Good News of the Kingdom

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Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:52 pm

In a perfect world you would reply with constructive criticism or a link to you reading this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vt4 ... obilebasic
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:24 am

shuffled a few things around, replaced a few apostrophes with end quotes

Final edit.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Bob » Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:33 am

Ichthus77 wrote:In a perfect world you would reply with constructive criticism or a link to you reading this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vt4 ... obilebasic

It is rather difficult to come up with constructive criticism to something that is a two-hour read. It obviously lacks originality and doesn’t really put the words of the Gospels into a new light. I can see what you have attempted to do, but I think that we really need it in story form, and stories today are a little different to what they were two thousand years ago. There is a lot of evidence that the sources of the Gospels may have looked quite similar to what you have done, before Mark came along and wrote his tragedy, which Matthew and Luke couldn’t allow to remain the way it was. And John? Well, he wanted a completely different portrayal of the events around Jesus.

What came out of a condensed reading of the Gospels for me was the thought that the Kingdom was emerging, or should emerge, rather than the common idea of it arriving out of the sky, gleaming and beaming as in Revelations. What we assume from the letters and acts of the apostles, in the expectation of the end of the world, people actually did allow a new Way to emerge, and although it received a scathing reception from the Romans for being heretical, many simple people were enthusiastic. But it seems that the spread of churches didn’t happen without inward fighting either, which Paul was very critical of, which brings the whole development down to earth.

I still believe that this new Way can emerge, but the question is what could move people towards a radical change, being as the multiple apocalyptic visions have as yet failed to transpire, and Christians have largely returned to the mundane, with a high note on Sundays? What could inspire us to go this other Way, rather than take the highway?
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
When you are out of touch with reality you will easily embrace a delusion, and equally put in doubt the most basic elements of existence. If this reminds you of the mindset of the present day materialist science and philosophy establishments, as well as of the loudest voices in the socio-political debate, we should not be particularly surprised, since they show all the signs of attending with the left hemisphere alone. I live in the hope that that may soon change: for without a change we are lost.
McGilchrist, Iain . The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World (S.562). Perspectiva Press. Kindle-Version.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:12 pm

It beats universal slavery? It is the answer to all the deepest Why questions? It is the synthesis reconciling every antithesis? I dunno. Stuff like that.

Thanks :)
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:12 pm

Yours is a kind of sayings gospel . It reminded me of Q. As modern historians poured over the gospels of the New Testament wondering which had been written first they set the gospels side-by-side for comparison and notice two kinds of correspondence. One correspondence was that the storyline in Matthew and Luke agreed only when it followed the gospel of mark. From that fact they deduced that Mark was the earliest narrative gospel and the source for the plot used by Matthew and Luke. The second correspondence was that Matthew and Luke contained a large quantity of sayings material not found in Mark and much of this material was identical. From this they deduced that Matthew and Luke had used a second written document in addition to the gospel of mark. They called this document Q as a shorthand for Quelle which means source in German. So the theory is that Q was a book of the first followers of Jesus which came to light after being lost for 1800 years.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Sculptor » Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:23 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:In a perfect world you would reply with constructive criticism or a link to you reading this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vt4 ... obilebasic


There is definitely something fishing going on here

One man's Heaven is another man's hell.
I would rather poke myself in the eye with a wooden bodkin that read any BS from scripture.

That is just a rambling river of verbal Diarrhoea. Why would anyone want to go down shit creek?
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:11 pm

felix dakat wrote:Yours is a kind of sayings gospel . It reminded me of Q. As modern historians poured over the gospels of the New Testament wondering which had been written first they set the gospels side-by-side for comparison and notice two kinds of correspondence. One correspondence was that the storyline in Matthew and Luke agreed only when it followed the gospel of mark. From that fact they deduced that Mark was the earliest narrative gospel and the source for the plot used by Matthew and Luke. The second correspondence was that Matthew and Luke contained a large quantity of sayings material not found in Mark and much of this material was identical. From this they deduced that Matthew and Luke had used a second written document in addition to the gospel of mark. They called this document Q as a shorthand for Quelle which means source in German. So the theory is that Q was a book of the first followers of Jesus which came to light after being lost for 1800 years.


