Meno_ wrote:Knowing without understanding", I have began to read jungs work and agree.....
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He is the best entry point his distinction between knowing and understanding is minimally maximized, so as to create an allusion to an illusive network of counter balances, very predictive of the coming of cyber learning
As if Leibnitz intended to promote a reintegrative effort, into the primal differentiation , but then maybe that was not HIS intention, but he was likewise prompted by some hidden preoccupation.
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'hope I am understanding you correctly and may respond accordingly/justly'
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Yes You are, I take Your closing and Your opening premise in simultainity, so as to enable to view the intervening as a comprehensive deontology, a de-differentiation or a re- integration, not necessarily based on the most inclusive probable set of facts, of the knowledge of them based on understanding.
Artimas wrote:Artimas -"Ultimately, self is the best method of learning and achieving understanding due to the "lead a horse to water not being able to make them drink it" analogy in terms of diversity in perception. And if you could make them drink it, it would be tyranny, force upon will.
This system is intricately designed and evolving as to prevent such easy loops from being exploited, one must work for what they truly want.
I love reading, it is just key to make sure you keep yourself in an unbiased state of thought/perception when doing so, most are not so they just believe and know rather than develop the tool necessary to think properly and dissect it themselves. They "take your word" for it instead of conscious investigation, when I say "they" I mean the masses, I am sure you are well aware though."
Artimas wrote:was this post I made I wanted an opinion of or to know if it is new or proven in psychology yet, I would like to write a paper and hope to be the first to start this as a theory if it hasn’t been understood or written about before in this fashion.
It’s a theory of why we have the unconscious/subconscious and why we are an infinite to be understood.
“Is this anything good or verifiable or new? My take in this present moment of how it all functions of which there will be more to add and be expounded upon, of that I have no doubt.
A priori knowledge is at an infinite amount of which is biologically integrated into the dna and of which builds the psyche, the present a posteriori( also contributes through present/current environment and experience of which builds or shapes the ego/provokes instinct. A priori exists integrated into psyche by and through the unconscious and subconscious of which was built of that same infinite a posteriori in one and all ancestries past(s) before one is conscious or has an ability to understand and express such consciousness/understanding upon the world.
In simpler terms or through an attempted expression/example: An existential crisis is what it is, due to an individual being an infinite amount of possibilities of both past and future confined to and in a present moment of which causes the individual to lose track or gain track of who they are as self and their suppressed being, dependent upon their attribution of value to future or past through fear/blame or acceptance/gain.
The subconscious has no differentiation between time and so it is built off of an infinity of both past and future possibilities to the conscious (understanding) mind which presents the illusion of being confined to past, present or future but in reality the individual is all three due to their psyche not being able to differentiate and being built from an infinity of objective unconscious/subconscious experiences, a sought possibility of which may seem imaginative is a possibility of which the steps do not appear due to the illusion of value attribution/satisfaction. When one understands they are the infinity of both past, present and future the will becomes free from this causal reaction of the past.
‘A man must become nothing, to become something’
In this becoming nothing one may glimpse everything.
To be or understand nothing is to see and be everything for possibilities even if seeming like imaginative impossibilities, are ladders to be climbed. What seems like imagination is due to the staircase of understanding and it’s steps being longer than what one may see or that one may value less stressful/more satisfactory in their present moment, so a very higher up understanding/step and having to be stressfully climbed possibility seems like an impossibility at the sacrifice of value for the future for value in the present.
The illusion of satisfaction/value attribution which is from a lesser point of understanding.
Being controlled by past to casually enjoy fruits of the present:
“Less work in the present moment for more value in the present but for less value in the future”
Being controlled by the future, for one may deem that the present lacks fruits/value from the past:
“More work in the present at the cost of struggle and acceptance of pain, for more value in the future”.
The mind is conditioned by a posteriori until one understands the implications and intricacies of their own consciousness and makes a choice and sacrifice to pursue being fully conscious through a priori.
Some examples that there is a non differentiation between time of, in and through the subconscious aspects of reality could be shown as instinct, intuition(future), dreams(past or future), guilt(past), etc.”
