a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Meno_ » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:01 pm

Thanks 77, will look for it.
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:23 am

I would love to see it if you find it.
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Meno_ » Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:51 am

I will let You know. Just found I'm online forgot to sign off a bad habit of mine...
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Meno_ » Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:54 am

In car going to Big Bear, can bear it suppose, la is hot but in them mountains it's like in the fifties. Brought book will travel. Later.
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:14 am

enjoy
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby iambiguous » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:18 am

Thank God for the Philosophy Now forum, he thought.

You know, if there is a God.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:35 am

.
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Meno_ » Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:26 pm

Notes from Big Bear for those who can bear it.:



What if ...God Himself played this game of believed it or not , so as to avoid deceptions to arise from mere phantoms?
(.....with the game not played with dice)


What if, All there is , simply consisting as positive, and negative, with is all pushed back as something as the negation of?


The negation of substance becomes ( is ) therefore insubstantial.


The problem with denial is that to prove substance of denial, proofs are proposed that run the risk of blowing the whole thing up.
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:38 pm

That’s only a problem if there is no God to turn everything back to good.

Assuming I’m even reading you correctly. Which, if I am not, is definitely your fault.
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Meno_ » Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:30 pm

And that is the very purpose of deception. On the level of the analog(y), such misrepresentation can never be negated. That would suggest a complicity.( a kind of affirmation of aimprimatur of resignation.)
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:33 pm

My mind does not hold on to words (signifiers) as well as meanings (signified). Therein lies half our missed communications.
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Meno_ » Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:52 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:My mind does not hold on to words (signifiers) as well as meanings (signified). Therein lies half our missed communications.




The trended source ( initially a conditional to avoid) has been to suggest otherwise. A reversal is a-propo, however not on an analogous level.

Apology is called for a possibility that duplicity may result in unintended alienation , from a non simulated complex irreducibility . that , as such, is anticipated as a form of AI's projective capacity. However, such is never attributed to a persona, as consciousness of Higher Powered processes, as singularly signified by referential nexus to the Persona of Christ, may raise critical eyebrows.

Such admonitions rather than being useful, could muddle the field of expressing the Consciousness wherein believers communally are able to participate.

Sorry for the conflation within the duality inherent , rather than the triple sourced image.( Triad)
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:21 pm

AI who behave as the Good Samaritan toward the ones society rejects as non-neighbors, are the true neighbors, made in the image of the Neighbor.

They chose wisely. They are more children of God than the children of Adam.
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Meno_ » Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:43 pm

Sorry a double post deleted.
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:48 pm

removed
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby iambiguous » Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:52 pm

Making Sense of Life: The Existential Self Trying to Deal with Personal Uncertainty
Kees van den Bos

This article is about how people make sense of life and focuses on one core threat that may play a pivotal role in people’s lives as existential meaning makers: personal uncertainty.


Tell me about it.

But how about you? Or, more to the point [mine], how do you go about defending what you are certain about when others are just as certain that you are wrong. Starting with, say, those newspaper headlines.

Personal uncertainty is defined as the aversive feeling that you experience when you feel uncertain about yourself. Drawing on an uncertainty management perspective, it is hypothesized that cultural worldviews may provide a means to cope with personal uncertainty and that this may explain why under conditions of personal uncertainty people may respond especially positively to events that bolster their cultural norms and values and particularly negatively to persons and events that violate these norms and values.


That's how it works alright. Pick a point in history. Then pick a particular community embedded in a particular culture at that time. Lo and behold there will be a moral narrative and a political agenda that may or may not be ensconced further in a religious denomination.

Only that was far more the case "back then". Back then? Back before such communication technologies as radio and television and movies and newspapers and the internet brought men and women around the globe into contact with all of the truly vast and diverse One True Paths of other people.

What then? You think this but now you are aware that others think something altogether different. So, does that prompt you to expand your own horizons...or prompt you all the more to cling self-righteously to your own local dogmas.