Should read stuff by Lydia McGrew & watch vids by Tim McGrew :)

The Gospels are much earlier & Q is a mere hypothesis.

Buuuut that’s not why I started this thread.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:13 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Ichthus77 wrote:In a perfect world you would reply with constructive criticism or a link to you reading this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vt4 ... obilebasic


There is definitely something fishing going on here

One man's Heaven is another man's hell.
I would rather poke myself in the eye with a wooden bodkin that read any BS from scripture.

That is just a rambling river of verbal Diarrhoea. Why would anyone want to go down shit creek?


Universal slavery is the shit creek to hell this kingdom avoids.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:55 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Yours is a kind of sayings gospel . It reminded me of Q. As modern historians poured over the gospels of the New Testament wondering which had been written first they set the gospels side-by-side for comparison and notice two kinds of correspondence. One correspondence was that the storyline in Matthew and Luke agreed only when it followed the gospel of mark. From that fact they deduced that Mark was the earliest narrative gospel and the source for the plot used by Matthew and Luke. The second correspondence was that Matthew and Luke contained a large quantity of sayings material not found in Mark and much of this material was identical. From this they deduced that Matthew and Luke had used a second written document in addition to the gospel of mark. They called this document Q as a shorthand for Quelle which means source in German. So the theory is that Q was a book of the first followers of Jesus which came to light after being lost for 1800 years.


Should read stuff by Lydia McGrew & watch vids by Tim McGrew :)

The Gospels are much earlier & Q is a mere hypothesis.

Buuuut that’s not why I started this thread.


Ten minutes into this https://youtu.be/T4v_tisDAj8 it doen't seem credible. Why would actual disciple Matthew defer to plot from 3rd party (follower of Peter John Mark? ) rather than his own eye witness account?

What are you doing with your read but quoting the so-called "red letter" words of Jesus? That's what Jefferson did a couple hundred years ago. Why do it again?
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:08 pm

Maybe can discuss Lydia’s vid in new thread?

Jefferson didn’t only use Jesus’ words, and he left a lot out. I only left out what isn’t in the earliest manuscripts. I wanted to get a Keynote. I like harmony.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Bob » Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:49 am

felix dakat wrote:Ten minutes into this https://youtu.be/T4v_tisDAj8 it doen't seem credible. Why would actual disciple Matthew defer to plot from 3rd party (follower of Peter John Mark? ) rather than his own eye witness account?

What are you doing with your read but quoting the so-called "red letter" words of Jesus? That's what Jefferson did a couple hundred years ago. Why do it again?

The interesting thing about this video is that it is all about reliability. She keeps on saying that if Matthew did follow Mark, some people would be saying that he was making things up. I don't see that as an issue at all. It seems to me quite clear that Mark was the first, but as he wrote the gospel in the style of a Greek tragedy, the writers of the two other synoptic gospels didn't want it to stay that way. After all, where's the "Good News" in a tragedy?

Having said that, I see all of the gospels as compositions, as arrangements of sources, and the Q theory seems quite acceptable, although there may have been many sources. The thing is though, just as Mark wrote a tragedy, with an obvious intention behind his writing, the other writers were not “reporting” in a way that journalists might tell the facts, but rather they were proclaiming. This can’t be forgotten.
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
When you are out of touch with reality you will easily embrace a delusion, and equally put in doubt the most basic elements of existence. If this reminds you of the mindset of the present day materialist science and philosophy establishments, as well as of the loudest voices in the socio-political debate, we should not be particularly surprised, since they show all the signs of attending with the left hemisphere alone. I live in the hope that that may soon change: for without a change we are lost.
McGilchrist, Iain . The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World (S.562). Perspectiva Press. Kindle-Version.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Sculptor » Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:16 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:In a perfect world you would reply with constructive criticism or a link to you reading this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vt4 ... obilebasic


My constructive criticism is that this is a PHILOSOPHY web page.