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I am taking liberties here, my sin, but it has affinity to making conscious that which I have dreadfully neglected, sorry for that hope not to forge an overly negative impression.
Nevertheless, its not too late to explore this in reference to the overall topic , and not the authorship, or it's authentic referential modality, since then, it would negate the intention. of it's psychic state.
I ran out of time now, but will try to get back to it shortly._______________
Artimas wrote:The unconscious aspects (change and unconscious reactions) of the world and universe happened, of which brought natural selection and consciousness from what could be considered a form of natural selection, if the natural selection of natural selection did not happen, there would be no natural selection on Earth, no consciousness which would mean no Neitzche to be able to self propel himself through, with and for identity and perhaps no Neitzche or life at all.
I am not arguing that we have not or do not self propel with our consciousness, in fact I argue for that aspect being real and I associate that aspect of consciousness with 'free will' or our own individual unique abilities to attribute values and then pursue those values.
What I am trying to get at is, Neitzche existed within that system but also attached to that system, the natural selection of which is earthly and the natural selection of which is cosmic that brought an earthly version of it. Neitzche is directly connected or plugged into all of that unconscious experience or reacting of matter, previous to himself and not only that but he is embedded with such and I believe that is what the unconscious mind is or where it comes from, from an experience not known or understood but consciousness inverted from subconsciousness due to evolving further complexity and we may seek to learn of the unconscious aspects that brought us forth while also being embedded with such.
Which would mean the "imagination" should be examined more thoroughly and not so easily dismissed, what is imaginative only seems imaginative or fantasy due to our lack of an understanding of the path that leads to whatever is imagined itself. Think of how everyone said flying wouldn't happen but it did, that could be one example out of many in history. The neitzche we know today, used his consciousness to formulate his positions, which I respect and agree with but neitzche came from something external to himself while also being himself due to his consciousness. He was a byproduct of natural selection, we all are. Neitzche then even if not having any direct experience before his birth of which was a path of experience itself that lead up to his existence, may now go and see or consciously understand such path of experience(history and ancestry) which could be considered a form of 'memory'.
He is both attached and embedded with the path of experience of which are the different layers of the conscious mind, attached via multiple strings to different layers or eras of evolutionary experiencing.
The millions of years of evolution that went on before what we consider 'life' (the unconscious aspect) is integrated into our being and why we have why appear to be separated but are overlapping layers of mind, due to different eras of experience itself evolving inevitably through trial and error.
Meno_ wrote:Artimas wrote:The unconscious aspects (change and unconscious reactions) of the world and universe happened, of which brought natural selection and consciousness from what could be considered a form of natural selection, if the natural selection of natural selection did not happen, there would be no natural selection on Earth, no consciousness which would mean no Neitzche to be able to self propel himself through, with and for identity and perhaps no Neitzche or life at all.
I am not arguing that we have not or do not self propel with our consciousness, in fact I argue for that aspect being real and I associate that aspect of consciousness with 'free will' or our own individual unique abilities to attribute values and then pursue those values.
What I am trying to get at is, Neitzche existed within that system but also attached to that system, the natural selection of which is earthly and the natural selection of which is cosmic that brought an earthly version of it. Neitzche is directly connected or plugged into all of that unconscious experience or reacting of matter, previous to himself and not only that but he is embedded with such and I believe that is what the unconscious mind is or where it comes from, from an experience not known or understood but consciousness inverted from subconsciousness due to evolving further complexity and we may seek to learn of the unconscious aspects that brought us forth while also being embedded with such.
Which would mean the "imagination" should be examined more thoroughly and not so easily dismissed, what is imaginative only seems imaginative or fantasy due to our lack of an understanding of the path that leads to whatever is imagined itself. Think of how everyone said flying wouldn't happen but it did, that could be one example out of many in history. The neitzche we know today, used his consciousness to formulate his positions, which I respect and agree with but neitzche came from something external to himself while also being himself due to his consciousness. He was a byproduct of natural selection, we all are. Neitzche then even if not having any direct experience before his birth of which was a path of experience itself that lead up to his existence, may now go and see or consciously understand such path of experience(history and ancestry) which could be considered a form of 'memory'.