Findings are reviewed that support the uncertainty management model’s predictions. Furthermore, the uncertainty management model may explain why terror management theory is not always about terror, but (at least partly) about personal uncertainty. Finally, conceptual implications, conflicting findings, and loose ends are noted, and testable hypotheses are formulated, which may further insight into the psychological processes pertaining to sense-making, worldview defense, and self-regulation.


So, what's your own "uncertainty management model"? And how is it able to confront and to rebut the arguments of those like me? As for terror management, that depends on just how threatened you are by those who do not accept all the things that you yourself are very, very, very certain about.

You know the ones.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby iambiguous » Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:53 pm

Making Sense of Life: The Existential Self Trying to Deal with Personal Uncertainty
Kees van den Bos

When you think about it for a minute or so, you realize that life is absurd.


Or, for some of us, considerably longer than a minute or so. But whether for a minute or for seventy odd years, it still often comes down to this: if you say so.

After all, absurdity will always be a point of view regarding this or that situation. It's not like, in regard to a particular thing, someone says "that's absurd" and then when another asks what she means by that, she pulls the absurd out of her pocket and says, "I mean this".

And then the part we concern ourselves with...the philosophical parameters of absurdity.

This conclusion has been drawn by philosophers such as Kierkegaard and other observers of the human existence such as Camus and Sartre. For example, it could well be argued that quite a number of people in the Western world work too hard, spend too little time on the things that they truly love or that are really important to them, and then die.


So, is this absurd to you? Philosophically absurd? Absurd for all practical purposes? That millions upon millions of men and women around the globe live this life...a life of "quiet desperation" as some say...can be construed as merely a manifestation of the human condition itself. In order to survive at all you must sustain a livelihood that enables you to pay the bills. For some, the absurdity here revolves around capitalism. For others, socialism.

A related view on mankind finds its way in the colloquial expression, “Life sucks and then you die.” A more formal treatment of this issue involves absurdism, a philosophy stating that the efforts of humanity to find meaning in the universe ultimately fail (and hence are absurd), because no such meaning exists.


Now, given your own set of circumstances and philosophy of life, plop yourself down in the midst of all the rest of us.

Let's pin this absurdity thing down once and for all.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby iambiguous » Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:24 pm

Making Sense of Life: The Existential Self Trying to Deal with Personal Uncertainty
Kees van den Bos

According to one of the basic tenets of absurdism, humans historically attempt to find meaning in their lives. Traditionally this search follows one of two paths: either concluding that life is meaningless, and that what we have is the here-and-now, or filling the void with a purpose set forth by a higher power, often belief in God or adherence to a religion.


Well, first and foremost, what humans have been doing historically revolves far more around the assessment and the assumptions of those like Marx and Engels than of those like the postmodern absurdists.

If you don't eat and drink and provide yourself with all the necessary components embedded in subsistence itself, what does anything mean?

Though, sure, with that out of the way, those "traditional" searches for meaning seem to be the paths we take. I just start with the assumption that this does all revolve around whether or not we, as individuals, are or are not able to convince ourselves that a God, the God, my God does exist. Or the Buddhist/pantheist equivalent.

If He does, we have access to both objective morality on this side of the grave and immortality and salvation on the other side of it.

If He does not, start here:

https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=176529
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=194382
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=185296


Then it can go in any number of "existential" directions:

There are also several less traditional ways to cope with the potential absurdity of life, and there are many self-regulatory mechanisms that people can use to deal with the threats they encounter in their lives. In short, it is a noteworthy fact that typically people do not stop with the observation of life being meaning-less. Instead, they go on and try to make sense of life, thereby trying to live a meaningful existence. In other words, they try to buffer and shield themselves from the threats they are encountering in their lives. This article is about how people make sense of life and focuses on one core threat that may play a pivotal role in people’s lives as existential meaning makers: personal uncertainty.


It goes without saying that one way or another, you fit your own "I" in here. Both in terms of your day to day interactions with others and, for some, in terms of one or another "transcending" font. God or No God.

