A look forward in hope

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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:12 pm

Page 2, Domination:

Urwrongx1000 wrote:This Slave-Dialectic is too predictable.
How many Millenniums is "Humanity" going to tolerate this bullshyte?

Again, how am I wrong?
Utopia (what you claim is your "Hope"), AFTER you die,
And AFTER you do exactly as I say, for your whole lifetime,
If you fuck up once, then you burn in the Lake of Fire.

What is "Hopeful" about this?
Isn't this the basis of your Hope?


And then you have the nerve to attack me???
Did I invent your Superstitions?
Did I place you into this bondage?
Do I not show you your chains?
Yet still you deny they bind you?
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:19 pm

The Slave's Choice:

1. No hope (Kropotkin's choice)
2. A pinch of hope (Bob's choice)


Why are so many people tricked into this delusion and falsity? Then again, most people fall victim to Mid-Level Marketing and pyramid schemes, Jewish scams. Scamming for over 2000 years, isn't this what Religion and Abrahamism is? Why stop, when it works all too well? When will the fish stop biting for the hook in the bait? Never, that's not how Evolution works. Adaptation is Anomaly, not the Norm. It is rare that any organism or individual "advanced". Perhaps so too is it rare that an individual ought to be hopeful for "Advancement" or "Progress". It is rarer then to expect as much from the masses and "Humanity", "Human" as they like to be called, a pet's name, and repeat it in their heads. Are they though, Human?

What does that even mean, Human?


I offer a 3rd Choice, a Flood of "Hope", drown in Hope.
But it cannot arise from a False Dichotomy, a simple Logical Fallacy.
It's not a matter of Starving to death, or Eating your shoe leather. That is not a "Choice" at all.

This is why the OP cannot answer his own questions...
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:21 pm

What is "Hope" except Confidence in one's own Judgments?

Where's Ichthus???

Stick that in your Critique of Judgment and shovel it!
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:35 pm

Satan has grown fat and lazy in the 21st Century.

If you're going to peddle lies, then at least offer some with a little more meat.

Run faster.
Lift stronger.
Handsomer.
An ounce of Charisma.


If you can't offer this (Ecmandu's Flaw), then how do you expect people to listen to you ...honestly, I want to know.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:19 pm

The last thing left in Pandora's box was Hope.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:55 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:What do the Abrahamic religions teach?
Jews-Christians-Moslems?

That if you die, then you go to Paradise.
Utopia is on the other side of Death.

How is this not a Slave-morality?
How is this not a Slave-mindset?
How is this not a Slave-dialectic?


"Paradise"
But only after You Die.
Is this not a call for you to kill yourself?
Show me where I'm wrong.
I know most of you morons on this forum are dying to prove me wrong, so do it....


on earth as it is in heaven
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:03 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:A slave is defined by purposelessness and hopelessness.
A slave has no control over his/her fate, no purpose.

That you cannot understand this, demonstrates your (A)morality openly.
You are a slave, not a master.

I'm beginning to believe that Mastery is genetically inherited, and cannot be 'educated' nor 'indoctrinated' nor 'built' from the blood of the slave class.


No surprises there.
We all know that you are self deluded and think yourself superior.
But most of the people on the forum know you are just a slave to the endemic ideology which makes you think that way because that is how the establishment control people like you. They throw you a few maggoty carrots to make sure you are alienated from the people; because a divided people are most likely to be enslaved, Divide and rule.
And you have not only sucked but you have swallowed as well.


Errybody has a carrot (or more) that doesn’t really satisfy until they stop denying their deepest hunger. Surprise… it’s not hookers & blow.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:06 pm

Sorry, I don’t have more time for shenanigans.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:07 pm

Urwrongx1000

What is "Hope" except Confidence in one's own Judgments?


I am not so sure of that. Hope is more a matter of trusting despite one's insecurities and uncertainties.


Confidence in one's own Judgments to me sounds more like being self-assured. Where is the need for hope there?
BE MELTING SNOW. WASH YOURSELF OF YOURSELF.

YOU WANDER FROM ROOM TO ROOM
HUNTING FOR THE DIAMOND NECKLACE
THAT IS ALREADY AROUND YOUR NECK!

DANCE UNTIL YOU SHATTER YOURSELF!

THERE IS A VOICE THAT DOESN'T USE WORDS. LISTEN!

