Eternal Punishment and Time.

For intuitive and critical discussions, from spirituality to theological doctrines. Fair warning: because the subject matter is personal, moderation is strict.

Moderator: Dan~

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:14 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:He didn’t do it to feel better about himself. He did it so we’d stop punishing ourselves & LIVE.


No. He did it to atone for HIS sin of creating a suicidal homicidal planet... it helped none of us.

It wasn’t a selfless act. It was a selfish act.

Maybe instead of committing a homicide/suicide on himself he should have raped someone to atone for rape.

Ichthus. It’s fucking absurd. One of the commandments is not to kill. With his power he killed twice, suicide / homicide (of himself

But since none of us can be killed in the ultimate sense... he did it just to disturb us psychologically.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:19 pm

Is there nothing you consider worth dying for?
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:21 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:Is there nothing you consider worth dying for?


We don’t die.

There something worth living for!!

Everyone gets everything they want forever at the expense of nobody.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:22 pm

Would you risk pain, suffering, & physical death for that?
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:29 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:Would you risk pain, suffering, & physical death for that?


I’m not going to invite all the crazies of the world to fuck me up. I’m not insane.

You have to keep boundaries.

Jesus fucked up because he didn’t say what was worth LIVING for, and he called himself the son of man king.

Jesus was not the only person on earth who could resurrect. He abused his speech.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:32 pm

He very well did say what is worth living for.

You don’t hear it.

Yet.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:36 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:He very well did say what is worth living for.

You don’t hear it.

Yet.


No. You don’t hear it.

The purpose of life is to give everyone everything they want forever at the expense of no one.

If Jesus had only taught that one sentence, and nothing else... he wouldn’t have been murdered and this entire planet would have ascended by now.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:47 pm

Count the cost of everyone getting what they want (shallow tutor version, not deepest hunger version).

No one gets real love (deepest hunger version). Real love is costly.

Your plan is garbage. Spit it out.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:47 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:Count the cost of everyone getting what they want (shallow tutor version, not deepest hunger version).

No one gets real love (deepest hunger version). Real love is costly.

Your plan is garbage. Spit it out.


Real love is not letting your child play with an electrical outlet. The cost is much worse / more expensive without real love.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:09 am

Ecmandu wrote:
Ichthus77 wrote:Count the cost of everyone getting what they want (shallow tutor version, not deepest hunger version).

No one gets real love (deepest hunger version). Real love is costly.

Your plan is garbage. Spit it out.


Real love is not letting your child play with an electrical outlet. The cost is much worse / more expensive without real love.


Bad accidents must be possible or there will never be happy ones. I can’t make pain go away. I can sit with it. I can be glad for the happy times. When it stops hurting as much, I can be ready to live again. I can flip off anybody who has a problem with how long that takes. Especially if they lack understanding.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:42 am

Ichthus77 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
Ichthus77 wrote:If we are to be able to say yes, no has to be a viable alternative.


Is it possible to be sent to hell for no reason?

It never occurs to a parent to teach a child that electrical outlets kill you... meaningless already... no malice here, no intent.

Then the child uses one and dies.

No malice, no intent.

So. I ask you again.

Should hell exist?

The child and the parent were put in hell for no reason (just like me)


From where I sit, you just gave an argument in favor of heaven for that child & all who love(d) them. Without heaven, there is no reconciliation of that kind of suffering.

Eternal life starts now, while alive.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:29 am

Ichthus77 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
Ichthus77 wrote:Jesus was/is sinless. We all have our blindspots… he only holds us responsible for what we do with the light that gets past them.

The cross/sacrifice was/is not a magic trick. It was a demonstration of eternal truth… that God loves us as himself despite our crap. God is the one that had to demonstrate that. Love is not love without demonstration. All the stuff in the old testament was foreshadowing that was a set up for that demonstration to be meaningful.

We don’t forgive/love in order to be forgiven/loved. We forgive/love because we are forgiven/loved (forgiven more… love more; first music, then dancing). If we don’t forgive, it is evidence we reject forgiveness…it will show.

“Turn the other cheek” does not mean I have to agree with you about anything. It just means don’t escalate aggression, but neutralize it by showing you are not threatened by it.

Are we *really* debating? Is this a real debate? lol


Love is not letting your child accidentally stick a fork in an electrical outlet.

Why would god be threatened - by the definition of god?

Maybe people don’t like his story. Did that ever occur to you?

That a guy who has no worries came down to forgive himself for his own sin by committing suicide by cop and resurrecting?