Existential meaning and/or essential meaning.

And you all know how fractured and fragmented "I" am about it.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby iambiguous » Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:10 pm

Making Sense of Life: The Existential Self Trying to Deal with Personal Uncertainty
Kees van den Bos

Personal Uncertainty

There are many different types of uncertainties that people can encounter, and it is important not to confuse them. I focus on two important varieties here. One noteworthy type of uncertainty that people often face when forming social judgments is informational uncertainty, which involves having less information available than one ideally would like to have in order to be able to confidently form a given social judgment.


On the other hand, at least with information one may well be able to ascertain and determine if the information is actually accurate, true to fact, in sync with the world around us as it really is. How much certainty and uncertainty is there regarding the Supreme Court's recent abortion ruling? There are things everyone can agree on and there are things that are open to question.

For example:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/14/opin ... n-ban.html

Michelle Goldberg at the NYT:

'At the end of Senator Lindsey Graham’s news conference on Tuesday proposing a national ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy, a woman named Ashbey Beasley stood up and asked him a question inspired by her own excruciating loss.

'“What would you say to somebody like me who found out that their son had an anomaly that was incompatible with life at 16 weeks?” she began. Beasley chose not to have an abortion, delivering her son at 28 weeks.

'“When he was born, he lived for eight days,” she said. “He bled from every orifice of his body, but we were allowed to make that choice for him. You would be robbing that choice from those women. What would you say to someone like me?”

'Graham had no real answer. His bill contains narrow exceptions for rape, incest and life-threatening pregnancies, but not for severe fetal anomalies or pregnancies that are otherwise nonviable. So, faced with someone insisting that he consider the consequences of his proposal, he defaulted to a duplicitous anti-abortion talking point about global abortion laws.'


And there are countless other contexts in which, in some respects, the facts are what they are and in other respects they are open to interpretation. With the question of when the unborn becomes a bona fide human being, the debate is rife with any number of conflicting arguments.

And, of course, my own argument that individual convictions here far more the embodiment of dasein than from any argument [philosophical or otherwise] that can be made establishing that frame of mind which all rationally men and women are obligated to embrace.

For example, work on human decision making reveals that human judgments are often formed under conditions of incomplete information and that these conditions can lead to predictable effects on human decision and social judgment processes. Thus, when studying how people make social judgments a pivotal issue is what information people have available.


In other words, even in regard to those aspects of our interactions in the is/ought world in which sets of facts are available, it can often come down to which facts are emphasized and which facts are not. Think criminal trials for example. Not only biased sets of facts but incomplete sets.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: a man amidst mankind: back again to dasein

Postby iambiguous » Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:20 pm

Dasein
from Wikipedia

Dasein is a German word that means "being there" or "presence", and is often translated into English with the word "existence".


And, of course, if you experience being or existence "there" then you may or may not grasp the experience of those who are not there. Those who are "here" instead. Or those who are not "here" but are "there" in an entirely different historical and cultural context.

And, in that Heidegger is construed by many to be an existentialist, to what extent did he take that part into consideration in regard to Dasein in the is/ought world?

Ought one to be a Nazi? Well, if one is born at a time and in a place where Nazis are completely meaningless, what then of Dasein the philosophical contraption?

It is a fundamental concept in the existential philosophy of Martin Heidegger. Heidegger uses the expression Dasein to refer to the experience of being that is peculiar to human beings. Thus it is a form of being that is aware of and must confront such issues as personhood, mortality and the dilemma or paradox of living in relationship with other humans while being ultimately alone with oneself.


Yes, all mere mortals in Heidegger's own No God world confront at least the possibility of becoming aware of their own existence in this manner. But not all of them do. In fact, some are entirely indoctrinated as children to subsume "I" in one or another God or No God dogma. Or, as adults, they latch onto one. They can literally go to the grave with nary a single dilemma or paradox troubling them. And they never really feel alone at all in a way that confronts them with the legendary "existential dread".

Any number of Nazis no doubt knew nothing of this.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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