LIFE IS A BALANCE BETWEEN HOLDING ON AND LETTING GO!

LET SILENCE TAKE YOU TO THE CORE OF LIFE!
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:11 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Satan has grown fat and lazy in the 21st Century.

If you're going to peddle lies, then at least offer some with a little more meat.

Run faster.
Lift stronger.
Handsomer.
An ounce of Charisma.


If you can't offer this (Ecmandu's Flaw), then how do you expect people to listen to you ...honestly, I want to know.


You really think I’m peddling lies?

Is that what this is?

May your consent be violated forever... right?

Wow. What a piece of shit I am for saying that’s the only problem in existence.

What’s my lie exactly?

I tell people that existences biggest problem is everyone’s “I don’t want this to be happening”. And that we need to solve it.

I tell people that the purpose of life is to give everyone everything that they want at the expense of nobody.

Where my big lie here?
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:13 pm

your big lie prolly centers around the fact that you haven’t posted any cat pics

Charles is not amused.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:16 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:your big lie prolly centers around the fact that you haven’t posted any cat pics

Charles is not amused.



Now that you know I easily beat you in a debate...

You’ve decided to troll me and add no content for the rest of your history on ILP.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:25 pm

Charles says you’re a sore loser.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:Charles says you’re a sore loser.


Charles says you think you’re immediately forgiven for this (and anything and everything you do forever) and that you project.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:38 pm

Charles says he likes me better because I tell the truth about what he’s thinking. He appreciates that. Also, he’s hungry.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:41 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:Charles says he likes me better because I tell the truth about what he’s thinking. He appreciates that. Also, he’s hungry.


Actually... Charles has plenty of food and a clean plate. What he wants are treats.

If Charles had his way, he’d eat ONLY treats. I’m not that wealthy. Charles should know that.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Mad Man P » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:45 pm

Bob wrote:You pursue an idea that you have set in your mind and fail to pick up on where people are going with their thoughts.

Conflict and suffering aren’t a threat, they are already here. I’m looking for a way to discontinue the bane of humanity, not propose a new threat.


You know, you're not wrong... I'm an ABZ kinda guy, just skip right to the end and sometimes I do forget to connect the dots, just assuming it's obvious.

I'll eat the blame for this miscommunication. I got what you meant, but if you reframe that very same sentiment it can be stated as "We ought find a remedy, OR ELSE continue to face conflict and suffering"
And when framed that way it's the threat of continued conflict and suffering to which we are appealing in order to persuade.

Freedom, as a famous songwriter noted, “well, that's just some people talkin'” as long as it doesn’t bring warmth and comfort to someone out in the cold. Our notion of freedom in as being as “free as a bird” is relatively modern individualistic idea, whereas freemen initially had the right to live within walls, safe from robbers and murderers.


Not sure how to interpret that... I will grant you that if you abandon freedom for safety, you can make things a lot safer...
But personally I'd have a very hard time deciding where I'd rather be... within the walls of the slave pen or outside amidst the savages.
I'd live longer and more comfortably as a slave... I might yet retain my dignity in a struggle amidst the savages... a difficult choice to make, one that I hope I never have to face.

The main point that came out of these dialogues was that no one need surrender their individuality, their loved ones, their hopes or dreams, but in fact it was agreed that the best way ahead was to be true to them as far as they didn’t infringe on those of others – much like we already live in society. The only thing that we have to surrender is the idea of supremacy and dominion, which has been a problem even within Christianity, let alone in conflict with other traditions. This is the problem with what we observe being expressed in Russia at present.


Human tribalism isn't a simple evil that we can be rid of... because it's not villainous "greed" or even "hate" that drives it, as so many seem to believe. It's the same reason we kill animals or take their homes and make them ours.
It's the fact that we love the people closest to us more than we do a stranger... significantly more. If some stranger should starve so that our kin should have all they would ever need and we could feel secure that they will not suffer for lack of anything... then so be it.

Rid yourself of tribalism entirely by telling, or better yet, showing your children that you don't love them any more than any other person and after you watch their hearts break, see how quickly that turns to bitterness and resentment. That sense of "supremacy" (or more accurately, "priority") and wish for dominion brought by only caring for you and yours, is no better or worse than the collective "love" (or more accurately "obligation") absent personal bonds and attachments. Servitude to the collective and the individual devaluation that it brings, can be as harrowing as any tribal war.