If you experienced great loss, it’s a blind spot. You understandably look everywhere around it…everywhere but there. You are in the shadow of his wing.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:58 am

Are these post mortem posts? Ecmandu spouting nonsense; Ichthus trying to save him.
Dan, please lock this thread.
A certain man, walking in the country, saw a cow lying by the side of the road. Noticing some movement from the cow, the man went over to where it lay to investigate. What he saw as movement was a bloated belly stuffed and obese with writhing maggots. Amen.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 13779
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:20 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Ichthus77 wrote:Would you risk pain, suffering, & physical death for that?


I’m not going to invite all the crazies of the world to fuck me up. I’m not insane.

You have to keep boundaries.

Jesus fucked up because he didn’t say what was worth LIVING for, and he called himself the son of man king.

Jesus was not the only person on earth who could resurrect. He abused his speech.


You abuse your speech when you say you resurrected the earth. Jesus wasn’t contradicting himself to get some conspicuous consumption, if that’s what you’re implying.

Your theories, like blackmail, apply to some people, not all. Be more selective.

Thanks for the discussion. Be well.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:44 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
Ichthus77 wrote:Count the cost of everyone getting what they want (shallow tutor version, not deepest hunger version).

No one gets real love (deepest hunger version). Real love is costly.

Your plan is garbage. Spit it out.


Real love is not letting your child play with an electrical outlet. The cost is much worse / more expensive without real love.


Bad accidents must be possible or there will never be happy ones. I can’t make pain go away. I can sit with it. I can be glad for the happy times. When it stops hurting as much, I can be ready to live again. I can flip off anybody who has a problem with how long that takes. Especially if they lack understanding.


That’s a misunderstanding. It’s apologetics.

You do not require dichotomies for existence to exist.

You only require otherness.

Evil does in no way shape or form need to exist in order for people to enjoy themselves.

And Ierrellus.

We’re discussing the actual topic.

You’re off topic in your own thread.

Yes. I did resurrect the world. I did it with memory wipes too. There are so many spirits who have that power.

I find it ironic that you say all this bullshit/praise about spirit and then condemn it.

All will be known. I did the memory wipes to not traumatize you.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:21 pm

Ok Ichthus,

Looks like Ierrellus abandoned this thread!!

Thank goodness!!!

We can actually discuss the topic.

Hell is what you don’t want. It has scales of magnitude of course. However, every single being has a different heaven and different hell. It’s not a cookie cutter thing.

Possessions by beings who hate you is hell. Actually, ANY possession is demonic.

The angelic types just beam love upon you, they don’t possess you.

Love is about something called “wealth translation”

Meaning: they don’t lose it when they give it to you.

Love is defined as a soothing comforting of the soul.

You’ll know it when you feel it.

Love is not invasive. Only hate is.

There are different ways to interpret this... you may just hate yourself. Or a demon may hate you... (being who possess spirits).

I’m using rudimentary language here because it translates (angels and demons) ... really, they’re all just people.

The problem with eternal punishment and time is something I’ll repeat.

If you are a hyper empath, you suffer if anyone suffers.

That means heaven only exists for sociopaths...

People like Ierrellus who want lock this thread.

Now. We all live forever.

The best people suffer forever. And the worst people are punished forever until they become the best people, and then they also suffer forever.

That’s the problem with eternal torment...

The plan doesn’t work. It has a structural flaw to it.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:27 pm

Ierrellus,

You blaspheme Jesus and God, showing no compassion for those who believe in them.
Ah, what's the use? You are sold on your own delusions.
It will be like eating ice cream to read a scholar like Ehrman--to get away for a while from your inability to converse without insane self- aggrandizement.


What was it Jesus said, Ierrellus: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do!
Luke 23:34

I wonder who Christ would feel the most compassion for? wonder who Christ would feel was the luckiest or the more better off?
BE MELTING SNOW. WASH YOURSELF OF YOURSELF.

YOU WANDER FROM ROOM TO ROOM
HUNTING FOR THE DIAMOND NECKLACE
THAT IS ALREADY AROUND YOUR NECK!

DANCE UNTIL YOU SHATTER YOURSELF!

THERE IS A VOICE THAT DOESN'T USE WORDS. LISTEN!

LIFE IS A BALANCE BETWEEN HOLDING ON AND LETTING GO!

LET SILENCE TAKE YOU TO THE CORE OF LIFE!
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:39 pm

So. I’ll explain a bit. I used to say the Lord’s Prayer with my entire spirit when I was suffering beyond human comprehension.

Then. Magically. Four white scars in a perfect row appeared on my left flank where Jesus was speared on the cross. Turns out, I received the Buddha’s empowerments too. It was exactly 4 scars for the four directions and 4 noble truths.

Then three moles appeared on my right hand. This made me the right hand of god as well.

Weird story. I understand.

