## Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a nazi?

Moderator: Carleas

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Ecmandu wrote:Phyllo,

I read every post on ILP. Who are you on your high horse? Telling a person like me that I’m on mine?
You gotta have some standards.

If you call that "being on high horse" then so be it.
phyllo
ILP Legend

Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Wow, so Gloominary and Aegean also disagree about the genetics, since Gloominary claims that Jewish populations are particularly insular and don't mix with neighboring populations, and Aegean thinks Jewish people are absorbing neighboring populations like the alien from the movie Species. It seems pretty clear that you aren't talking about the same group, like maybe your hatred and suspicion of this abstract and inconsistently defined group doesn't really have anything to do with a group, so much as with the people who latch on to them as boogeymen.

Aegean wrote:Sometimes they claim to be a religion, other times that they are a race.

Or rather, sometimes people disparaging them claim that they're an ideology, and other times that they're a genetic line capable of inbreeding etc. You know Aegean, it's almost like you're playing with vagueness in order to remain obscure.

Aegean wrote:If people cannot even see or admit who dominates US political and cultural discourse, then nothing I can say will change their minds.
I wont even try. It would be a waste of my time.

Is it white people? They're almost all the consumers and almost all the producers, so it's probably white people.

Go ahead and show us that big open mind of yours.

phyllo wrote:Now it's "so what?"

By that I mean, what's the action that follows from that? We aren't CNN, we don't have people on staff or on call to rebut positions that need context and fact-checking. So, what do we do? I offered what I think follows from that (provide context, or ignore, or report). What are you saying follows?
User Control Panel > Board preference > Edit display options > Display signatures: No.
Carleas
Magister Ludi

Posts: 6105
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:10 pm
Location: Washington DC, USA

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

phyllo wrote:
I'm merely suggesting that if you were a black homosexual and came across a thread here entitled, "Discussion: blacks lack the intelligence of whites", or "Discussion: homosexuals are unnatural perverts", you might feel more chagrin that this is open to discussion than if you were not black or gay.
How little you understand me.

Of course my point to all objectivists, white supremacist nazis or otherwise is, "how little you understand yourself."
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

"Gail, it’s as if someone dared 2020 to get worse, and 2020 replied: 'Just try me.' Right now I’m just sitting on my porch, awaiting a plague of locusts." Bret Stephens

iambiguous
ILP Legend

Posts: 37209
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

iambiguous wrote:
phyllo wrote:
I'm merely suggesting that if you were a black homosexual and came across a thread here entitled, "Discussion: blacks lack the intelligence of whites", or "Discussion: homosexuals are unnatural perverts", you might feel more chagrin that this is open to discussion than if you were not black or gay.
How little you understand me.

Of course my point to all objectivists, white supremacist nazis or otherwise is, "how little you understand yourself."
So my suggestion that you misattribute some characteristics to me, only serves to confirm that you are correct about me.
phyllo
ILP Legend

Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

phyllo wrote:So my suggestion that you misattribute some characteristics to me, only serves to confirm that you are correct about me.

Nope, nothing new here.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

"Gail, it’s as if someone dared 2020 to get worse, and 2020 replied: 'Just try me.' Right now I’m just sitting on my porch, awaiting a plague of locusts." Bret Stephens

iambiguous
ILP Legend

Posts: 37209
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

iambiguous wrote:
phyllo wrote:So my suggestion that you misattribute some characteristics to me, only serves to confirm that you are correct about me.

Nope, nothing new here.
That's a good reason not to read my posts or to respond.
phyllo
ILP Legend

Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Carleas wrote:Wow, so Gloominary and Aegean also disagree about the genetics, since Gloominary claims that Jewish populations are particularly insular and don't mix with neighboring populations, and Aegean thinks Jewish people are absorbing neighboring populations like the alien from the movie Species. It seems pretty clear that you aren't talking about the same group, like maybe your hatred and suspicion of this abstract and inconsistently defined group doesn't really have anything to do with a group, so much as with the people who latch on to them as boogeymen.
Wow, indeed...your understanding is and was of a monolithic monstrosity.
You are totally indoctrinated.