It seems to me what we're seeking is a balancing act between the extremes and we have no easy answers... there may be no ideal proportion and we may be stuck in eternal negotiations, that risk turning hostile at any moment.
In short: Some conflict and suffering may be a price worth paying to stave off an even worse outcome.

So when you argue we have problems that we ought fix... It's not that I disagree, it's that I'm compelled to ask: What will it cost us?
As I don't see much point in trading one hell for another.
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:56 pm

The only hope we have is structurally changing existence itself. That’s it. There’s no other option.

Is it authoritarian that we change it? No.

Is it democratic that we change it? No.

Everyone has to get on board. Changing structural plans is no small feat.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Bob » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:58 pm

Mad Man P wrote:
Freedom, as a famous songwriter noted, “well, that's just some people talkin'” as long as it doesn’t bring warmth and comfort to someone out in the cold. Our notion of freedom in as being as “free as a bird” is relatively modern individualistic idea, whereas freemen initially had the right to live within walls, safe from robbers and murderers.

Not sure how to interpret that... I will grant you that if you abandon freedom for safety, you can make things a lot safer...
But personally I'd have a very hard time deciding where I'd rather be... within the walls of the slave pen or outside amidst the savages.
I'd live longer and more comfortably as a slave... I might yet retain my dignity in a struggle amidst the savages... a difficult choice to make, one that I hope I never have to face.

Why do you go to extremes? What makes you assume that freemen were slaves? It takes the discussion into areas that are irrelevant. The point is that our understanding of the word freedom is very romantic and doesn’t take the harsh reality of life into consideration. Think about how many people are robbed or even murdered whilst out in their caravan or tent or fall to their death whilst exercising their freedom. Sure, its their choice, but it doesn’t change much. Freedom isn’t as simple as our romantic ideas.

Mad Man P wrote:Human tribalism isn't a simple evil that we can be rid of... because it's not villainous "greed" or even "hate" that drives it, as so many seem to believe. It's the same reason we kill animals or take their homes and make them ours.
It's the fact that we love the people closest to us more than we do a stranger... significantly more. If some stranger should starve so that our kin should have all they would ever need and we could feel secure that they will not suffer for lack of anything... then so be it.

A strange understanding of love, but probably a normal view nowadays. If we understand God (or whatever name we want to give the ground of being) as a cosmic unity from which all life emerges, then you can understand why Jesus told us to love God with all our being, and to love our neighbours as we love ourselves (even our enemies) because we are one. This is non-duality, which overcomes the us-them divide. It is also what I was talking about …

Mad Man P wrote:Rid yourself of tribalism entirely by telling, or better yet, showing your children that you don't love them any more than any other person and after you watch their hearts break, see how quickly that turns to bitterness and resentment. That sense of "supremacy" (or more accurately, "priority") and wish for dominion brought by only caring for you and yours, is no better or worse than the collective "love" (or more accurately "obligation") absent personal bonds and attachments. Servitude to the collective and the individual devaluation that it brings, can be as harrowing as any tribal war.

You seem to be going off at a tangent. A child doesn’t need to know I love them more than someone else, but that I love them and that they are special. Secondly, if it is the teaching with which we are brought up, there is no estrangement. This is really the problem we have today, by differentiating in the way you said, you exclude people, which is not necessary (especially not to prove you love your child), and an inclusionary attitude would merely widen the family. You don’t have to prove to a child that you love them more than their cousin, but just that you don’t love your child less, for which there is a lot you can do.

Exclusion would be a form of xenophobia, instead of doing all you can to show how you love your child, you go out of your way to show you like other less. It seems a strange logic to me. I was a male nurse and my work was inclusive by nature, but my son when visiting didn’t get jealous of my embracing a patient. He adopted my actions as the thing to do.

Mad Man P wrote:It seems to me what we're seeking is a balancing act between the extremes and we have no easy answers... there may be no ideal proportion and we may be stuck in eternal negotiations, that risk turning hostile at any moment.
In short: Some conflict and suffering may be a price worth paying to stave off an even worse outcome.

So when you argue we have problems that we ought fix... It's not that I disagree, it's that I'm compelled to ask: What will it cost us?
As I don't see much point in trading one hell for another.