And then, in my ignorance from beyond human suffering, a hate of life was released from my spirit that actually caused my marking to be removed from my body in one moment.

An angel came to me and told me that my marks were removed. I checked my body, and sure enough, they were gone.

But that’s not the whole story.

After that, I was sent to hell beyond hell beyond hell.

All because of a fucking panic disorder. And everyone’s ignorance... not just mine.

But... at the end of the day. These are all just narratives. I’m still an atheist who’s also not a Buddhist. Mind is so much more beautiful than the books. The past. Every good parent wants their child to have better than them.

Maybe someone will be better than me someday.

That’s an impossible bar... but I’ve seen the impossible become possible so many times, I wouldn’t discount it.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:30 pm

Will reply later. School day :)
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:24 am

Sorry. Tomorrow.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:14 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
You do not require dichotomies for existence to exist.

You only require otherness.

Evil does in no way shape or form need to exist in order for people to enjoy themselves.


Agree! Evil is a privation parasitic on perfection. Good (God) can exist without it. Evil cannot exist unless a perfectly good being exists. God is the (demontrably) true, beatific goodness — the life/light for which we all hunger (WANT)… accept no substitutes! Even *the* Buddha said errybody oughtta be abuddhists. Folks misheard, obv. Well, he didn’t say it quite like that.

That’s why hell must be a viable option—so that love is a real choice.

Ecmandu wrote:
Ichthus77 wrote:He very well did say what is worth living for.

You don’t hear it.

Yet.


No. You don’t hear it.

The purpose of life is to give everyone everything they want forever at the expense of no one.

If Jesus had only taught that one sentence, and nothing else... he wouldn’t have been murdered and this entire planet would have ascended by now.


To repeat from other thread:

Ichthus77 wrote:Jesus didn’t *want* to die. That’s why he had blood coming out of his eyeballs and stuff before they even got to him. That’s why I say there *has* to be legit joy at/before (as!!!) the end of that/every ordeal… otherwise it’s all fricken pointless death. offscreen: Bitch! Where’s my damn fedora!

p.s. He did not have sexual relations with any woman. For reals!!!!

TELL me that isn’t badass. You won’t. You can’t!


“The best people suffer forever. And the worst people are punished forever until they become the best people, and then they also suffer forever.” — Ec

It isn’t the best people who accept God’s forgiveness. It’s those who know they need it. And by your theory, that’s eventually everyone. I don’t rule it out. But we’ll all be salted with fire. Wakey wakey eggs & bakey, dumbass. (You’ll have to forgive my tic disorder of displaying dominance even when it isn’t being challenged.)

You don’t get sent to hell—you openly reject forgiveness (not too late to change your mind). Don’t blame it on panic disorder or other people’s ignorance…it’s a choice only you can make, and it helps deal with panic disorder (perfect love casts out fear… I’m a living example… baby steps, though, lol). Still… I prefer to focus on joy, rather than its viable alternative that makes love a real choice.

Maybe someone will be better than me someday.


We all suck. We can all improve at loving the way God loves. You don’t need your own bio kids for that. Just run circles of forgiveness around yourself & then go look in the mirror.

P.s. Watch “What About Bob?” if you haven’t (yet) in a while. I kept that from all four previous memory wipes just for you.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:22 pm

You took me out of context.

Why? Because it ruins your narrative.

First you said you agree that dichotomies don’t need to exist for good to exist. Then in the next couple sentences you talk about dichotomies again being necessary. Which is it?

Then you took me out of context again.

The REASON I stated that there’s no heaven in a pure sense is that you have to only be a sociopath to fully enjoy if another being suffers.

But sociopaths are punished.

The only way this construct of yours would work is if everyone (infinite number of beings) becomes hyper empaths.

But then, when they gain full knowledge... they’ll understand the pleasurable exclusive access problem, the negative zero sum problem —- which violates their consent, which brings up the consent violation problem.

Remember when I stated that hell is just something you don’t want to occur ... that there are varying degrees of it?

Imagine an infinite number of beings who care enough to feel hell forever until these problems are solved.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:33 pm

The way you define hell is what Jesus means by dying to self. Yeah, it sucks… you go through withdrawls.

But then… dammit… you’re free. You’re not a slave to inclination.

Never finished in this form. Look at it as endless opportunities for overcoming… winning against yourself…

Love yourself despite lost battles.

The war was won before this whole thing kicked off.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:37 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:The way you define hell is what Jesus means by dying to self. Yeah, it sucks… you go through withdrawls.

But then… dammit… you’re free. You’re not a slave to inclination.

Never finished in this form. Look at it as endless opportunities for overcoming… winning against yourself…

Love yourself despite lost battles.

The war was won before this whole thing kicked off.