Carleas wrote:Or rather, sometimes people disparaging them claim that they're an ideology, and other times that they're a genetic line capable of inbreeding etc. You know Aegean, it's almost like you're playing with vagueness in order to remain obscure.
Is Islam a race?
I am being very clear...only you want to remain in vagueness.
People want to remain on a very simple level, because this is more sophisticated. We are dealing with a very clever parasitical strategy, based on the manipulation of language and the concepts they refer to. Very few, on both sides of the debate, fully understand it.

See Schlomo and others on the matter of Jews as a race. There are many others, Jews predominately, because gentiles do not dare. You can do the research...'cause I do not care. You think in bad faith. There is no evidence, no argument, no reason, that will ever convince you away from your accepted 'we are all equal' ideology.
To think otherwise is, for you, a statement of violence and genocide.

Carleas wrote:Is it white people? They're almost all the consumers and almost all the producers, so it's probably white people.
There is no "white" race....no more than there is a black one, or a yellow one. Pigmentation is one trait, among many, that identifies species and sub-species, i.e., breeds, kinds, races...etc.
There are Indo-Europeans, Afro-Asiatic, Africans, Asians....
White, black beige are simplifications and part of the indoctrination you have surrendered to.
Europeans are not superior in processing and pattern recognition intelligence. The Asians are. This is not about supremacy.

The Polar Bear is not simply a white bear.
A Grizzly is not a Brown bear.
A black bear is another species = other than a polar bear - not only because its fur is another colouration.
An elephant is not a grey species.
What differentiates a panda from a koala is not its fur colouring alone.

Carleas wrote:Go ahead and show us that big open mind of yours.
Such sarcasm exposes stress.

I suspect you cannot explain how speciation or how intelligence evolves, given your views on uniformity.
Your well-informed, fair, enlightened, altruistic beliefs "debunk" evolution theory.
Congratulations.
Unless, of course, you want to explain why appearances do not matter, only when it comes to our species, and how intelligence evolved, at all, if it is evenly and fairly distributed in a population.
Were all species the product of nurturing, and social engineering, ro a willful agency?
If so say so. Admit it.

By the way...if this exchange did not involve you...you would be sending me a warning, and banning me.
This is how fair and open-minded and enlightened you truly are.
Why not just admit that you want to preserve your Americanised, melting pot, we are all equal under the law status quo, and live in peace?
Aegean
Philosopher

Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:36 pm

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Zero_Sum wants me to post this and says this will be his last farewell post on ILP.

Hello there everyone, I've been banned once again and without much explanation. It is clear to me that this forum is no longer a place of free-speech and free-expression. More likely I hurt somebody's feelings because in today's safe space world full of precious snowflakes rudeness, cynicism, vulgarity, or even aggressiveness has been made illegal into a thought crime.

Well congratulations, you finally got rid of the 'evil nazi' on ILP because I have no intentions whatsoever in returning to this place especially if I'm going to be banned everytime I make a post, hurt somebody's precious feelings, am vulgar, or say something that is categorically not within the mainstream viewpoint. You've won and I have decided to resign from this place never to return. For Promethean or Gloominary, if you wish to contact me private message Wendy where we'll figure something out. As for the rest of you miserable lot I will not miss you whatsoever, you deserve nothing but my utter hatred and contempt. Every single one of you deserve each other and I hope in the chaotic upcoming collapse of the United States or western civilization you all become consumed by the destructive fallout afterwards. This was my last attempt at trying to find a social media platform on the internet to socially interact and express myself, I'm done with social media on the whole internet altogether now never to return. It has all become just one safe space insane asylum.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.

WendyDarling
Heroine

Posts: 7651
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Not that my opinion matters, but I don't think Zero Sum was being insulting, certainly not more insulting than others are to him on a regular basis.

I hope he returns some time in the near future.

Gloominary
Philosopher

Posts: 2400
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Aegean, you're still arguing with memes about millennial SJWs. You're arguing against a straw version of a liberal, which should make you concerned that you aren't considering the best arguments for the positions you disagree with. I basically accept what appear to be your premises, and I still conclude that being a racist is at best factually wrong, and at worst morally wrong.

But here, I'm just pointing out the surface-level problem with your position that you don't seem to know whether you're talking about a religion or a race, and you switch between them when it's convenient. And now it looks like your racial metaphysics have deeper problems, since you reject whiteness as a coherent concept, but not jewishness? And then instead you want to talk about Europeans (population 741 million) and Asians (population 4.4 billion) as though those are comparably fine-grained classifications among humans, and we can just assume that the shape of the curve on any particular trait is roughly identical.

