historical thinking within society/government/economics

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

historical thinking within society/government/economics

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:00 pm

as we ponder the world and our place in it... we
are faced with issues and problems of philosophy,
history, science, biology, sociology, and political theory/science....

but let us put historical thinking into a current political problem....

Bloch in his book, "The Historians Craft" mentions this event...
the ''Memoirs'' of someone named Marbot, who claims to
have crossed the Danube River in a flood to save some
prisoners of the Austrians...however a review of historical
records including Napolean own Correspondence, shows us
that this heroic tale to be false...the use of historical records
from both sides, the French and Austrians, show us that
Marbot created this event to build up some sort of illusion
of being a hero...

We too can use historical thinking to challenge and dispute
other false claims...for example the great lie.. the 2020 stolen
election...there is virtually no evidence supporting the great lie..
but ask one who believes in the great lie to offer up evidence
and you get, the courts lied, the deep state lied, it was covered
up by communist/liberals... but in fact, no actual evidence...
and a great deal of evidence showing that in fact, there
was no stolen election of 2020... there were several recounts
within several states, including hand recounts in Arizona, Wisconsin,
and Pennsylvania showed that the initial counts were in fact correct..

But tell that to a MAGA and on they go about corrupt elections,
deep state malfeasance, corrupt court system... which are
serious charges, but using the example set by history in which
we must have some factual evidence to prove such corruption,
we find that there is no such evidence....the MAGA party
couldn't find one judge in over 60 cases who would hold to
the charges including many judges appointed by IQ45
and including the SCOTUS...

as for me, the question doesn't end with this, I see
this as a beginning question...

Why is it so important to hold onto obvious falsehoods
like the ''big lie?'' What drives people to hold onto patiently
false statements? As I am an atheist, I will include belief in
god as another ''belief into a patiently false belief'' into this mix...

but as I said, it is an opening statement, not a closing statement....

Now as a good historian, I need evidence of some sort...
where is the evidence for the 2020 stolen election?
for example, in D'Souza's documentary, he claimed
that 2,000 people were hired as "mules" by unnamed
nonprofits-dubbed stash houses, to conduct "ballot trafficking"
I.E. stuffing numerous drop boxes with potentially fake absentee ballots...

and here we have potential for evidence, which people, which
non-profits, where were the "stash" houses, if this were true,
then the numbers in said recounts would not have match up...
but we now that the numbers in the various recounts do match up...
part of his claim involving the use of "mules" requires the use
of cell phone location data showing these "mules" using these drop boxes...
the use of "Geo tracking" that is used in this cell phone location data,
has errors of feet, but that doesn't tell us that any such mule system
was actually in use.... how does this evidence presented to us,
give us any understanding of the questions involved, who were these
"mules", where were the alleged "stash" houses, where are the ballot boxes
that were allegedly "stuff"...you know basic evidence that must be
presented to us to be able to verify that evidence...and therein
lies on the great problems of the holders of the stolen election,
where is the evidence that can be verified? Obviously, the 60
plus courts didn't believe in that evidence, or was shown that evidence..
but suddenly we will be presented with corrupt courts again, and
so, where is the evidence for that? It is assumed because
the courts didn't find a stolen election, that the courts must
be corrupt... that some deep state, which hasn't been proven
to exists, wants to deny IQ45 a victory... it isn't said why the deep
state so hates IQ45, but I can understand it if they do....

and therein lies the problem with all the 2020 stolen elections
nuts, with every question, we return to the exact same
statements... deep state, corrupt courts, ballot harvesting,
invalid count of voting... and every single statement
needs some proof of some kind...proof we are never shown,
but we are told exists somewhere on planet earth...

as this is an opening statement, one might claim that historical
methods are not very useful...for example, you can't "prove" by
historical methods that Julius Caesar existed....and in fact,
I can prove Caesar existed far better than I can prove
the 2020 stolen election lie.. I have accounts of Caesar life,
written by multiple people, I have accounts written by
Caesar himself.. so beyond documents, I also have
monuments dedicated to Caesar, I have buildings built
by Caesar with his name on them.. I have documents
written by non-romans that discusses Caesar....

As I said, I can prove Caesar existed far better than I can prove
the "big lie".. given the amount of physical evidence that
shows us that Caesar existed and was this tall, balding,
like to chase after other officers' wife's, human being...
and these documents were written during the time of
Caesar's lifetime... they were contemporary writings...
and might say, but they were "fake news" written to fool us,
and there was no such person as Caesar...and like the promoter
of the "big lie", you have passed from being rational to being
incoherent, ridiculous, absurd....

and one might say, Kropotkin, you are beating a dead horse...
if this was actually about the "big lie" you would be correct,
but the fact is, this is about beliefs that we hold on a daily basis...
I hold to liberal values...but why? what is the evidence for those values?

that there are certain ideas about human beings that are inescapable
and must be taken into account in every single theory about
who we are and what it means to be human....

that we come from evolution cannot be denied... which means
we are creatures formed from evolution, millions of years of evolution....
we are social creatures.. we not only depend on others, but we must
in fact, have others in our lives...every single facet of our lives is
predicated on us being social with other human beings...
in being feed, to being educated, to having health care, to
building shelter, to having love, esteem, safety/security..
every single aspect of Maslow's pyramid requires other human being
for us to achieve that physical, psychological, mental, emotional
needs we all, as human beings have...

and where does all this lead us to?

the fact is, I have evidence for my beliefs in evolution, and
in the sociability of human beings, and in my liberals beliefs/values....
I am not assuming that I have evidence, I have evidence, factual,
take it into court evidence....and this is where, the believers
in the "big lie" and in god, don't have factual evidence, to take into court evidence...

as I have said before, this is an opening statement, not a closing

Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
Posts: 11247
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Return to Current Events

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users