You don’t understand that even if a person dissolves self hatred, hypocrisy, cognitive dissonance and contradiction....

They still suffer if the three structural problems of existence are never solved.

I really think you don’t understand what I’m saying.

You have a mental block on that fact.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 16011
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Duh. Existence. I'm sure that'd be wrong on SAT's!

Re: Eternal Punishment and Time.

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:46 pm

Can you please explain the difference between dichotomy & otherness from your perspective?

Perfection/wholeness/greatness … we don’t even come close. What makes you think we could even attempt at an accurate definition of it “for ourselves” in order to say none of us are it until we are all it? We’ll never reach it, except we are made in the image of the Best Idea. So…we can accept the Signal rather than block it. Listen…

Regarding repeat resurrections & memory wipes: If we keep having to be WOWed out of the mud/vomit we keep returning to (like a pig/dog) (salted with fire) (gross)… eventually we’re gonna be toast (super burnt—not the way you like it). Kinda stole that from my ethics prof.

***

One more go round responding to your narrative:

All solutions to the “three structural problems of existence” are variations of treat the other/them as self/us and vice versa (equality/cooperation principle)… correspondence principle…

1.) The goal of life is to give everyone forever, everything they want at the expense of not one single being in existence.

We are all patterned off the same basic original consent structure (God’s image). So everyone wants, at bottom, truth, goodness, and beauty, all of which are completely free (even of inclination or compulsion). And everyone who seeks, finds. Boom. Solved. No micromanaging required. Since Jesus paid the ultimate sacrifice with the joy set before him (in his mind, but for real), which made it all worth it, the plan is for us to do likewise. If we seek the kingdom first, it puts all our other wants in order.

The nonhuman animals (and as far as most know, the AI) don’t have that same hunger—and if they do, they should be treated as a person. If they, or even a human, don’t appear to understand the difference between good and evil, they should be protected (from themselves and others) like a wild animal.

2.) There are three structural problems with existence:

a) consent violation: the assumption only equals can consent, and any differences constitute power imbalance and thus violation of consent, meaning, “I don’t want this” - maybe we should solve that problem for all beings!!

Everybody wants the first stuff. Boom. Solved. You have the concept of “no turns into a yes” — so you know “yes” is consent — so you know not all “yes” involves bullying (consent violation). The greater/rich should redefine great/rich and be servant leaders/sharers. Size is irrelevant to consent… a large nation should respect the no … or the yes … of a small nation, and vice versa. Thoughts on arranged marriage possibly relevant: https://www.facebook.com/10000369670299 ... 22579/?d=n

Jesus is God demonstrating his eternal perfection/mercy covers our crap attempts at/away from perfection … so we would stop TRYing (& running out of steam… Kierkegaard’s ethical sphere, or religiousness A) and start living in & out from the the fullness of his JOY/love (infinite well - into which we take Kierkegaard’s leap of faith…like a canon ball).

For some, it’s like you’re Indiana Jones and … you have all these clues confirming the reality of a way over the abyss… but you have to step out in order to learn the path is really there.

b) the negative zero sum problem: the assumption that everyone should win, or for every winner there is more than one loser.

Not if everyone is seeking after that first stuff. All who seek, win. Boom. Solved. Work this out in conversation that tweaks terms until double standards are removed. Be happy when others win more, as long as everyone’s needs (including Maslow’s or comparable hierarchy) are met.

c) the pleasurable exclusive access problem: the assumption that all resources should be shared (everyone should win) equally. Also meaning, while you’re having a decent time, you’re invariably stomping, shattering and crushing another’s heart.

Not if their heart is busy seeking after that first stuff. Boom. Solved. Everyone who does their part should have their basic needs met. They should be free to choose what part that is within their abilities. No one should be able to take anything from them that would result in their basic needs (all on Maslow’s or comparable hierarchy) not being met. Be happy their needs are being met. Just bring your loaves & fishes & see what God does with them. Store ‘em up in heaven, though…this world is a sandcastle for the tides.

How could God allow it to continue, when it’s looking more & more like hell than helleaven in many people’s lives?

Answer: He won’t. Be patient, as much as you want him to be patient with you/us—more, if you’re like Jonah. And check the plank in your own eye.

Only one being is capable of absolute perfection. The rest of us are just stuck with knowing we’re loved despite our imperfection. Do we not know? Have we not heard? We are held accountable according to how we respond to the light we’ve been given. The more light/forgiveness we’re given, the more we will show it and keep trying when we fail because the Perfect One made us to be loved & love no matter what.
.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas
User avatar
Ichthus77
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6041
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: pale blue clump of star particles

PreviousNext

Return to Religion and Spirituality



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users