Just chronologically in your life, did you learn about biology first, or start being suspicious of Jews first? Did you come to your beliefs about Jews before all the very sophisticated thinkery you use to justify it, or were you a 'we are all equal' type until you learned you some semiotics and it just dawned on you: all the racist shit about Jews that people have been saying for centuries is actually very insightful social critique! I have a hard time believing that it went that way.
User Control Panel > Board preference > Edit display options > Display signatures: No.
Carleas
Magister Ludi

Posts: 6105
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:10 pm
Location: Washington DC, USA

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

This is how you show how intellectually dishonest you are.
But here, I'm just pointing out the surface-level problem with your position that you don't seem to know whether you're talking about a religion or a race, and you switch between them when it's convenient.
As if I did not make it clear...as if I said nothing at all. Yes...it is I who is confused. Ha!!!
Is Christianity a race? Is Islam a race? Is Hinduism a race? Then how is Judaism a race?
It emerges within a specific race and a tribe, the Semites, but then evolves...and Semites include Arabs. Are Arabs all Jews? Is an anti-Semite also anti-Islam?

You're indoctrinated into a way of thinking and cannot be bothered to even begin to question it. This is common in every age, across time and place.

You debunking Evolution Theory is a formidable feat of indoctrination.
Don't think you have an answer to the question:
How did intelligence evolve prior to civilization or in species other than humans
if it is evenly distributed, and a product of social nurturing? Is intelligence socially selected?
Maybe we can adopt Brian's bullshyte and claim that there are different kinds of intelligence.

Take care.
Aegean
Philosopher

Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:36 pm

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Maybe we can adopt Brian's bullshyte and claim that there are different kinds of intelligence.

I'm pretty sure the authors/editors of this page are feminized abrahamonihilistic leftist cucks without fathers who are conspiring with the zionists to invert the noetic flux into an absolute... but I'm not positive, so I figured I'd let you all look at it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_ ... elligences
promethean75
Philosopher

Posts: 3300
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:10 pm

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Rest assured. I consider you a genius with the use of 'nil'.
It placed you where you are.

I ,myself, am a genius at scratching my testicles and yawning at the same time. A rare and underappreciated talent.
Aegean
Philosopher

Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:36 pm

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

We may even say that everyone is intelligent at something, so the meaning of the term is rendered meaningless.

I only wish you would apply that genius when ti comes of Nietzsche's Will to Power.
There your "skepticism" and your nullifications stumble, and fall to their knees, in quiet, worship.
I bet this was effective with your inmates. You must have dazzled them with the nil.
Aegean
Philosopher

Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:36 pm

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

I ,myself, am a genius at scratching my testicles and yawning at the same time.

That would be bodily-kinesthetic intelligence, and there are exercises you can do to increase it further. Try standing on one foot and patting your head with the other hand while you do it.
promethean75
Philosopher

Posts: 3300
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:10 pm

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Fabulous.
You are a master at defining words out of existence, or reducing them to meaninglessness, to then declare philosophy at an end.
But no such displays with Will to Power. There you found nothing ambiguous, or subject to your powers of nullification.

Presumable will does not refer to yours, but god's, and power is through you, not for you.
Aegean
Philosopher

Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:36 pm

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

I bet this was effective with your inmates.

No, I kept the nachlass in my locker and never brought it to our study groups. Fritz is way beyond what is comprehensible to the inmates. We usually just discussed the philosophy of ice cube and lil' wayne.
promethean75
Philosopher

Posts: 3300
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:10 pm

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Carleas wrote:Gloominary, you left off the best bit:
Another study in the United States, from 2012, stated that 48% of Hindus had a household income of $100,000 or more, and 70% make at least$75,000, which is the highest among all religions in United States.
The Hindus are taking over!

1stly, Hindu American households are in part only so wealthy because they have the whole village living in one household.