Your document contains no philosophy of any kind, not even religious philosophy.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Sculptor » Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:18 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
Ichthus77 wrote:In a perfect world you would reply with constructive criticism or a link to you reading this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vt4 ... obilebasic


There is definitely something fishing going on here

One man's Heaven is another man's hell.
I would rather poke myself in the eye with a wooden bodkin that read any BS from scripture.

That is just a rambling river of verbal Diarrhoea. Why would anyone want to go down shit creek?


Universal slavery is the shit creek to hell this kingdom avoids.


No. That is laughable.
The kingdom is the purest form of mental slavery. And you have placed your mind in chains.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Sculptor » Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:19 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:Maybe can discuss Lydia’s vid in new thread?

Better still. Why not find a completely different forum? One that deals with religions and other fantasy worlds?

Jefferson didn’t only use Jesus’ words, and he left a lot out. I only left out what isn’t in the earliest manuscripts. I wanted to get a Keynote. I like harmony.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Maia » Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:39 pm

I'm not going to spend two hours on it, but in the second paragraph I came across this sentence (my emphasis):

+++He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives and *recovery of sight to the blind*, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, and to preach the year of the Lord’s favor.+++

So go on then, I'm listening.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:34 pm

Maia wrote:I'm not going to spend two hours on it, but in the second paragraph I came across this sentence (my emphasis):

+++He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives and *recovery of sight to the blind*, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, and to preach the year of the Lord’s favor.+++

So go on then, I'm listening.


It does not mean physically blind. But keep listening. Two hours. Not even but a blip.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Maia » Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:14 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:
Maia wrote:I'm not going to spend two hours on it, but in the second paragraph I came across this sentence (my emphasis):

+++He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives and *recovery of sight to the blind*, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, and to preach the year of the Lord’s favor.+++

So go on then, I'm listening.


It does not mean physically blind. But keep listening. Two hours. Not even but a blip.


Yes, I thought it might be something like that. I don't think I'll bother, thanks.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:40 pm

Any time.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:30 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:
It does not mean physically blind.


Really? How did you determine that?
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:46 pm

felix dakat wrote:
Ichthus77 wrote:
It does not mean physically blind.


Really? How did you determine that?


There was a context when it would have been meant physically—when he is replying to John the Baptist.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

…but in this case, the blindness was spiritual. It is based on the passage from Isaiah. They are imprisoned in darkness.

Yes, he does actually heal both kinds of blindness (not guaranteed, in the case of physical… can be a blessing), but the context of the moment determines which kind.

I’m not a salesman… in case you’re wondering why I didn’t say that in the first place. I didn’t see until now it was a set up giving me an opportunity to pitch, either…

Whatever, man!

I get it. I have a skeptical mind, too, and could not wrap my head around it … and am still amazed. It never ends. You sometimes get in the way… you lose focus… you forget. But. You’re ruined for... Well. We kinda start out ruined, anyway, don’t we? Anyway I’m rambling.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:29 pm

So the healing of blindness by Jesus was a literal fulfillment of a prophecy that was intended figuratively? What does this say about the hermeneutics of the canonical gospel authors?
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:47 pm

He probably meant that if you are blind, then you can take Christ's Hand, and He will lead you through the valley of darkness.

Like Virgil in the Inferno

You can trust Him to guide you through Hell. The meaning is both literal, metaphorical, and allegorical.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:24 pm

Who probably meant that? Isaiah who lived centuries before Jesus of Nazareth was born?
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:44 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:In a perfect world you would reply with constructive criticism or a link to you reading this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vt4 ... obilebasic


The 25 words or less version please.

Oh, yeah, and a context.

What Good News from what Kingdom?

And what if others insist it is actually Bad News because it does not reflect the Good News from their own [very different] Kingdom?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby MagsJ » Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:36 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:There was a context when it would have been meant physically—when he is replying to John the Baptist.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

…but in this case, the blindness was spiritual. It is based on the passage from Isaiah. They are imprisoned in darkness.

The darkness is ignorance.. not knowing any better.. living wayward lives, etc. etc. etc... hence only the chosen (good) few, being led to the promised land. This was an emulation of the, older, Eastern religions.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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