Once again, you are talking in extremes, which may be your reality, but it isn’t the reality I have experienced when travelling the world. Rather, people have been welcoming, but expected my respect of their traditions when doing so. In fact, when visiting a temple in Sri Lanka, unlike European people, a lady took me and my wife into the front of the queue, and people behind signalled they didn’t mind. This was just one example of my own experience and that of others who we met on our travels.

Of course, you can stumble into situations where criminality is widespread, as I mentioned above, but amongst normal people in normal situations, there is a willingness for cooperation. There are also relationships that have to be healed, like where Nations have behaved in a way that has left scars and mourning, and I, as a Brit have to be very aware of that when in India or Sri Lanka, as well as other countries where the Empire left its bootmarks.

Jesus and other holy people have challenged our concepts and provoked an inclusive attitude. Perhaps we are just too afraid to do that, worried that it could be “skin off my nose”, and we cling to our habits and laziness, and would rather take on all the conflicts than extend a hand to others. That could be the reason for opposition.
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
When you are out of touch with reality you will easily embrace a delusion, and equally put in doubt the most basic elements of existence. If this reminds you of the mindset of the present day materialist science and philosophy establishments, as well as of the loudest voices in the socio-political debate, we should not be particularly surprised, since they show all the signs of attending with the left hemisphere alone. I live in the hope that that may soon change: for without a change we are lost.
McGilchrist, Iain . The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World (S.562). Perspectiva Press. Kindle-Version.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:06 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Ichthus77 wrote:Charles says he likes me better because I tell the truth about what he’s thinking. He appreciates that. Also, he’s hungry.


Actually... Charles has plenty of food and a clean plate. What he wants are treats.

If Charles had his way, he’d eat ONLY treats. I’m not that wealthy. Charles should know that.


Charles says he will apologize for only telling half the story of why he’s hungry if you’ll apologize for only telling half the story of why you fattened him up with treats in place of physical affection.

He says you seem upset, and he thought you liked giving him treats. He said he doesn’t care about treats and he’ll try to not need them or physical affection ever again.

Honestly, I feel like a pawn here & you guys obviously have some things to work out.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Bob » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:35 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
Ichthus77 wrote:Charles says he likes me better because I tell the truth about what he’s thinking. He appreciates that. Also, he’s hungry.


Actually... Charles has plenty of food and a clean plate. What he wants are treats.

If Charles had his way, he’d eat ONLY treats. I’m not that wealthy. Charles should know that.


Charles says he will apologize for only telling half the story of why he’s hungry if you’ll apologize for only telling half the story of why you fattened him up with treats in place of physical affection.

He says you seem upset, and he thought you liked giving him treats. He said he doesn’t care about treats and he’ll try to not need them or physical affection ever again.

Honestly, I feel like a pawn here & you guys obviously have some things to work out.

I'm thinking of putting you on the ignore list because you are trolling in threads, posting nothing of relevance but a lot of it. Start your own threads for goodness sake!
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
When you are out of touch with reality you will easily embrace a delusion, and equally put in doubt the most basic elements of existence. If this reminds you of the mindset of the present day materialist science and philosophy establishments, as well as of the loudest voices in the socio-political debate, we should not be particularly surprised, since they show all the signs of attending with the left hemisphere alone. I live in the hope that that may soon change: for without a change we are lost.
McGilchrist, Iain . The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World (S.562). Perspectiva Press. Kindle-Version.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Mad Man P » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:39 pm

Bob wrote:Why do you go to extremes? What makes you assume that freemen were slaves? It takes the discussion into areas that are irrelevant.


MMP wrote:It seems to me what we're seeking is a balancing act between the extremes and we have no easy answers


ABZ... let me try again, with a bit more clarity.

You seem to be under the impression that there is a middle ground between the extremes that eliminates all conflict and suffering... where I am suggesting there may not be such a magical place.
I am using the extremes to showcase the problems unique and endemic to either side of the balance... and arguing that perhaps the best we can manage is to minimize the conflict and suffering... but never be rid of it entirely.

If that is true and we managed to find that knife's edge on which to balance... even then, there will be those that suffer and those who sympathise with those that suffer. They will wish to push for change, to alleviate that suffering... but where they push us motivated by good intentions, would objectively be an even worse hell, and then there will be a pendulum swing back, because yet more people will suffer and push for change... back and forward we'll go.