He is both attached and embedded with the path of experience of which are the different layers of the conscious mind, attached via multiple strings to different layers or eras of evolutionary experiencing.
The millions of years of evolution that went on before what we consider 'life' (the unconscious aspect) is integrated into our being and why we have why appear to be separated but are overlapping layers of mind, due to different eras of experience itself evolving inevitably through trial and error.
I think we are on the right path, and the two door scenario so apropos within Your description here. In that sense, the first door is simply and ultimately natural, it is that which has to open up in the same way that god declares I am who I am.
The second door changes the motive. It no longer requires being to be perfectly identifiable , it's essence breaks into the other less perfect realm, so that it can cone alive, and perceive itself only in the epoch of determination. It is determined to change, the change it inevitable, but strangely prophetically marking an ambiguity of more complexity through ongoing an compelling differentiation within different layers of interchange.
The mirror exemplifies change, and seeks emulation as a way to generate more time , through more spatial overlap. Space can not operate as time , creating illusive continuum through disconnection, as time can, it hasn't overlap into other spatial areamgements to create the sense of movement through a time , that such superimposition
has created. Space and its various configurations are primary modes of differentiation, breaking up conscious manifestation. Into the quality of perceiving .
Time assumes a secondary function , contorting even to semblance by superposition of cut up engrams which have somehow been scripted unto a primordial substance. This substance is harmonic, and the calculus of differences of multiple fed back integrations, determine the passage of it's essential elements, as Leibnitz pointed out .
The shadow dreams, haunted by a necessity, a decisiveness, to avoid a transcendental chase, where the hunter become hunted.
Haunt is descriptive of a shadow world of twilight and dawn where the spirits , unconsciously find receptacles of anguish and delirium, of terror and extasis. It comesnfromntje very depths of archaic consciousness.
Meno_ wrote:There is such complexity but so little time to realize it, therefore reductive minimilization, short -cutting. The beats use of cutting reality is a manifestation of complexity within the process You describe well, above. In fact , Sassure, and modern thought well note this. Imagination, the ima go, is a retrofitted notion, for a backward notion of this process, of a very drastic change in logic.
The change came suddenly with the cogito ergo sum pregnant with the esse est percipii, where previously, this understanding could not be explained to medieval philosophy.
Philosophy, ever metaphysical , always relies on the imagination, from which and off which logical syntax tries to develop from. The metamorphosis of Narcissus is an extremely strong metaphor , underlying knowledge, rather simple , but really with the problem preexisting in both worlds, and connected by two not a single door.
The above I admit is a prefabrication around whose skeleton I will attempt to get involved by Your comments here, as well to rejoin the philosophic forum on free will.
Meno_ wrote:To the aforementioned skeleton , the image still pretty pronounced in my mind, little cam be added, the basic stiff is probably enough, to evoke this retro fitted co sciousness of what You call naturally selected natural selection , where
on backward look, the imagination can and does elaborate, embellish, by virtue of the missing links while looking back into the processes of integration betweem
image and thought. That the process is goal oriented by virtue of some change , is verified by Leibnitz' integral quantification , leading to curved space elucidated by Einstein.
That it is so, primarily was not realized by the geometers, infinity of the spjwricallu curved earth was the beginning, where really, there was for a very long time no reason to reject the notion of dropping off when coming to the end of what could be expected to be perceived.
The imagination was for a long time one dimensional, auditory-literal, you saw what you perceived, what you heard from what they thought you.
Isolation was in fact preferred, because of the paradoxical nature of absolute identity, through which a pre existent object could transpire or transcend it'self through others who shared every objective .
Mystical hermetic philosophy is still present in hermeneutics, its still present as a thema causa. and it has retained its qualitative necessity from Plato's paradox particularly through Meno. I guess it was a.conscious decision on my part to choose that name.
Looking back, the advance to the naturalistic fallacy, coming much later, of a Kantian affirmation of the equal validity of a 'should' type proposition with a factual 'is' type, is beginning to haunt many forms of epistemology.
Lets give one example.
