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:15 pm

Be as patient with them as God is with you.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:37 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:Be as patient with them as God is with you.


God having patience for evil makes god evil.

We’re not talking about a human here. Humans can pass the little things by and say, “we all make mistakes”.

God has different standards.

God didn’t have to create and/or allow evil.

God can even accomplish that without making us mindless soulless zombies.

The moment you question the power of god is the moment you separate yourself from god.

But if you don’t question the power of god, the only conclusion is that god accepts evil as divine.

Evil doesn’t need to exist to give us freewill. Evil doesn’t need to exist as a contrast to give us joy.

Evil is just gods way of saying... “I like being evil”
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

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Re: theodicy

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:58 pm

So I guess patience is a vice now.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:00 pm

Charles says he’s a virtuoso of patience because of your hunger games.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:06 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:So I guess patience is a vice now.


It’s only an infinite vice if you’re god.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

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Re: theodicy

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:28 pm

Well. In one sense it is infinite. In another sense it has its … shall we say … limits.

Just like a wizard arrives precisely yada yada.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:32 pm

Ichthus.

You’re a name-dropping sycophant with Stockholm Syndrome.

You’re brainwashed.

Suffering is unacceptable.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: theodicy

Postby iambiguous » Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:17 pm

Oh, well...

Another actual philosophy thread here at The New ILP bites the dust...

It's now just another adjunct of The Corner.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

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Re: theodicy

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:22 pm

I mean. Was it not a fair test? Yours, or mine? By what standard?
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: theodicy

Postby iambiguous » Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:45 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Suffering is unacceptable.


Okay, if you can't get them to leave [and you can't, right?] join them...

I suffer. Why? Because those like you and her have polluted a thread of mine with The Corner blather.

But, here we go...

What makes me suffer here brings you satisfaction.

Conflicting goods. Mine rooted in dasein, yours in a "condition".

All I can do then is to request that you take your blather here -- https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=194822 -- instead.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:58 pm

I will respect your request for as long as I remember it and henceforth refer to every post or comment you create as Biggy’s Chamber of EcHoes.

Just because.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:43 pm

Iambiguous wrote:

“ Okay, if you can't get them to leave [and you can't, right?] join them...

I suffer. Why? Because those like you and her have polluted a thread of mine with The Corner blather.

But, here we go...

What makes me suffer here brings you satisfaction.”

Ecmandu replies:

So said the rapist sent to prison by a jury. I gain no satisfaction dealing with twisted minds like yours iambiguous. I just know that you’re a crime against humanity. And I want to make it very apparent.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: theodicy

Postby iambiguous » Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:50 pm


“ Okay, if you can't get them to leave [and you can't, right?] join them...

I suffer. Why? Because those like you and her have polluted a thread of mine with The Corner blather.

But, here we go...

What makes me suffer here brings you satisfaction.”


Ecmandu wrote:
So said the rapist sent to prison by a jury. I gain no satisfaction dealing with twisted minds like yours iambiguous. I just know that you’re a crime against humanity. And I want to make it very apparent.


Uh, suppose I begged you to leave and take her with you. :lol:

And you can't prove it's not God's will, right?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:53 pm

Ec’s patch is a crime against humanity.

Proviso: I will stop replying in Biggy’s Chamber of Echoes when he stops referring to her.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:21 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:Ec’s patch is a crime against humanity.

Proviso: I will stop replying in Biggy’s Chamber of Echoes when he stops referring to her.


You don’t even know how the patch is being constructed.

It’s being constructed so that anyone who still wants to live in existence where they still enjoy someone losing to make them feel good is not forced to leave.

People who don’t want that can leave.

And even if they leave, they can always come back.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: theodicy

Postby iambiguous » Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:24 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
You don’t even know how the patch is being constructed.

It’s being constructed so that anyone who still wants to live in existence where they still enjoy someone losing to make them feel good is not forced to leave.

People who don’t want that can leave.

And even if they leave, they can always come back.


In other words, as long as this is all unfolding "in his head". =D>
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: theodicy

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:29 pm

Ecmandu wrote:

The moment you question the power of god is the moment you separate yourself from god.


That is not necessarily true. It may be the moment in which you come to realize that perhaps God is not, in actuality, as you think/thought Him to be...as many others do also. Thinking "out of the box" may in a sense be bringing one closer to God since you are now "seeing" God in a truer light...albeit a more mysterious one.

We are stretching ourselves, going beyond our old and lazy beliefs, creating a new mindset and perspective, growing up spiritually, when we question the "real" power of God.

Three million Jews were destroyed, murdered, during the Nazi occupation and the holocaust. They were God's chosen people supposedly. Who would at least not take a moment to question God's power/omnipotence, while thinking of this? It really is not a "good fit" is it? So perhaps God is not so much about being all powerful but about being who knows what? Perhaps the all-powerful part has more to do with who WE are rather than with who God is.

Anyway, insofar as your statement is concerned, that might also depend on the individual and that individual's faith, confidence and trust in God.
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:11 pm

I’m so sorry. I have to interject. God SAID there would be persecution. That means he is still in control when it happens. And stuff after that fulfilled prophecies, and weird stuff *keeps* happening even today.. and it’s GOING to get worse (before it gets better). But… without God… there is no real better/worse. Your intuition that it’s real… points to God/Good.

Sorry to intrude, Biggy.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:34 pm

Enlightenment is knowing forever never works with another actual being.

People don’t think in forever.

If you think God is the solution, you can hyper-dimensionality reflect god.

God is the most insecure being ever.

“If you don’t love me with all your heart and soul, you go to hell, that’s why I created hell. Everyone is supposed to love me and only me forever.”
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: theodicy

Postby iambiguous » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:56 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Enlightenment is knowing forever never works with another actual being.

People don’t think in forever.

If you think God is the solution, you can hyper-dimensionality reflect god.

God is the most insecure being ever.

“If you don’t love me with all your heart and soul, you go to hell, that’s why I created hell. Everyone is supposed to love me and only me forever.”


Note to others:

My focus here is not in examining what Ecmandu says about God and His insecurities...or enlightenment or forever or hyper-dimensionality. It's to ask him to demonstrate that what he says is the case regarding them is actually true such that experientially we can confirm this ourselves.

In other words, like asking her how, given this...

"...an endless procession of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions and tornadoes and hurricanes and great floods and great droughts and great fires and deadly viral and bacterial plagues and miscarriages and hundreds and hundreds of medical and mental afflictions and extinction events...making life on Earth a living hell for countless millions of men, women and children down through the ages"


...her own God should not be thought of as a sadistic monster.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: theodicy

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:23 pm

Because he doesn’t take pleasure in the death of the wicked, but wants them to turn and know they are loved, and overcome the world with it like he did/does. No leveling up without a challenge.

No hole. No mud. No problem.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: theodicy

Postby iambiguous » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:47 pm

:lol:

No, seriously.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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