I'm not arguing that we've found that knife's edge where we've minimized conflict and suffering and ought freeze the pendulum in place... and even if we did, circumstances change around us, meaning the goldilocks zone is likely a moving target. What am arguing however, is that mere conflict and suffering is not in and of itself an indication that we've messed things up... unless you believe that paradise on earth is possible.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Meno_ » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:58 pm

I am suggesting the possibility of realizing that to accede in the narrowing of doubt as to being able to withstand the fear of jumping from the razors' edge toward the increasing probability of a gently coerced push; need such to become appearent to the least imaginative slave who then could become his own master to conquer that fear.

Without the incessant fear of looking back his shoulder to gain peer or any other kind of approval. That would not still the pendulum, but it would inject a new ground of repeatable certainty, that eventually join certain belief.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:52 pm

I can’t repeat this enough.

We need a new plan. Most of you don’t understand that everything is spirit. A child knows this for a fact.

To change everything, you need everyone.

That’s the way it works.
The purpose of life is to give everyone individually what they always want at the expense of no being - forever.

The biggest problem of life is the, “hey, I don’t want this to be happening” problem for everyone.

Welcome to thinking.
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Re: A look forward in hope

Postby Bob » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:43 am

Mad Man P wrote:ABZ... let me try again, with a bit more clarity.

You seem to be under the impression that there is a middle ground between the extremes that eliminates all conflict and suffering... where I am suggesting there may not be such a magical place.
I am using the extremes to showcase the problems unique and endemic to either side of the balance... and arguing that perhaps the best we can manage is to minimize the conflict and suffering... but never be rid of it entirely.

Once again, you use terminology like “all conflict and suffering” and “magical place” and oversee that each journey begins with a single step, every sea is made up of single drops, your lungs take in single breaths. That is the way of life. There is no way to eliminate all conflict and suffering, but there is a way to start. It begins with living mindfully, and interacting with people to find common goals, developing an understanding of how we see our world.

The magical place can be any moment of enchantment, but these are fleeting and pass. However, there is a way to live in which these moments surmount, and there is a way to appreciate them more, and share them with others. The more we can appreciate these moments, the more we are able to gain strength from them, be inspired by them, and learn. A steady drip can hollow the stone, and the more people embarking on such a mindful way of life the better.

Yes, there is a divide between extremes, and a pathway along which all wise men and women have advised us to go. It isn’t a knife edge, but a path of learning, enabling us to touch both sides without falling irretrievably into one extreme or the other. Sometimes more of one side is necessary, other times more of the other. It all has to do with the attitude we take on.

Mad Man P wrote:If that is true and we managed to find that knife's edge on which to balance... even then, there will be those that suffer and those who sympathise with those that suffer. They will wish to push for change, to alleviate that suffering... but where they push us motivated by good intentions, would objectively be an even worse hell, and then there will be a pendulum swing back, because yet more people will suffer and push for change... back and forward we'll go.

“For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.”… (Matth 25:35-36)

So you are saying this is causing “an even worse hell”? What world do you live in? What is your relationship with your fellow human beings, or to life generally? It just sounds to me that what you are saying is, “I am my own neighbour and me and mine are all I care for!” Of course, with that attitude humanity will disappear up its own a**hole, and good riddance. I just believe that people understand that they are not an island, and that they live as much from each other as from their own efforts, and that most people are grateful for that. This is something to build on.

Mad Man P wrote:I'm not arguing that we've found that knife's edge where we've minimized conflict and suffering and ought freeze the pendulum in place... and even if we did, circumstances change around us, meaning the goldilocks zone is likely a moving target. What am arguing however, is that mere conflict and suffering is not in and of itself an indication that we've messed things up... unless you believe that paradise on earth is possible.

What you are arguing is, “don’t start changing things, I’m doing okay with how it is!” If you don’t want to get up and make a difference, to help make it better, then of course everything that other people are trying becomes a threat to you. I think you know it too, but can’t as yet admit it.
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
When you are out of touch with reality you will easily embrace a delusion, and equally put in doubt the most basic elements of existence. If this reminds you of the mindset of the present day materialist science and philosophy establishments, as well as of the loudest voices in the socio-political debate, we should not be particularly surprised, since they show all the signs of attending with the left hemisphere alone. I live in the hope that that may soon change: for without a change we are lost.
McGilchrist, Iain . The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World (S.562). Perspectiva Press. Kindle-Version.
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Bob
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