Let's say, the nuclear miracle comes close to throw a fast ball and reduce the distinction between the ideas that the nuclear invention lead to a good thing, and the opposing idea that it will eventually lead to a less optimistic evaluation of it, coinciding with Hobbes' negative view of the formation of the social co tract, and man will misadapt the invention toward self destruction rather them self betterment.
This view has more.resonance when the question of existential fear is entered into the equation.
It goes to argue that the loss of faith accompanying the death of God, will instill more, not less fear and uncertainty into man, having the capacity to St and on his own, without feeling cut off from god , and as am extension, extending goodness through god to his fellow man.
Man will more.likely to continue to objectify each other, losing the touch with which and through which, they can experience each other, even at the cost.of subjugation, through ideal objects. The absolute objective being unknown , a mystery, shrouded but effective in holding this holistically bound creation together.
Another source of reasoning comes not merely from seeing the image of the simulation of god, but through the use of the human mind. extending through artificial intelligence, of actually simulating reality at will.
Something has.to replace god, and science in its absolute infancy, is a precarious creating force.
Infancy, since the question answered is overwhelming in am indivisible indubidable affirmative that science must have bore fruit many places, at many times in this infinitum of universes, and this one we live in is no exception. Therefore , we place way too much value on science, and too little on what.went on before it and none of all on what will happen after it, if there is an after.
The reason I say that is not that I have seen Mad Max too many times, but lets.face it, there will come a time where the application will overcome . when the Hunter will become hunted, and AI will destroy those who think their mind is better equipped to handle humankind then that intelligence , which for the most.part, has lost.touch almost.near.absolutely with those, whose programming has become irrelevant to the objective toward which and by which, man's survival can be extended.yet a bit.
That this is coming soon. has also been predicated in a reasonable way.
Now I'm coming to Your very interesting concept of selecting naturally the natural selection of determined courses of evolution.
If it is safe.to say that.Nature works absolutely on the level of absolute sustenance of Being, then that Absolute is a built in guarantee of imminent guarantee for the survival of.Humanity, and the idea of transcendence will be based.merely on a singular images of certain mystical and religiously inspired visions. The capacity to transcend the apparent instability of a singularly envisioned image, then, can connect.with the actual unity within two contradictory forma within and without the same eigenblick, or instant(for eternity singularly is but an immeasurable instant In the curviture of reality, the ultimate reduction unto a undifferentiable formal difference, as it approaches absolute limits.
That this idea , say in a million years, will become so politically and psychologically dangerous, for reasons that existence will be totally nihilized. where absolute fear will totally neutralize any meaningful effort to create and recreate within the most far off image of.simulation, ; this Nature will disallow.
Meno_ wrote:Nature does not destroy itself, cosmological my, her self.destruction is evident through observations of black hole processes and star explosions . yet again the constant
reorganization is a given, because She is here, and if the above constant regeneration, not in a partial way but in accordance to the absolute simulation. then Her (The Universal) nature cam not allow an absolute break up or disintegration .
For a long time and even now, maybe, I suggested that universal consciousness consists only virtually as a single point in eternity, and as senseless it appears, it may be the very absolute pin, holding all the near infinite existential layers together.
The metaphoric realm of angels have.long held this: Angels dancing on the top of a pin. I am not claiming originality, and it would be interesting g to find out who and how came up with a cosmological reductive absolute in this manner. I will try to go d out and get back to You shortly.
surreptitious75 wrote:Everything that has and is and will be is contained within Existence which is a single state - though one that is in a constant state of change
We are but only one point on this spectrum and from a purely objective perspective are no more or no less important than any other one is
We occupy a temporary point in space and in time and then we will be no more just as we were nothing before we came into existence
There are some universals - something must always exist and everything is in eternal motion are probably the two most fundamental
There will come a time when there will be no evidence we existed - so life is temporary and death is permanent is another universal
Death is not a negative - that is how it is almost universally perceived because of fear of the unknown - but is actually the end of all suffering which is a positive
The thing to be feared is life as fear can only be experienced by a functioning mind and when the mind can function no more it is the beginning of eternal peace
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