2ndly, Hindu Americans don't have a meaningful presence in banking, media and politics the way Jewish Americans have.
Jewish Americans make up about 3% of America's population but are vastly overrepresented in America's academic, banking and political elite, whereas Hindu Americans make up less than one 1% of America's population and aren't anywhere near as overrepresented in America's banking and political elite, if at all.
Hindu Americans are at worst poor and at best nouveau riche, whereas Jewish Americans are paleo riche, part of America's aristocracy, its establishment.

3rdly, Jews are masters at blending into white populations while maintaining tribal allegiances, they've been doing it for millennia, Hindus haven't.
They're able to present their interests as if they're white/ordinary American interests, when they're not.

4thly, There is no antihinduism charge protecting Hindus from any and all criticism, but there is an antisemitism charge.

5thly, There are millions of Christian Zionists, there are no Christian Hinduists.

Lastly, Hindus aren't Hindu supremacists, they don't believe they're God's chosen people; have some messianic calling to dominate the world (in Judeo-Christian end times prophesy, God rules from Jerusalem in Israel), they're not as aggressive at propping themselves up.

More importantly, consider that the Jewish population is small, and disproportionately located in wealthy coastal cities that have a much higher median incomes and net worths that the average state or city. People concentrated there are likely to appear wealthier on average, but it's a statistical artifact.

They're overrepresented in urban areas because Jews, with their 110+ iQs (in addition to their penchant for nepotism and underhandedness), flourish in heavily urbanized environments, but does it matter what the reason is?
The fact remains they're vastly disproportionately wealthy, and so have an opportunity to vastly disproportionately shape America's academic, banking and political landscape, an opportunity they've demonstrably seized.

Also consider that the amount you're citing isn't anything like "dominant" or the "majority... of [US] wealth".

Per capita wealth is more important than total wealth in an important sense.
Middleclass households have little-no leftover time, energy, wealth and resources to devote to political life, whereas upperclass households have an abundance.
There's a tremendous difference in power between middle and upperclass, especially today, as the middleclass contracts in numbers and wealth while the upperclass expands in wealth.

Finally, consider the explanations for whatever part of the phenomenon remains after the considerations above. Do we posit a vast global conspiracy of Hindus plotting to take over the US? No, of course we don't. Why the difference?

It doesn't have to be a monolithic, closed conspiracy, it's a polylithic, open conspiracy.
Jews openly admit they push for policies favorable to their interests, and of course they do, every demographic except 21st century whites does.
Of course they want us to believe their interests couldn't possibly conflict with the interests of white or America as a whole, but obviously they some times do.
How could two or more peoples interests converge 100% of the time?
It's impossible.
The only question is, what degree of divergence between Jewish, white and unhyphenated American interests exists, not if there is any.

Do Jewish and white interests largely coincide?
Do Jewish and American interests largely coincide?
Arguably in many ways, they don't.

Jews are a minority, whites are the majority, and they've played a major if not the hand in making America more favorable to minority interests and less favorable to the majority
There are many people from both the right, left and center who've gone at lengths, risked being labeled an anti-Semite by powerful institutions, which's like being labeled a murderer or a rapist in today's political climate, to indicate when and where Jewish, white and unhyphenated American interests diverge.

Israel is a West Asian country.
The US is a North American country.
Many on the left, right and center have pointed out how Israel's interests have jeopardized America's interests, and how Israel lobbies hold tremendous sway on America's foreign policy.
Neoconservatism is factually, a predominantly Jewish movement.
About 90% of neoconservatives are Jews.
It was founded by Jews and through it they have shaped America's foreign policy tremendously and irrevocably in the 21st century.

Whites may have the majority of wealth, but we're not organized for our interests, we're not permitted to organize for our interests, in fact we're politically organized against our own interests, but Jews are heavily organized for theirs.
Last edited by Gloominary on Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:40 am, edited 10 times in total.

Gloominary
Philosopher

Posts: 2400
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Is it a religion or not a religion - well a hint might be that they really have a ministry of religious affairs!

See what sense you can make of it!!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return
Ecmandu
ILP Legend

Posts: 10640
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

phyllo
ILP Legend

Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

It’s about white supremacy —. Umm... I thought that was obvious.

My link isn’t about trying to condemn Jews, but Carleas brought up the point that people have been mixing up Judaism with Jewishness —- the link I gave is the best I could find, and it doesn’t really resolve the issue. It’s a good read though for that specific topic — ignore it if you want!
Ecmandu
ILP Legend

Posts: 10640
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Because this forum censors on the basis of what is said about them, and not about any other group. Perhaps the Muslims are currently another protected group.
Because it is at the core of Americanism and its projection of power across the globe.
Because Judeo-Christianity is the foundation of western psychology, and its current sense of identity.
Because it is at the source of corrupting language, triggering, and mass mind control.
Because criticizing Israel is now illegal in the US, and signing a paper agreeing not to, is necessary to become a member of the establishment.
Because if you do not understand this then you cannot understand the US and why it is hated by the rest of the world. You certainly will not understand Putin's alternative.

Shall I go on?
Aegean
Philosopher

Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:36 pm

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

promethean75 wrote:
I bet this was effective with your inmates.

No, I kept the nachlass in my locker and never brought it to our study groups. Fritz is way beyond what is comprehensible to the inmates. We usually just discussed the philosophy of ice cube and lil' wayne.
Well, you had so much in common.
They believed in god's absoluteness determining all, on average; you believe in the universe, and absolute order determining all.
And you were all innocent. Aren't all inmates innocent victims of da man, or the system, or racism, or conventional sexual hang-ups?

Your differences were a matter of interpretation.
Semantics, really.
Aegean
Philosopher

Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:36 pm

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Aegean wrote:Is Christianity a race? Is Islam a race? Is Hinduism a race? Then how is Judaism a race?

Also Aegean wrote:[Jews'] marriage practices has [sic] produced inbreeding - producing distinct physical characteristics and psychological attitudes - neurosis is one example.

You tell me Aegean. One the one hand, it's a religion, on the other, it has distinct inherited physical characteristics.

Aegean wrote:You debunking Evolution Theory is a formidable feat of indoctrination. Don't think you have an answer to the question: How did intelligence evolve prior to civilization or in species other than humans if it is evenly distributed, and a product of social nurturing? Is intelligence socially selected?

Again, it doesn't require debunking "Evolution Theory". Humans are a single species (people of all races can mate a produce fertile offspring), and whatever the genetic correlates of intelligence, we have very little understanding of what they are, how and why they contribute to intelligence, or how they're distributed in populations. We also know that, whatever else affects it, environment plays a large role, e.g. the Flynn Effect in the west over the past couple generations is largely attributable to the decrease in lead exposure. That tells us 1) a persons genetics provide at best a distribution of possible outcomes, and 2) whatever we think we know about genetics as it relates to intelligence is confounded by different environmental factors that are difficult if not impossible to control for. We also know that genetic variation within populations varies, e.g. Europeans have much less variation than Africans, so that, again, generalizations are confounded by differences in distribution within the population, and our attempts to make correlations between intelligence and ancestry are further confounded.

Moreover, intelligence is a complex trait, and genetic correlates with intelligence are also often associated with mental health problems and mental retardation. The same genes that boost IQ appear to also lower IQ, further confounding our attempts to locate them and undermining any claim that a race as a whole benefits from their presence. The fact that the same genes can create both high and low IQ suggests that race is a bad proxy for intelligence, and that we can't assume that markers of certain genetic heritage will reliably predict ability.

But beyond all this, we shouldn't be racists because society needs buy-in from its members. Racist policies that exclude people based on ham-handed categorizations, even if they were statistically justifiable, don't work in practice. The populations aren't sufficiently different to fully exclude certain members the way we exclude e.g. dogs. Moreover, a system that treats people equally under the law encourages participation and cooperation. Whatever a population's genetic potential, history has shown pretty clearly that cooperation and exchange dwarf the effects of individual IQ. A small and insular group of geniuses are less productive and less successful than a large group of middling intellects, because much innovation is stochastic, and there's more to be gained from specialization and comparative advantage than from a small pool of virtuoso talent.

Evolution doesn't do nearly as much work as you want it to, and it doesn't preclude either actual or practical equality. You're still arguing with caricatures, and it hurts your argument.
User Control Panel > Board preference > Edit display options > Display signatures: No.
Carleas
Magister Ludi

Posts: 6105
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:10 pm
Location: Washington DC, USA

### Re: Discussion: is Carleas secretly a white supremacist a na

Ecmandu
ILP Legend

Posts: 10640
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

PreviousNext